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Post by carman on May 21, 2009 12:20:23 GMT -5
People often want to dismiss the Beatles as divine messengers by comparing them to Jesus and pointing out their shortcomings compared to him. I found this quote which gives my answer to this:
I don't think Jesus was an exclusivist. He said, and we believe, that He is the unique representation of God in the world. But that doesn't mean this is the only way God can work.
Andrew Greeley
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Post by iameye on May 21, 2009 12:24:52 GMT -5
We need a change of direction, to redefine ourselves. At least give it a try or may may perish. yep, it's almost June.
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Post by 65if2007 on May 21, 2009 16:35:44 GMT -5
People often want to dismiss the Beatles as divine messengers by comparing them to Jesus and pointing out their shortcomings compared to him. I found this quote which gives my answer to this: I don't think Jesus was an exclusivist. He said, and we believe, that He is the unique representation of God in the world. But that doesn't mean this is the only way God can work. Andrew Greeley You haven't even gotten to first base. Lennon made it clear that he didn't believe in God. He was entitled to that belief or absence of belief, but by its very nature, it's antithetical to every understanding of what's understood in the concept of what is "divine". You can't be a "divine" atheist. I like a lot of what the Beatles produced and am indifferent to some of it and dislike a portion of it, but I am not aware of any "divine" messages in anything that they were responsible for. And to the extent that there were larger themes in anything that they did, there was nothing "divine" about the way in which they were presented. An artistic depiction of four smiling pop stars pretending to butcher young babies isn't "divine"; it's weirdness for its own sake and for exhibitionist purposes. So is publicly displaying yourself in bed.
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Post by carman on May 21, 2009 17:05:49 GMT -5
Based on what John said he wasn't an atheist. He didn't believe in a personal God and neither do millions of Buddhist. He did believe in peace and love and to me that's divine. You seem to think that anyone in touch with the divine needs to be perfect. Supposedly even Jesus showed anger and was therefore less than perfect. The important thing is the good that people do not the screwy things. The Beatles were creative geniuses so let's slip them a little slack. They sang about what was good, not abusing women or killing someone because they "dis' you. They come as close to the divine as any rock stars I've listened to. That's why their music is loved by millions even the stuff from forty five years ago. Even their pre LSD music was sweet and touching. To me, no others compare.
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Post by pataphysical on May 21, 2009 19:13:30 GMT -5
People often want to dismiss the Beatles as divine messengers by comparing them to Jesus and pointing out their shortcomings compared to him. I found this quote which gives my answer to this: I don't think Jesus was an exclusivist. He said, and we believe, that He is the unique representation of God in the world. But that doesn't mean this is the only way God can work. Andrew Greeley That's funny. Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 Sounds like an exclusivist to me!
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Post by carman on May 21, 2009 23:08:30 GMT -5
Jesus didn't say you only see God through me. He said only by following my teachings will you come to the father. Think about it, all we have of him are his teachings.
The Beatles advocated the same teachings as Jesus. No one owns the truth. Humans only try to find it and the greatest among us try to lead the rest in that direction. Jesus, the Beatles and many others did their best. Jesus proved his belief and devotion by giving his life. Someone once said "if Jesus had lived longer he would have repudiated his doctrine", an interesting thought. The Beatles did live longer so they went back to being like the rest of us, disillusioned, disappointed and more realistic.
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Post by pataphysical on May 22, 2009 19:37:08 GMT -5
Semantics, shemantics. See John 14:6.
And you seem to be twisting His teachings to suit your beliefs.
Why do you insist on equating Jesus Christ and the Beatles? Is it your goal to deify the rock group or to blaspheme the Savior?
The Beatles basically started by saying, "Let's have a good time" and ended by saying peace and love will make everything better.
On the other hand, some interesting quotes ("teachings") from Jesus Christ:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." - John 8:34
"Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." - Matthew 4:17
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." - Matthew 10:34-36
"The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." - John 7:7
Doesn't sound too Beatle-like to me!
