|
|
Post by JoJo on Apr 14, 2006 17:50:38 GMT -5
From the Nov '66 Beatles Monthly magazine, seems that Mike McCartney gave Paul a collection of Alice in Wonderland statues, with which Paul decorated his garden.. It may be time to discuss the Ted Goranson theories.. At the GeoKabbalitter site is information that shows the following new-to-the-public things:
* John’s songs from Sgt Pepper are copied from Dylan’s Tamborine Man
* Help from my Friends and Hey Jude, are inspired by Lord Buckley routines (which are on this site)
* (This is the biggie) the White Album was built in Rishikesh around the Tarot and Alice in Wonderland as one piece.
* It all was inspired by John‘s tripping on The Magus, (and Paul’s later tripping on the Ubu plays).
I sent Ted this scan, (we have talked a bit) I don't think he placed the statues' appearance this early. (I may be mistaken)  He discusses it at length in various usenet posts, here is one. All his posts on rec.music.beatles: LINK |
|
|
|
Post by TotalInformation on Apr 14, 2006 19:10:13 GMT -5
Now, did Mike (or whomever) give the statues to JPM in June for his brithday? Is this an old item for the Nov 66 issue? Or did someone else place the statues there the month JPM died, and if so why?
This scan is very interesting as well b/c it indicates the working title of "The Family Way" was apparently "All in Good Time," the name of the stage production.
Also notice that JPM's songs are the most popular in that poll.
|
|
|
|
Post by JoJo on Apr 14, 2006 20:36:17 GMT -5
As a birthday present, hmm I'd say that's a good call. I'm beginning to think if there were plans for an Alice theme, it had its genesis with these statues from Mike. They show up on a single sleeve a few years later:  |
|
|
|
Post by lili on Apr 15, 2006 7:21:35 GMT -5
Those statues are creepy looking.  I've been staying out of this for a few weeks, so I almost posted about Martha being Bill's dog.  It seems that Paul took pride in his garden. I have photos of Bill from 1967/68 where it still looks kept up. After he married Linda, he let everything at Cavendish go to hell. I have to wonder why ? |
|
|
|
Post by LOVELYRITA on Apr 15, 2006 13:28:35 GMT -5
Funny that it's statues of Alice In Wonderland, one of the shadow system's methods of using mind control through a children's novel.....They just happen to be given in that year 1966....
Hmmmm
Those statues look like mean trolls, those hideous little monsters that jump out from underneath bridges and eat kids.....something creepy....looks like they should be on the Sgt. Pepper album...
Get a kick out of the bit about Mal spending time with his wife.....Wouldn't that be about the time he would be in Kenya with the newfangled Bill? He pops down to London to make sure the boys "equipment" is in good order.....Maybe Bill's equipment...to make sure he's all in one piece, looking as much like JPM as they could muster up in those days.....maybe he had to pick out those Mr. Potato Head ears to fit Bill.....
Yes, TI made a good point that the most popular songs in the poll are the JPM compositions...
Why do they think the fans are interested in these little "ditties"?
|
|
|
|
Post by fourthousandholes on Aug 24, 2006 8:26:14 GMT -5
From the Nov '66 Beatles Monthly magazine, seems that Mike McCartney gave Paul a collection of Alice in Wonderland statues, with which Paul decorated his garden.. It may be time to discuss the Ted Goranson theories.. At the GeoKabbalitter site is information that shows the following new-to-the-public things:
* John’s songs from Sgt Pepper are copied from Dylan’s Tamborine Man
* Help from my Friends and Hey Jude, are inspired by Lord Buckley routines (which are on this site)
* (This is the biggie) the White Album was built in Rishikesh around the Tarot and Alice in Wonderland as one piece.
* It all was inspired by John‘s tripping on The Magus, (and Paul’s later tripping on the Ubu plays).
I sent Ted this scan, (we have talked a bit) I don't think he placed the statues' appearance this early. (I may be mistaken) He discusses it at length in various usenet posts, here is one. All his posts on rec.music.beatles: LINKA significant clue hidden here! Read the "Actor Neil" article. WISH YOU WERE HERE (Pink Floyd) So So you think you can tell Heaven from Hell Blue skies from pain Can you tell a green field From a cold steel rail A smile from a veil Do you think you can tell Did they get you to trade Your heroes for ghosts Hot ashes for trees Hot air for a cool breeze Cold comfort for change Did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?How I wish, how I wish you were here We're just two lost souls Swimming in a fish bowl Year after year Running over the same old ground What have we found The same old fears Wish you were here I'll try to explain more later. I'm at work right now. ;D More about WYWH here: (Note "twin freaks" on the single cover) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wish_You_Were_Here_%281975_song%29 |
|
|
|
Post by lili on Aug 24, 2006 10:03:57 GMT -5
I thought those lines were about John's part in the movie. Now, I think that it could be used to describe either John or Neil. I know that some people at TKIN think that Neil is the Faul of today. I highly doubt that, since Neil was a much smaller man than Bill is. I think that Neil was one of the first Faul's, but it didn't work out. I believe that the Neil Aspinall of today is still the person who replaced Neil all those years ago. Who knows what happened to the original Neil Aspinall.  |
|
|
|
Post by noodles on Aug 25, 2006 12:16:18 GMT -5
As a birthday present, hmm I'd say that's a good call. I'm beginning to think if there were plans for an Alice theme, it had its genesis with these statues from Mike. They show up on a single sleeve a few years later: Did John have AIW statues too? I had it in my head that the statues in this picture were John's.  |
|
|
|
Post by LOVELYRITA on Aug 25, 2006 21:07:54 GMT -5
Didn't George have some weird little statues on his "All Things Must Pass" album cover?
