|
Post by Mellow Yellow on Mar 25, 2007 1:45:00 GMT -5
From Wikipedia.... "In with the style of the movie - and only shown by a close reading of the credits - is the casting of a lookalike pair to John Lennon and Yoko Ono. The "Lennon", with long hair, beard and specs, then serves to distract the viewer's attention from Lennon himself, in short wig, false nose and no specs, playing a member of a hunting party." Pressing the Print Scrn button isn't capturing the pic, but if any of you have the movie and want to check, it's at 1:08:22 in the film. Fake Lennon is potrayed by Sean Barry Weske, I could not find the real Lennon in the hunting party. Confirmed here: www.imdb.com/name/nm0058201/Interesting: Jan 18 1983 During a broadcast of "The Magic Christian," Bruce Blackman shoots and kills his family. He claims that he acted on orders received while watching the movie. Anyone ever think this whole Beatles thing is just playing with fire?
|
|
|
Post by beatlies on Mar 25, 2007 2:47:45 GMT -5
... and co-producer of the Ringo-Starr-ing The Magic Christian (written by Terry Southern who is on the cover of Sgt. Pepper) was Dennis O'Dell, who was also an administrator of the Beatles/Apple . See the Star Trek thread for more on The Magic Christian and Lennon-resembling Peter Sellers.
|
|
|
Post by fourthousandholes on Mar 25, 2007 7:52:10 GMT -5
Mellow Yellow wrote: "Anyone ever think this whole Beatles thing is just playing with fire?"Only if you're deranged to begin with. Remember, celebrity attracts the loonies. I worked in a personal care home for 6 years, and had opportunity to interact with a number of truly nutty people, and I'm not just talking about the staff! One individual was absolutely convinced that he had written the song, "Your Momma Don't Dance (and Your Daddy Don't Rock and Roll)". www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeYO7JnqNnQNow me, I would never admit to writing such a song, but this guy was totally persuaded, and called the record company every week to demand his royalties! I'll give him this. They finally got sick of it and cut him a check! Only kidding. ;D But sometimes I think about this: There was a guy I read about once, who had been in a coma for about 9 years, and then he came to. During his time away, he said, he had been a man living in Australia with a given name. He described his house, his family, the kind of car he drove, etc. Somebody took the trouble to look for such a person in Australia, and found him! There was such a person, and everything about him matched what the man who had been "out of it" described. So the only conclusion that could be reached was that the comatose guy had been "living in the head" of this other chap while he was away. The story always make me think of the "Your Momma Don't Dance" guy who insisted he had written that song. Maybe "he" did, while he was in the head of the actual composer. I am he as you are he as you are me and sometimes we are not "all together". ;D
|
|
|
Post by ezwizard on Mar 25, 2007 10:06:57 GMT -5
Of all the celebrities in the world, guess who Mr. Barry-Weske decided to pay homage to: www.cafepress.com/sharontate/74242Always a connection...excuse me, gotta go puke...discuss.
|
|
|
Post by JoJo on Mar 25, 2007 10:31:22 GMT -5
It's pretty clear this isn't John Lennon after freezing: I went frame by frame through that hunting scene, and unless John did more than wear a false nose and wig.. I just don't see him. How about that scene that was similar to A Hard Day's Night in the train compartment? A passenger stands up, switches with a lookalike, (several times) and the guy sitting next to him can't figure out what going on.. hmm.. Then the older stuffy gentleman being pranked gets sucked into a crazy R rated party scene.. Like AHDN on acid. ;D
|
|
|
Post by beatlies on Mar 25, 2007 10:38:34 GMT -5
Just the fact that they would have a scene with fake John Lennon and Yoko Ono, doubles, and then the real John Lennon and Yoko Ono (implying perhaps that even that guy is not the real John Lennon but Brill/Fohn Fennon?) sends an "inside wink" message.
The "social experiment" theme of the movie is that people, from the most "respectable" elite Cambridge/Oxford ruling class types on down through the middle class, will do anything for money and can be bribed to do the most immoral and absurd acts with terrifying ease.