Problem is, the human race, left to its own devices, cannot define truth, so that's why we "try to find it"; often the best we can do is come to a consensus. Which can be quite problematic if the consensus is "untruthful." A good example would be the consensus that James Paul McCartney is alive and well, and always has been. A more important one is that mankind has a substantial influence on the earth's climate.
I personally have been led to Jesus by the flawed truth-seeking I've experienced on this forum. Human consensus doesn't cut it for me.
Another disturbing equating of Jesus and the Beatles (plus many others this time!)
He fulfilled the Scriptures by dying for our sins, is how a believer would put it.
A quite blasphemous one too, I might add. He didn't die by accident.
Unfotunately, they left a lasting cultural influence which is metastasizing to this day: exultation of the self. An excellent book on their cultural influence is the late Ian MacDonald's "Revolution in the Head."
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Post by iameye on May 22, 2009 21:52:44 GMT -5
Semantics, shemantics. See John 14:6. And you seem to be twisting His teachings to suit your beliefs. Why do you insist on equating Jesus Christ and the Beatles? Is it your goal to deify the rock group or to blaspheme the Savior? The Beatles basically started by saying, "Let's have a good time" and ended by saying peace and love will make everything better. On the other hand, some interesting quotes ("teachings") from Jesus Christ: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." - John 8:34 "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." - Matthew 4:17 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." - Matthew 10:34-36 "The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." - John 7:7 Doesn't sound too Beatle-like to me! Problem is, the human race, left to its own devices, cannot define truth, so that's why we "try to find it"; often the best we can do is come to a consensus. Which can be quite problematic if the consensus is "untruthful." A good example would be the consensus that James Paul McCartney is alive and well, and always has been. A more important one is that mankind has a substantial influence on the earth's climate. I personally have been led to Jesus by the flawed truth-seeking I've experienced on this forum. Human consensus doesn't cut it for me. Another disturbing equating of Jesus and the Beatles (plus many others this time!) He fulfilled the Scriptures by dying for our sins, is how a believer would put it. A quite blasphemous one too, I might add. He didn't die by accident. why would Jesus be the sword? was he a tool of sorts?
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Post by 65if2007 on May 23, 2009 0:31:58 GMT -5
Semantics, shemantics. See John 14:6. And you seem to be twisting His teachings to suit your beliefs. Why do you insist on equating Jesus Christ and the Beatles? Is it your goal to deify the rock group or to blaspheme the Savior? The Beatles basically started by saying, "Let's have a good time" and ended by saying peace and love will make everything better. On the other hand, some interesting quotes ("teachings") from Jesus Christ: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." - John 8:34 "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." - Matthew 4:17 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." - Matthew 10:34-36 "The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." - John 7:7 Doesn't sound too Beatle-like to me! Problem is, the human race, left to its own devices, cannot define truth, so that's why we "try to find it"; often the best we can do is come to a consensus. Which can be quite problematic if the consensus is "untruthful." A good example would be the consensus that James Paul McCartney is alive and well, and always has been. A more important one is that mankind has a substantial influence on the earth's climate. I personally have been led to Jesus by the flawed truth-seeking I've experienced on this forum. Human consensus doesn't cut it for me. Another disturbing equating of Jesus and the Beatles (plus many others this time!) He fulfilled the Scriptures by dying for our sins, is how a believer would put it. A quite blasphemous one too, I might add. He didn't die by accident. Unfotunately, they left a lasting cultural influence which is metastasizing to this day: exultation of the self. An excellent book on their cultural influence is the late Ian MacDonald's "Revolution in the Head." EXCELLENT, pataphysical!