|
|
|
|
Post by JoJo on Aug 4, 2008 23:35:29 GMT -5
From a usenet post: tinyurl.com/6qkggm I cleaned up the mangled text, and made an educated guess about a word or two.. A Ted Goranson Search on Google: tinyurl.com/68gsd3Well-
I suppose I let myself in for this. But here goes.
There are a number of stories to be told: how Lewis Carroll came to write the Alice books; the story of the men upon which he based his work (Bulwer Lytton and Thomas Hariott); and even I suppose how I became involved. The stories of interest to Beatle fans are two. The first is in the songs and how they
were influenced by the Tarot and Alice. Yes, this in the face of numerous
denials by Paul and sometime evasions by John.Yet the structure and
illusions are so numerous that this an even more interesting story if they
were not intended. But this is a large story that needs graphic aids--It's
what the book is about.
The second story is much briefer and addresses merely the history of the Beatles and Alice without allusion to the songs (actually the words). I'll outline the high points below, at least to Pepper. I have good sources for these events, but am interested if someone knows better. What I get out of the deal is more relevant facts if anyone knows any. In any case, my interest is in the other story, the structure in the white album, whether intended or not.
As a boy, John was obsessed with Alice and drove his friends crazy by continually reciting segments. He was attracted to the wordplay for sure, but also the imaginary scenes.His goal in life, stated many times, was to write another Alice. He
wrote many Alice-like scenes. Compare Deaf Ted, Dantoona (and me) from
his childhood (found in A Spaniard in the Works with Carroll's most
famous poem Jabberwocky. This remained his primary goal in life until
forming the band, then it was supplemented by being bigger than Elvis.
Even then his literary imagination mixed with the band, as can be seen in his
more adolescent obsession with Treasure Island. He insisted on being
called Long John and it was part of the stage show that he talked and
sang to an imaginary parrot. (Which appears later in songs and his 1969
biographical etching.) As soon as Brian would let him, he started
writing.In art school, he met Stu Suttcliff who impressed John with his
(initially immature) understanding of how some artists make allusions in
their work and use those illusions to import structure from a deeper
level. Until his death, Stu was a member (somewhat honorary) of the band.
In Germany, he introduced the boys to a leading proponent of this theory,
from whom Stu won a scholarship for study. The most common example of
this theory was the artist Magritte, one of whose paintings was of an
apple. Stu called his small group of German friends and the Bs the Apple
Corps. Upon Stu's death, Paul took over both on bass and as John's
companion in this and other regards artistically.
Part of this theory, especially in Germany (as influenced by Rudolph Steiner), involved the use of the Jewish Kabbalah as the system of symbols embedded in the human consciousness. Brian, who was Jewish, thought this bosh, which added an
additional dimension to John's epithet "queer jew." As soon as the Bs were
free of Brian, they called themselves after this group. Note that Paul now
has invested heavily in Magritte originals.The tarot cards are structured
according to the central organization of the Kabbalah, which is a
geometric diagram (of symbols) known as the tree of life.
John first discovered the connection between Alice and the tarot in the works
of Aleister Crowley, a British esoteric practitioner after the German
tradition. The main idea here is that man evolves by moving up the ten
nodes of the tree.As early as Revolver, John wanted to write an album-long
song based on this idea and using Alice. The album's title was to have been
first Abracadabra, then Magic Circles (the ten tarot nodes). The Void (aka
Mark I for the first node) was to have been a whole side long and include
a chorus of a thousand monks: Alice in a boat floating <upstream> from
node to node, each node being a different song. His own work habits,
George and Brian conspired against him for this song, but Paul promised to
help structure the next album. The song was renamed after the promise,
Tomorrow never knows. (The cover was done by one of the original, German
Apple Corps.)
During this time, Paul became involved with John in
hallucinogens and traveled with Ringo to Liverpool to visit a psychic
there. To John's amazement, Paul was told he had been Lewis Carroll, and
Ringo had been William Shakespeare. Paul was to grab this alice/tarot
mission for the next three albums with such vigor that it pissed John
off.