The theme song "If you want it here it is come and get it" is by Faul's "Badfinger" group.
|
|
|
Post by Mellow Yellow on Mar 25, 2007 14:47:32 GMT -5
So this wasn't anything new, you guys alread knew? I agree Beatlies. I think this is just kind of a nod towards the whole double concept. But I still wonder why it's always Beatle related things that set these "deranged" people into killing sprees?
|
|
|
Post by beatlies on Mar 25, 2007 15:30:39 GMT -5
Yeah, good point Mellow Yellow. The most famous example is the Charles Manson killings.
|
|
|
Post by LOVELYRITA on Apr 1, 2007 14:13:02 GMT -5
It's pretty clear this isn't John Lennon after freezing: part of the DaLennon Code It's not John and Yoko but Jesus and Mary Magdalene look a likes trying to "heal" the media in 1970 London! After all, the "MAGIC CHRISTIAN".... (Tongue in cheek)
|
|
|
Post by linus on Sept 20, 2013 2:22:27 GMT -5
In the beginning of this portion of The Magic Christian, we not only see a character from AHDN and Help! (the young blond man), but Ringo & Sellers do board a train almost exactly like the one in AHDN, as JoJo pointed out. The Asian man gets switched out 3 times, and the newspaper-reading gentleman is only happy when he sees what he perceives as the original again. Also notice Peter Sellers dons a fake goatee, like McCartney does in the beginning of AHDN, and glasses like Lennon does in Help! in The Magic Christian, Peter Sellers' character adopts Ringo's character. The very first thing they do is go to see Hamlet, and their friend mentions it is at the part with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. There was a play which premiered in August '66 titled Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead. There is also a movie based on this which came out in 1990. When they sit down to watch the play, Ringo says, "I've seen this. Shakespeare, right?" Sellers replies, "Right and double right!" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosencrantz_and_Guildenstern_Are_Deadmany actors named John and Paul have been cast in productions of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead At the end of the scene they watch, a sign comes down that reads "zap". In AHDN, when Paul quotes from Hamlet, "Oh that this too solid flesh would melt", he turns to the camera and exclaims, "Zap!" Notice he's holding a fake nose. In Sellers' personal train car, there is artwork hung on the walls of mouths and ears. Later in the film, Sellers buys an expensive painting, cuts the nose out and gives it to Ringo. Ringo then says to the art dealer, John Cleese, "Keep your eyes out for a good ear."There's also a scene where Sellers bribes a rowing team to throw a race. The rowing boat later tips over, as does the one Ringo sees in AHDN. Roman Polanski has a small part. Yes, that Yul Brynner in drag with Polanski. The actors playing John & Yoko are also seen on board the Magic Christian during the dinner scene. They are all on board the ship, which is headed from London to New York. (Lennon & Yoko later moved to NY). The ship never actually leaves the port, however. Although the people on board are led to believe it is sailing across the Atlantic. There's also a scene where the monitors show the ship being hijacked, but in reality it was not happening. (false flag terrorism?) tanks and a marching band. Both used in Help! The Magic Christian was written by Terry Southern, who appears on the Sgt. Pepper cover. He also wrote Candy, in which Ringo starred. It was released in the US on 2/11/70 the anniversary of Ringo's marriage to Maureen. 2/11 K2, the mountain Crowley climbed. Also on board the ship is a gorilla looking for a briefcase. looking for a briefcase... and during the train (multiple Asian-man) scene where the older man has the "nightmare sequence", Ringo wears a helmet with butterflies on it. (Monarch programming?)and there's a guy wearing a red/white striped scarf like the one the Beatles wear in Help! after the older man's ordeal, he is taken away by Nazis.
|
|
|
Post by cherilyn7 on Sept 28, 2013 10:46:26 GMT -5
It was often stated by the other Beatles that Ringo would have a good career in films as he was a good actor. Ok. Maybe the roles he had didn't help but he seemed "wooden" to me. In fact, I think he appeared ill at ease. That train carriage scene with the revolving door was interesting and the fact that the businessman was taken into the another compartment where there was a stripper and cameras flashing then whipped back to where he had been seated and now could be blackmailed? Yes, I noticed the wall "art" of a mouth and an ear. No wonder, many people at the time thought the Beatles films were "rubbish" they did not make sense as a story to the "man in the street".
