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Post by B on Aug 10, 2009 15:32:49 GMT -5
puzzled wrote: "Considering that everyone knows there are four Beatles, how can they justify showing only three?"If you look carefully, you'll notice that the bottom beetle is slightly larger than the two above it. My take on it is that the two sets of Beatles, the 'Paul' Beatles from 1960 - 1966, and the 'Faul' post-1966 Beatles, both are the patterned on an idea of what the Beatles ought to be (the large Beatle). In reply # 19, A Pinch of Vermouth wrote: "The white area betwixt the three beetles is called a 'fess nebuly.' It is thought to represent either 'clouds' or 'Heaven.'" So the shield could suggest that the Earthly versions of 'The Beatles' were patterned after the heavenly archetype.
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Post by jarvitronics on Aug 10, 2009 19:21:38 GMT -5
I think he chose a Martin because his name is George.
-j
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Post by puzzled on Aug 10, 2009 20:42:19 GMT -5
Wow, thanks for all the input everyone. I finally found a picture of the correct kind of martin: The martins I'm used to don't look like that. Since the bird has a "pipe" I thought maybe it represented George Martin as the Pied Piper to the Beatles?
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Post by B on Aug 10, 2009 20:52:01 GMT -5
Sgt. Piper?
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Post by jarvitronics on Aug 10, 2009 23:57:02 GMT -5
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Post by iameye on Aug 11, 2009 18:34:30 GMT -5
At the pearly gates of dawn. ;D
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Post by jarvitronics on Aug 11, 2009 19:36:02 GMT -5
At the pearly gates of dawn. ;D Oy, sister! A dish-covered saucer full of secrets. -j P.S. Ringo is the carpenter.
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Post by iameye on Aug 11, 2009 19:43:43 GMT -5
At the pearly gates of dawn. ;D Oy, sister! A dish-covered saucer full of secrets. -j P.S. Ringo is the carpenter. of the gates?lol jarvitronics!
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Post by iameye on Aug 11, 2009 19:45:55 GMT -5
yenz
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Post by jarvitronics on Aug 11, 2009 19:51:39 GMT -5
Oy, sister! A dish-covered saucer full of secrets. -j P.S. Ringo is the carpenter. of the gates?lol jarvitronics! No. Ringo actually worked as a carpenter. (Joiner. No nails.) Then I got a job In a factoryHere come ol' flat top. -j
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Post by iameye on Aug 11, 2009 20:06:48 GMT -5
of the gates?lol jarvitronics! No. Ringo actually worked as a carpenter. (Joiner. No nails.) Then I got a job In a factoryHere come ol' flat top. -j I told you about strawberry fields, You know the place where nothing is realWell here's another place you can go Where everthing flows. Looking through the bent backed tulips To see how the other half lives Looking through a glass onion. I told you about the walrus and me-man You know that we're as close as can be-man. Well here's another clue for you all, The walrus was Paul. Standing on the cast iron shore-yeah, Lady Madonna trying to make ends meet-yeah.Looking through a glass onion. Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. Looking through a glass onion. I told you about the fool on the hill, I tell you man he living there still. Well here's another place you can be, Listen to me. Fixing a hole in the ocean Trying to make a dove-tail joint-yeah Looking through a glass onion
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Post by jarvitronics on Aug 11, 2009 20:42:21 GMT -5
Pablo Palmer winking in a tree Police departmentally First come crooks Then come glasses Then come poor dumbfounded masses
I can hear your temple bells Ring out what your heart tale tells Go another round with her Better make that Pretty Kitty Purr
Paulie Roger wrote a rhyme for me P-O-E-T-R-E-E First comes verse Then comes chorus Then comes a one-eyed freakasaurus
I can hear your temple bells Ring out what your heart tale tells Go another round with her Better make that Pretty Kitty Purr
'Yes' Spoke the queen of eloquence To the loon on the stair And just as I ate the apple I eighty-eight the pear
I can see your lucky charm Riches of my day's alarm Fade to blue like Lucifer Better make that Pretty Kitty Purr
-j
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Post by thisone on Aug 21, 2009 18:48:14 GMT -5
I happened to notice while checking up what rebuses were (thanks Jarv), that they were commonly used on Coats of Arms. The Pied/Martin Piper (leading us to reason) up top immediately jumps out! I'm sure there's more! The obvious candidates the Three Beatles and Love Is all you Need mustn't be overlooked. Need help with the Zebra/Crozier though! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebusen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canting_armsF'rinstance this one -- "Princess Beatrice of York's arms: Beatrice = bee thrice = three bees"
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Post by vOOdOOgurU on Sept 9, 2012 22:12:59 GMT -5