Meanwhile (after How I Won the War) John determined to read a certain
book, John Fowles <The Magus>. This he did while he and Ringo (and wives)
vacationed in a haunted house! The book is about weaving Alice and
Kabbalah into a life game. It took place on an Island in Greece. (He
subsequently, in July, pursued the purchase of a Greek Island for the Bs
to conduct a similar game, and actually arranged for Julian's education
there. Through this process, he became the sponsor of a Greek con wiz,
Magic Alex, who promised to bring the life game to the masses through
electronics.)
The next album was to be based on Alice and the cards. John
was to cover the spades and diamonds, Paul the hearts and clubs. Paul
proposed the band take an identity as Sgt (originally Dr.) Pepper's Lonely
<Hearts> <Club> Band. He wrote a song for Ringo based on the Lord Buckley
routine, Willy the Shake, which became Billy Shears. (The idea is that
Shakespeare was a hapless front man for Francis Bacon who wrote the plays
structured after the tarot, or so the esoteric tradition went. The joke
goes further as the song was originally badfinger boogie from the cavern
days, original words where John put words in the parrot's mouth.) Pepper
is from Alice (and tarot), and stands for karma. (Hey Jude comes from an
idea during this period and is taken from another Buckley routine: The
Nazz)
John structured his song, Lacie in the Sky with Diamonds, after two
influences. Lacie was Carroll's pet anagram name for Alice. Diamonds spoke
to the nature of that suit of the tarot: the fully conscious state brought
on by drugs. Many images were drawn from Alice, the newspaper taxis,
flowering over ..head, rockinghorse people, etc. He even says ..with
looking-glass ties. (The other source was Dylan's Tambourine Man, which
also spawned the circus and kite songs (his only sole authorships on the
record), but that's another story.)
In the planning phase, Mal met with the Jefferson Airplane (who had just done White Rabbit) and collected the more bizarre Alice associations, mostly having to do with drugs (which of course was not intended by Carroll.) John's thinking is preserved in a remarkable document, which he made sure was included in the authorized biography (early editions anyway). There you can see the slip where he has some words for Lucy (he has crossed out Lacie and made it Lucie); he has
fiddled with some order of the songs, and has traced the zigzag tarot
path. He also has the name of an obscure book on the tarot (actually the
name is wrong) by an author who followed up on the Alice/Tarot
associations.
John's contributions to the cover included Dylan, Carroll,
Crowley, and Bulwer-Lytton (Carroll's source for Alice and himself a
kabbalist), Stu and Alain-Forniers. The Alice associations were no secret. Chad and Jeremy did a knockoff of Cabbages and Kings, Dylan and the Stones each responded with their own tarot albums. Before even incorporating as Apple Corps, they had a corporate tarot reader, Caleb.
I'll stop here. The next two albums weresuccessfully organized against Alice where Pepper colored outside the lines. Note just a couple high points. Paul became so obsessed with the tarot path he built a literal tarot zigzag path in his garden and put figures from Alice at the nodes. (These were rearranged for a photo session
of the Bs and Yoko which appeared as The 45 cover in the US of the Ballad
of John and Yoko.) John named his cat in NY Alice and his son Sean <Taro>.
Frequent, sometimes daily tarot readings were demanded by both J & Y,
beginning in MMT.
There's much more about TWA aka Jubilee which was Paul's
name for the White Album; John's was Music in a Doll's House (Based on two
plays, one was Tiny Alice). But someone stole the idea and name and did a
knockoff alice album (Family, Reprise RS 6312 for the curious). Jubilees is an
apocryphal book of the Bible based on Kabbalah. Linda's cover of spilled cherries on
McCartney refers to the messed up plan. Wino Junko on that record was to have
been the Main song for TWA under the name Jubilee. (Jubilee is also a
Kabbalistic time of forgiveness from the Biblical period.)
Okay, I'll stop.
Please note, I am not trying to convince anyone here. I'm only trying
to understand the context for the incredible structuring of the white
album. The real case, if anyone wants to see it that way, is in the real
artifact, their work.Ted Goranson |
|
|
|
Post by openmind on Aug 5, 2008 1:14:03 GMT -5
That is really a great post Jojo- keep it going- fascinating,I think you are definately on to something there. Awesome stuff.
|
|
|
|
Post by B on Aug 7, 2008 19:19:27 GMT -5
Great find, Jojo. Thanks for posting it.
|
|
|
|
Post by JoJo on Aug 13, 2008 17:53:42 GMT -5
Taf mentioned in a comment on his blog that he would like to see Goranson go into the Alice/Beatles material in more detail.. So would I of course. I dug out some emails I exchanged with him about two and half years ago, and he mentioned wanting to get into it again. But, guess he is busy with other matters like this: www.atpm.com/Back/atpo.shtmlwww.sirius-beta.com/He may have been a little ahead of time, as the response he received to his ideas ten years ago on Usenet was probably a lot to take.. the replies were almost all negative and dismissive. I don't think that would stop him necessarily, but it couldn't have helped encourage either. |
|
|
|
Post by fireman on Aug 28, 2008 0:25:14 GMT -5
Fascinating.
|
|
I've been staying out of this for a few weeks, so I almost posted about Martha being Bill's dog. 