|
|
|
Post by linus on Oct 7, 2013 1:43:54 GMT -5
Peter Sellers recorded and released a single of him performing a rendition of A Hard Day's Night. www.jpgr.co.uk/col_em293.htmlHe also performed it on the British tv special "The music of Lennon & McCartney". www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLongUBPm5YFurther linking him to the multiples scenes in The Magic Christian and The Beatles
|
|
|
Post by linus on Oct 16, 2013 2:59:13 GMT -5
Forgot to mention, at the very beginning of the film Peter Sellers watches tv. The program shows men all looking very similar doing exercises. We also see infinite reflections of Peter in the mirror. Plenty of multiples imagery.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 6:35:08 GMT -5
Forgot to mention, at the very beginning of the film Peter Sellers watches tv. The program shows men all looking very similar doing exercises. We also see infinite reflections of Peter in the mirror. Plenty of multiples imagery. multiples of what? Come and get it. lol
|
|
|
Post by linus on Oct 18, 2013 1:56:04 GMT -5
“A fool and his money” from Badfinger’s song Come and Get It, featured prominently in The Magic Christian. fool (n.) late 13c., "silly or stupid person," from Old French fol "madman, insane person; idiot; rogue; jester," also "blacksmith's bellows," also an adjective meaning "mad, insane" (12c., Modern French fou), from Latin follis "bellows, leather bag" (see follicle); in Vulgar Latin used with a sense of "windbag, empty-headed person." Cf. also Sanskrit vatula- "insane," literally "windy, inflated with wind." The follis (plural folles, later Italian follaro, Arabic fels) was a type of coin in the Roman and Byzantine traditions. The word follis means bag (usually made of leather) in Latin, and there is evidence that this term was used in antiquity for a sealed bag containing a specific amount of coins. It is also possible that the coin was named Follisin The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus, directed by Monty Python’s Terry Gilliam, the character Tony Shepherd is played by four different actors. Heath Ledger, Colin Farrell, Jude Law and Johnny Depp. Heath Ledger is hung in his last two films. The Hanged Man card is even used in Dr. Parnassus in reference to Tony Plus he wears this clown/joker outfit. The Fool on the Ledgethe Thoth Fool with his bag of coins. The word follis means bag in Latin, and there is evidence that this term was used in antiquity for a sealed bag containing a specific amount of coins.Tony inserts a pipe into his throat in order to survive the hangings. Danny from the shining has a little man in his throat named Tony. Mt. Parnassus is a mountain sacred to Apollo. Danny wears his Apollo sweater. “Don’t believe everything you read in the mirror” – Dr. Parnassus Halloran always calls Danny “Doc”. In Tim Burton’s Batman, The Joker throws money into the streets while gassing the people with hot-air balloons. More air bags/money/fool symbolism. In The Dark Knight Rises, Matthew Modine (Pvt. Joker) continuously calls Robin a “hothead”.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 6:09:44 GMT -5
lol
|
|
iameye
Electric Arguments
Posts: 1,119
|
Post by iameye on Oct 18, 2013 7:52:35 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by linus on Jan 2, 2014 3:30:52 GMT -5