yenz Arms: Azure on a Fess Nebuly Argent between three Stag Beetles Or five Barrulets Sable. Why there are 3 beetles is unclear. As it was issued in 2004, both George Harrison and John Lennon had died well before that date. I'm unsure how long it takes to design a herald, but Harrison died in 2001. In the 3 years since that death, it seems odd that it would not get redesigned to signify such a thing. The Fess Nebuly either signifies Clouds or Water. I would say Water, because the US Navy has similar features on its ship's crest. But it may mean Clouds or Air, several sites confirm this. Silver or White (Argent) Peace and sincerity Stag Beetles Or: Gold (Or) Generosity and elevation of the mind Five Barrulets Sable: Black (Sable) Constancy or grief Crest: On a wreath Argent and Azure A House Martin proper holding under the sinister wing a Recorder in bend sinister mouthpiece downwards Or. The bend sinister signifies illegitmacy/bastardy. Proper: In its natural colours. Blue (Azure) Truth and loyalty "Dexter" (Latin for "right") means to the right from the viewpoint of the bearer of the arms, to the left of that of the viewer. "Sinister" (Latin for "left")means to the left from the viewpoint of the bearer, to the right of that of the viewer. The dexter side is considered the side of greatest honour. When speaking of left-and right-handed people, the left can be known as "sinister," while the right is "dexter." Motto: AMORE SOLUM OPUS EST. As mentioned previously in other posts. Badge: A Zebra statant proper supporting with the dexter foreleg over the shoulder an Abbot's Crozier Or. In Western Christianity, the crozier is shaped like a shepherd's crook. A bishop/head of church bears this staff as "shepherd of the flock of God", i.e., particularly the community under his canonical jurisdiction, but any bishop, whether or not assigned to a functional diocese, also uses a crosier when conferring sacraments and presiding at liturgies. A bishop usually holds his crozier with his left hand, leaving his right hand free to bestow blessings. The Caeremoniale Episcoporum states that the bishop holds the crosier with the crook towards the people or forward. A beast statant (Old French: "standing") is "standing" (in profile toward dexter), all four feet on the ground, usually with the forepaws together.This posture is more frequent in crests than in charges on shields Z ~ Heraldic Animals. Zebra ~ meaning uncertain
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Post by vOOdOOgurU on Sept 9, 2012 22:19:20 GMT -5
First the Arms: Arms: Azure on a Fess nebuly Argent between three Stag Beetles Or five Barrulets Sable. Silver or White (Argent) Peace and sincerity Stag Beetles Or: Gold (Or) Generosity and elevation of the mind Five Barrulets Sable: Black (Sable) Constancy or grief Blue (Azure) Truth and loyalty
Truth in/on the Clouds (or Water) of Peace and Sincerity. This lies between three generous and of elevated minds Stag Beetles, 2 are separated/divided from one by grief/constancy.
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Post by vOOdOOgurU on Sept 9, 2012 22:40:37 GMT -5
The Crest
Crest: On a wreath Argent and Azure A House Martin proper holding under the sinister wing a Recorder in bend sinister mouthpiece downwards Or.
If the wreath had laurel leaves and/or berries, this would signify Triumph. The House Martin is on a wreath of Truth & Loyalty (Azure). It is in its natural colours, holding under its left wing a Recorder, in a bend sinister signifying illegitmacy. The Recorder is Gold signifying elevation of mind and generosity.
Had it in its dexter (right) wing, it would have been of the greatest honour. It is in its sinister (left) wing. The Latin word sinistra meant "left" as well as "unlucky" and this double meaning survives in European derivatives of Latin, and in the English word "sinister.' Black magic is sometimes referred to as the "left-hand path". Historically, the left side, and subsequently left-handedness, was considered negative in many cultures. The Latin word sinistra originally meant "left" but took on meanings of "evil" or "unlucky" by the Classical Latin era, and this double meaning survives in Italian, and in the English word "sinister". Alternatively, sinister comes from the Latin word sinus meaning "pocket": a traditional Roman toga had only one pocket, located on the left side.
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Post by B on Sept 9, 2012 22:45:59 GMT -5
vOOdOOgurU wrote: Arms: Azure on a Fess Nebuly Argent between three Stag Beetles Or five Barrulets Sable. Why there are 3 beetles is unclear. As it was issued in 2004, both George Harrison and John Lennon had died well before that date. I'm unsure how long it takes to design a herald, but Harrison died in 2001. In the 3 years since that death, it seems odd that it would not get redesigned to signify such a thing.
So evidently the deaths of George and John are not relevant to what the beetles on the crest represent.
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Post by vOOdOOgurU on Sept 9, 2012 22:48:52 GMT -5
Btw Sable is also referred to as Saturn by some. Diamond by others.
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Post by vOOdOOgurU on Sept 9, 2012 22:52:11 GMT -5
vOOdOOgurU wrote: Arms: Azure on a Fess Nebuly Argent between three Stag Beetles Or five Barrulets Sable. Why there are 3 beetles is unclear. As it was issued in 2004, both George Harrison and John Lennon had died well before that date. I'm unsure how long it takes to design a herald, but Harrison died in 2001. In the 3 years since that death, it seems odd that it would not get redesigned to signify such a thing.So evidently the deaths of George and John are not relevant to what the beetles on the crest represent. It appears not the case. I read somewhere that the 3 beetles was an "error" that could not be fixed in time (according to Martin and this web source.) But I find that a bit hard to fathom that this herald took 3 years to design and grant. If one goes by the drawing alone, no. A week at best! Does the bigger Beetle represent 2 then.