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Post by carman on May 25, 2009 19:19:51 GMT -5
The Beatles basically started by saying, "Let's have a good time" and ended by saying peace and love will make everything better. I think this is a little oversimplified. The Beatles underwent a profound spiritual awakening. They did a lot more than just say love and peace. Their songs addressed most of the important questions that life poses. They expressed the beauty they now saw and guided us in their songs to change ourselves in the direction of a kinder more compassionate world.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." - John 8:34 "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." - Matthew 4:17 The Beatles also tried to deliver us from the evil that plagues the world. The prediction that the kingdom of heaven is at hand was obviously off by a few thousand years or more.
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." - Matthew 10:34-36 The Beatles basically called to the youth to leave their families behind and join together and start a new world; different words with the same meaning.
"The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." - John 7:7 This is the same reason the Beatles message was a secret because they understood that if the "world" or power structure knew what they were up to they would have been toast.
I don't think of it as a competition between Jesus and the Beatles. The stories are different but the message the same.
Someone said if Jesus came back today one thing he wouln't be is a Christian. I don't think he'd have a problem being a Beatle.
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Post by carman on Jun 15, 2009 12:52:41 GMT -5
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Post by carman on Jun 28, 2009 10:16:56 GMT -5
I want to share an email from someone who read my book. I get much satisfaction receiving responses from people with this much insight: Hi Carman, I read your book today (although I skipped a lot of the lyrics, since I know them by heart), and, I have to say, I find your interpretation to be very interesting and reasonably plausible. I do believe that the Beatles, under the influence of LSD, tried to use their fame to forge a spiritual message of togetherness. I wasn't alive during this time, but everything I've seen and read about the '60s makes it seem like a truly remarkable period in history during which anything was possible. Were the Beatles successful? I suppose not. The planet has only become more poisoned with war and greed since their decade together, and it actually seems as though the Beatles themselves gave up on their ideals. I'm not sure how I feel about the way your work ties into the Paul Is Dead theory. I like the notion that the group played upon these curiosities to make their fans look for deeper messages within the music, but, when I look at certain photos of McCartney from Sgt. Pepper onward, he looks like a different person completely. At times it seems unimaginable that people would have accepted only one McCartney existed. Whether or not that means Paul was killed, replaced or whatever else, I'm not sure. There is a great air of mystery surrounding the Beatles. I've spent so much time and thought on them, it seems impossible to me that I don't have a firmer grasp on their true message as artists. Nearly everything I read casts an entirely different light upon the individual members of the band. For instance, in John Green's Dakota Days and Albert Goldman's The Life of John Lennon, Lennon seems like a complete asshole whose attempts at fostering peace on Earth were mere image-making. Yet, nearly everywhere else, the man is presented to the public as saintly. It's difficult to reconcile fact from fiction. Yet, of everything I've read, your work comes the closest to explaining why the band has had such a lasting effect on culture, and why so many intelligent people would spend their precious time attempting to unravel this mystery. Were the Beatles just four men who played together in a band, or were they messianic figures who formed a Chirst-like entity in order to teach the people of the world the true meaning of peace and love. If the music, by itself, is to be judged, I think the Beatles were prophets of love. In the end, when everything that will be written has been written, and everything that will be said has been said, the music is the only thing that will matter. Thanks for sharing your book. Best of luck, Steve my website is back up at www.beatlestherealsecretmessage.com
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Post by carman on Sept 13, 2010 2:04:52 GMT -5
I shut down my website but I'll send you a copy FREE. Its an ebook and a graphic both in .pdf format. If you find it interesting, you can share it with others. carmancorvia@yahoo.com
Also if you want to hear a podcast of why I wrote the book go to "Bertone Beatle Bonanza" and under podcasts about half way down you will find a podcast where I express my views. I would appreciate some feedback on your opinion. Regards, Carman
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Post by B on Sept 14, 2010 18:58:02 GMT -5
Good to hear from you, Carman.
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Post by carman on Sept 14, 2010 21:35:59 GMT -5
This is still hands down the best Beatle website on the WEB. I just wish I knew how to attach my graphic which is a .pdf file. I've browsed and attached but it doesn't show up. What am I doing wrong?