Peter Sellers covers A Hard Day's Night in the Style of Laurence Olivier's Richard III. Olivier starrs in Boys From Brazil, with James Mason, who starred in Lolita. If Lolita was released in 1962, it's safe to assume the story begins in 1962. The film spans 4 years, putting Lolita's pregnancy, and her child's birth in 1966, year 0. The same year Rosemary has her baby. In Asia, the letters R and L are ambiguous. Humbert calls Lolita Lo, Guy calls Rosemary Ro. Lo's baby is Ro's baby. Lo types a letter to Humbert dated March 19th. A week later he arrives and she says she is due in 3 months. Putting the birth in late-June - 6/66. Same as Rosemary Woodhouse. 1966 is also the year PID legend states "Paul died". 1962, the year The Beatles signed with EMI. Mason is the money-man for Mengele’s cloning project in Boys From Brazil. In Lolita he gives Lo all his money. Humbert (Mason) is the British invasion, killing the older generation and sleeping with the Baby Boomers, creating a starr/keith Moonchild? It is the Beale kid that hits Lo’s mom (Shelly Winters) with a car. Bea(t)le. Shelly Winters, as Myrtle, gets hit by a car in The Great Gatsby (1949). Mia farrow was in the 1972 Great Gatsby. Mia plays Daisy, the one who ran over Myrtle. HAL sings “Daisy Bell” as he is being lobotomized. First shot in scene with pregnant Lolita is of the city she lives in, which looks a lot like the opening shot to Ro's Baby, with Dakota house. The B-side to Sue Lyon's single from Lolita is "Turn off the Moon"... child? In 1968, The Rolling Stones release “Child of the Moon” as the B-side to “Jumpin’ Jack Flash”. (same year Rosemary's Baby & 2001:ASO came out)www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHBV2yfqEEQThe promo for the “Child of the Moon” was filmed by Michael Lindsay-Hogg, the son of Orson Welles, who also filmed the Paperback Writer & Rain promos as well as the Let It Be documentary. Peter Sellers adopts Ringo in The Magic Christian. Sellers' character in The Magic Christian is named Guy - Same as Ro's husband. The full name is Guy Grand. GG = 77. 7/7 is Ringo's birthdate. The last thing Rosemary sees as she is being impregnated is The Pope’s ring. Ringo plays the Pope in Lisztomania. On the Death Card, three figures are dead or dying while the Pope remains alive. Roman Polanski was also in Magic Christian. Terry Southern wrote Magic Christian and co-wrote Lolita with Kubrick. Southern is on Sgt. Pepper cover. Ira Levin wrote Rosemary’s Baby and The Boys From Brazil. Sue Lyon dated Donovan who went to India with Mia & the Beatles. Lyon was in Tony Rome with Sinatra (Mia's husband). (Rome, Polanski?) Gregory Peck plays Mengele. In The Omen, he was the father of the Anti-Christ, He played the lead role in Roman Holiday. Played Jimmy Ringo, the lead character in The Gunfighter. And starred in the title role of Old Gringo. Shelley Winters was the Dodo while Ringo was the Mock-Turtle in the 1985 tv version of Alice in Wonderland. She plays Lillith Malone in The Devil’s Daughter. Where she finds the daughter of a former fellow coven member, who is the daughter of Satan and wears the ring of the coven. And she played Ruby in Alfie with Jane Asher The modern cover of The Magic Christian features a palm holding a lone heart. We've also got twins, an Eyes Wide Shut mask and a ticket to ride.
|
|
|
Post by maxedison on Dec 6, 2014 22:35:41 GMT -5
Just a quick note... Peter Sellers is widely known for being a man of many faces. No matter what disguise he is wearing you can tell that it is Peter under the wig, behind the mustache, behind the fake nose...... Throughout his career you never wonder if they used a double. The bone structure gives him away every time. Paul? That is another story.
|
|
|
Post by whammo on Dec 30, 2014 18:54:27 GMT -5
Linus, what do you suppose is the effect upon the audience to whom all this occult symbolism is being displayed but don't have a clue? This has got to make up 95% of those who see it. Are they in a real sense being cursed and not aware of it?