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Post by vOOdOOgurU on Sept 9, 2012 22:55:06 GMT -5
In heraldry, sable is the tincture black, and belongs to the class of dark tinctures, called "colours". In engravings and line drawings, it is sometimes depicted as a region of crossed horizontal and vertical lines or else marked with sa. as an abbreviation.
The name derives from the black fur of the sable, an animal.
Sable is said to represent the following:
Of jewels, the diamond Of heavenly bodies, Saturn (The planet Saturn is further associated with the metal lead in traditional alchemical/occultistic lore)
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Post by vOOdOOgurU on Sept 9, 2012 23:10:01 GMT -5
vOOdOOgurU wrote: Arms: Azure on a Fess Nebuly Argent between three Stag Beetles Or five Barrulets Sable. Why there are 3 beetles is unclear. As it was issued in 2004, both George Harrison and John Lennon had died well before that date. I'm unsure how long it takes to design a herald, but Harrison died in 2001. In the 3 years since that death, it seems odd that it would not get redesigned to signify such a thing.So evidently the deaths of George and John are not relevant to what the beetles on the crest represent. The number 3 I'm still researching, but it seems many coat of arms/crests have a 3 of something on them. This may be representative of the Holy Trinity in some way shape or form. The bigger Beetle may represent the Holy Spirit, being more Or than the other two, or of more elevated mind. Beetle number 3, is separated from the other 2 by Clouds/and or The Heavens. It is more generous/elevated than the other two. They are separated by 5 barrulets of Sable, or Saturn/Diamonds. This may represent grief/constancy by simple use of the colour black (sable) or it may mean more, depending on what Saturn in heraldry means. Or even Diamonds. Beetle below the clouds with Diamonds. ;D
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Post by vOOdOOgurU on Sept 9, 2012 23:26:18 GMT -5
COLOURS:
Silver or White (Argent) Peace and sincerity Argent is said to represent the following:
Of jewels, the pearl Of heavenly bodies, the Moon Of metals, silver
Stag Beetles/Recorder/Crozier Or: Gold (Or) Generosity and elevation of the mind Or is said to represent the following:
Of jewels, the topaz Of heavenly bodies, the Sun Of metals, gold Of virtues, Faith or obedience and gentility
Five Barrulets Sable: Black (Sable) Constancy or grief Sable is said to represent the following:
Of jewels, the diamond Of heavenly bodies, Saturn (The planet Saturn is further associated with the metal lead in traditional alchemical/occultistic lore)
In addition to the standard blue tincture called azure, there is a lighter blue sometimes found that is called bleu celeste or "sky blue". Neither azure nor bleu celeste is precisely defined as a particular shade of blue, but azure is consistently depicted in a much darker shade.
Azure is said to represent the following:
Of jewels, the sapphire Of heavenly bodies, Jupiter (the planet Jupiter is further associated with the metal tin in traditional alchemical/occultistic lore)
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Post by vOOdOOgurU on Sept 10, 2012 0:04:32 GMT -5
THE BADGE: Badge: A Zebra statant proper supporting with the dexter foreleg over the shoulder an Abbot's Crozier Or.
First one has to ask, when did Zebras begin showing up in British Heraldry. We usually associate the Zebra with Africa. So when did it begin showing up on the British coats of arms? It is shown on the coat of arms for Botswana (adopted on January 25, 1966).
Research shows the Zebra can mean something uncertain. It was picked for Botswana because it is neither black nor white, it is neutral.
The Badge shows a Zebra statant (meaning standing on all fours) but this one isn't. It's dexter (right) foreleg is up, supporting the Crozier (of Or - elevated mind/The Sun). The Zebra is held in great honour in doing so. But --- the Crozier in the hands of a Bishop would be in his sinister hand, so that his right may give blessings. The Crozier is also leaning back, the opposite of what a Bishop would do when holding it. A Bishop would point it forward towards the people. An Abbot (dating back to Egyptian times, though loosely defined) is in charge of a monastery. It means Father. At first just a respectful title given to one in a monastery, it later became more exclusive.
The Zebra is holding an Abbots Crozier of Or. Of the Sun. The Zebra holds it with great honour, but in the wrong fashion traditionally to bestow blessings with it, or point it towards the people. The Zebra is neutral / uncertain in symbolic terms.
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Post by vOOdOOgurU on Sept 10, 2012 0:18:00 GMT -5
The Crozier held with both hands for blessings.
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Post by vOOdOOgurU on Sept 10, 2012 0:20:27 GMT -5
All in all I'd say George's coat of arms is a bag of mixed messages. About the man himself, and the nature of his work. The 3 Beetles may simply be in herald tradition to show 3, as it is a very significant number.
But the House Martin and the Zebra are the more interesting creatures (IMO) on this coat of arms.
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