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Post by The Deceptionist on Sept 15, 2010 5:52:07 GMT -5
This is still hands down the best Beatle website on the WEB. I just wish I knew how to attach my graphic which is a .pdf file. I've browsed and attached but it doesn't show up. What am I doing wrong? what size is it? there may be a cap on the file size for attachments... i seem to remember the document being fairly large
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Post by carman on Sept 15, 2010 11:05:06 GMT -5
A .pdf that's 1.06MB (not my book) I guess that's over the limit? Too bad because it shows many of the album clues on one page. Again,n if I can't display it here I'll email it to anyone on request. It was never posted here. carmancorvia@yahoo.com
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Post by The Deceptionist on Sept 15, 2010 11:27:55 GMT -5
oh - at 1.06 i'd imagine thats well within the limit the only other explanation i can think of is that its proboards don't like the .pdf format. otherwise, i'm stumped. is it feasible to take a screen shot and then upload the resulting jpg(s)?
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Post by B on Sept 18, 2010 14:04:17 GMT -5
quoting from the "Above Top Secret" site: Paul McCartney Leader of Illuminati???www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread358780/pg2"ive been investigating the whole Paul was replaced idea and i was looking at the iamaphoney videos on youtube. I found a bunch of connections with him and an unknown rapper named "time"... here is the video supposedly "time" channeled the real Paul for his last album but he was going for lennon. they did some weird shamanic ritual with the help of his uncle a 33rd... i found all this out on the, Nothing is Real, Paul was replaced forum... i dont know see what you guys think here's the only video i ran across www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuWNQJE8y5M "Is rapper Time a freemason/illuminati member?--------------- " i found all this out on the, Nothing is Real, Paul was replaced forum." What?![/color]
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Post by JoJo on Sept 18, 2010 17:01:45 GMT -5
This is still hands down the best Beatle website on the WEB. I just wish I knew how to attach my graphic which is a .pdf file. I've browsed and attached but it doesn't show up. What am I doing wrong? Hey Carman, if you like, email the document to the address on my NIR profile, I'll take care of it.
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Post by JoJo on Sept 19, 2010 11:16:09 GMT -5
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Post by B on Sept 19, 2010 16:23:04 GMT -5
quoting from Carman's book:"In the song (Blue Jay Way) can be heard on careful listening the hidden phrases:
"I need you" (00:39) "I love you" (00:45) and "we need many to end this war" (01:13) (a reference to the war in Vietnam.)"----------- Let's see if you agree: (times on the video may vary slightly)The Beatles-Blue Jay Way www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HNgIqKDC4QFor my two cents, some of the subliminals in this song about Paul being bloody, etc. have been covered extensively here. I am more inclined to hear the wording in that context, but I post this in the interest of fairness, and in case we've missed something. Frankly, I don't hear any of the phrases Carman hears, but to each his own. B
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Post by carman on Sept 19, 2010 17:59:44 GMT -5
Earphones and focusing on the baqckground are essential to hear this and the other subliminal messages such as in "She's So Heavy" (see the book for details).
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Post by carman on Sept 21, 2010 7:01:02 GMT -5
Some more food for thought:
The instrument Paul is holding on the Sgt. Peppers's Cover is called a "cor anglais". Could this be a an obscure clue for "Los Angeles"?
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Post by B on Sept 21, 2010 9:12:38 GMT -5
It would have to be a very obscure clue for Los Angeles. More likely it relates to the French word for heart, "coeur". As outrageous as it may sound, Faul uses many images and lyrics to suggest that he is in the role of the messiah; the cor anglais crosses his 'sacred' heart on Pepper. the crucifictionThe spear pierces his right side (as we see it), while the 'blood and water' gush from his left, (shown by the light blob).Carman, you might want to check out some of the wordplay suggested by the imagery on Sgt Pepper mentioned in the Solution to Sgt. Pepper Enigma thread.
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