|
|
|
Post by linus on Dec 31, 2014 17:48:52 GMT -5
I wouldn't say they're being cursed. I'm open to any possibility, but that's not my stance. I would say the only thing they're (consciously) missing is the archetypal and subtextual energetics of the story. Some directors are obviously and overtly aware of this stratum of their films and it’s affects on the psyche. For instance, the cognitive dissonance experienced by the audience in Kubrick’s films via such things as the subltly changing props and mirror-flipping the film during certain scenes; creating an overall sense of unease. To further illustrate that Kubrick was familiar with the subconscious mind and how to play with it, he has Carl Jung’s Red Book sitting on Ullman’s desk in The Shining. The first chapter is all about this. (Interesting, since The Red Book wasn’t released publicly until 2009). And to drive the point home further, in Poltergeist, the mom is reading Carl Jung’s book Man And His Symbols, but not only that, they actor in the film she’s watching on tv at that very moment is Barry Nelson, who played Ullman in The Shining. And if that wasn’t enough, Nelson’s character is a spirit in heaven in this film, talking to his recently deceased friend who will get to go back down to Earth. Quite relevant to The Shining and Poltergeist. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Guy_Named_JoeIt’s also interesting to note that Carol Anne talks to the spirit in the tv when it is on channel 42, and later when the display reads 2:37, both numbers play prominently in The Shining. There’s also the whole ‘built on graves’ thing going on in both films. Also read about the mysterious and seemingly foreshadowed death of Heather O'Rourke (Carol Anne) in this thread (bottom half). invanddis.proboards.com/thread/3006/rosemarys-baby?page=2Another example is the deeply symbolic film Vanilla Sky, which is also rife with John Lennon syncs. Jung’s book Memories, Dreams, Reflections sits on the table in Cruise’s prison. And if you watch the “making-of” special feature, you will see a shot of director Cameron Crowe’s notebook, with a circled note reading, “Abbey Road – Paul is dead”, so we know he was working with that meme in his film. overlaphotel.blogspot.com/2014/04/vanilla-skies-wide-shut.htmlAnd let's not forget who is in the top row of the Sgt. Pepper crowd,
|
|
|
Post by whammo on Jan 1, 2015 7:24:19 GMT -5
I wouldn't say they're being cursed. I'm open to any possibility, but that's not my stance. I would say the only thing they're (consciously) missing is the archetypal and subtextual energetics of the story. Some directors are obviously and overtly aware of this stratum of their films and it’s affects on the psyche. For instance, the cognitive dissonance experienced by the audience in Kubrick’s films via such things as the subltly changing props and mirror-flipping the film during certain scenes; creating an overall sense of unease. To further illustrate that Kubrick was familiar with the subconscious mind and how to play with it, he has Carl Jung’s Red Book sitting on Ullman’s desk in The Shining. The first chapter is all about this. (Interesting, since The Red Book wasn’t released publicly until 2009). And to drive the point home further, in Poltergeist, the mom is reading Carl Jung’s book Man And His Symbols, but not only that, they actor in the film she’s watching on tv at that very moment is Barry Nelson, who played Ullman in The Shining. And if that wasn’t enough, Nelson’s character is a spirit in heaven in this film, talking to his recently deceased friend who will get to go back down to Earth. Quite relevant to The Shining and Poltergeist. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Guy_Named_JoeIt’s also interesting to note that Carol Anne talks to the spirit in the tv when it is on channel 42, and later when the display reads 2:37, both numbers play prominently in The Shining. There’s also the whole ‘built on graves’ thing going on in both films. Also read about the mysterious and seemingly foreshadowed death of Heather O'Rourke (Carol Anne) in this thread (bottom half). invanddis.proboards.com/thread/3006/rosemarys-baby?page=2Another example is the deeply symbolic film Vanilla Sky, which is also rife with John Lennon syncs. Jung’s book Memories, Dreams, Reflections sits on the table in Cruise’s prison. And if you watch the “making-of” special feature, you will see a shot of director Cameron Crowe’s notebook, with a circled note reading, “Abbey Road – Paul is dead”, so we know he was working with that meme in his film. overlaphotel.blogspot.com/2014/04/vanilla-skies-wide-shut.htmlAnd let's not forget who is in the top row of the Sgt. Pepper crowd, Okay, I get what you're saying but my probing question is... Why? Most of the things you mention seem to me to be the result of someone poring over this material and discovering it. They are never going to discover it watching the film unless they're looking for it. Who watches films and takes note about what book is on their desk? Not your average Joe. And other than "Vanilla Sky" these films were in VHS days, not exactly conducive to freeze framing and taking note of small details like we can do these days in HD. To me the only rational explanation is either they want to burrow deep into our collective subconsciousness, they are leaving breadcrumbs for those who know what to look for, or both. The Beatles have a secret message just for you!I can only compare these things to my own experiences. For example, I believe I was the first person to discover that if you take the photograph of the Fabs in the WWII ruins and flip them upside down it appears to spell FUCK. How I came to notice this was I had that single and would stare at it and daydream occasionally, have no idea why. I was drawn to it. Maybe my subconscious was telling me to do it. As far as the Heather O'Roarke death that is some pretty compelling synchronicity, especially the poster. How did you come to discover that? It reminds me of the Lennon "Best Way to Go is MD&C". One can guess why he was raging at Polanski at that party. Oh, I just bought a copy of that Jung book Heather's mom is reading on Ebay, same edition I am not totally ignorant of such things, I cut my teeth on Wilson Bryan Key in High School.
|
|
|
Post by linus on Jan 1, 2015 22:09:27 GMT -5
Ah yes; why? Seems so that they can inject the certain desired energetics into the film, artwork, etc. (Sort of like a voodoo charm or even a sigil, if you will).For example, The Shining has a lot of commonalities with The Red Book. So putting it there not only says, "yes, I drew inspiration from this", but it also embues the film with that particular 'energy'. If that makes sense, and not to sound too "crystal-hippy".I would also agree with your assessment of "both". Though the idea of them putting clues/breadcrumbs in the films, etc. is done by some directors more than others. With some, there's so much to go on, it is beyond the threshold of coincidence; Kubrick, Polanski, Lindsay Anderson, Zemeckis, most of all. Sometimes it's breadcrumbs, sometimes it's to burrow into the subconscious, sometimes it's both, sometimes it's none of the above. The trouble is, a lot of the time it's hard to tell which it is, so you have to just put it all out there. I'd also add, that things are most clear in the theatre on a big screen. For example, if you ever get the chance to see The Shining in the theatre, go. When the Red Book is there, 6 feet wide, it's plain as day. You can also see that Jack is reading a Playgirl magazine in the lobby while waiting for Ullman. On a dvd, it's almost impossible.
|
|
|
Post by whammo on Jan 1, 2015 22:23:05 GMT -5
Ah yes; why? Seems so that they can inject the certain desired energetics into the film, artwork, etc. (Sort of like a voodoo charm or even a sigil, if you will).I would also agree with your assessment of "both". Though the idea of them putting "clues/breadcrumbs" in the films, etc. is done by some directors more than others. With some, there's so much to go on, it is beyond the threshold of coincidence; Kubrick, Polanski, Lindsay Anderson, Zemeckis, most of all. Sometimes it's breadcrumbs, sometimes it's to burrow into the subconscious, sometimes it's both, sometimes it's none of the above. The trouble is, a lot of the time it's hard to tell which it is, so you have to just put it all out there. I'd also add, that things are most clear in the theatre on a big screen. For example, if you ever get the chance to see The Shining in the theatre, go. When the Red Book is there, 6 feet wide, it's plain as day. You can also see that Jack is reading a Playgirl magazine in the lobby while waiting for Ullman. On a dvd, it's almost impossible. Okay, that makes sense. Attempting to answer my own question there is the whole school of thought that many symbols have been literally buried in our DNA for millenia and manipulating them is sort of a 'backdoor hack' to put it in programming terms. I'm guessing this is what Jung's book is going to say. It is kinda the same as touching upon the Oedipus complex, isn't it? I was really kinda disturbed when I discovered the hidden meaning in the following Virginia Slims ad from the 70s. Do you see what I see? So the obvious 'why' here is to simply sell some cigarettes, but is there more to it?
|
|
|
Post by LOVELYRITA on Jan 2, 2015 19:56:44 GMT -5
Virginia Slims came out when the bra burning women's lib became a big thing. It changed the type of women men brought home to their families....not the girl next door anymore....
|
|