Bill Shepherd - UK Session Musician

[noodles]

Bill Shepherd was (and possibly still is) a composer, arranger and session musician. Both Billy Pepper and the Pepperpots LPs ('Merseymania' and 'More Merseymania') were issued on budget labels to cash in on The Beatles success. They contain some Beatles covers and some compositions by session musician Bill Shepherd. Billy Pepper and the Pepperpots never existed (unless someone can hip me up to something I missed?).













Bill Shepherd started making records in the 1950s and he was still working on production music into the 1980s (I have an inhouse production music LP of his from 1985).

[TotalInformation]

What documentation is there on this alleged person besides names on record labels?

[JoJo]

Billy Pepper and the Pepperpots never existed (unless someone can hip me up to something I missed?).

What do you mean by "never existed"? Their album covers certainly wanted you to believe they did.. Yet they do seem to be absent in any kind of Mersey music history, again one should wonder why.





More

Certainly there may have been a Bill Shepherd, session musician, but we don't know from the information at hand that we are talking about the same one. (Pepperpots vs. the orchestra guy)

[Mellow Yellow]

Actually this makes a hellofalotta sense because I myself have always wondered how Paul be he replaced or not went from a self-taught amature in '62 to being an impresario on Sgt. Pepper by '66

If I knew music well, I would try and reach out to people and tell them how I got to where I was, but not Pauly

listen to how complicated he makes the bass sound in an interview, not only that, but where did he learn all this? He had no teacher, neither did john or george so he didnt learn it from them either!

Like, if you have C to A minor, you might come down by the B, or the B and B, or you might go up to the high A through the G. Then I’ll maybe not go to the root at times and try to “defeat” the chord somewhat, and I’ll try other ideas. I’m a melodicist; I like melodies, which I think you can hear in my songwriting. So I always try to get a bit of melody out of the bass part, but not too much—you can get in the way if you do it all the time or play too many notes. You have to be selective, or else the composer can get a bit annoyed. I don’t think George [Harrison] was too pleased with what I did on “Something” at first; I mean, I had to sell it to him!

www.macca-central.com/macca-archives/bassplayer10-05.php

[luvleerita]

Perhaps the Bill Shepherd, "Orchestra Guy" of the 50's is the father of Bill Shepherd/Sir Paul.
After all, JPM's father was known to be a Big Band kinda guy, so maybe there's a deeper parallel to the JPM/Bill lifeline.

[noodles]

I don't have any definite evidence that they're the same guy yet but everything's reading right. There's no singles by this band which is very odd for a real signed pop band from Liverpool in that era not to put out a few singles. This is the way real bands are generally promoted. Fake bands don't need to be promoted.

All we have is two LPs on two different arms of the same budget label. Budget labels don't generally sign proper bands, they prefer to cash in on pre existing pop bands. The title of the album, the screaming Beatles fans cover photo on the first LP, the mop tops on the second, the Beatles covers that open each side of each album, the long blurb on the back about Liverpool, The Beatles and other Merseyside bands all fit the idea that they're just cashing in the on the Beatles.



There's barely a mention of Billy Pepper and the Pepperpots on either album blurb, no mention of what their names are, or what instruments each member plays, when and how they got together and no mention of any achievements between albums. The writer even calls the band 'Billie Pepper and the Pepperpots' on the second album.

Also we have a Bill Shepherd label match.



The album cover photos aren't exactly entirely convincing either.



I have a certain interest and knowledge on budget labels, easy listening, library/production music and session musicians. In fact it was a mid-Seventies picture of Shadow's drummer, library and session musician legend Brian Bennett being passed off as a double for Brian Epstein that caused me to make my first post on this forum. These guys would do a big orchestral easy session one day, and then some cheesy no-name covers record the next, then they'd be working with some big pop artist and then they'd be in the studio recording production music (premade soundtracks for the broadcasting industry).

It fits that the same Bill Shepherd who penned and possibly played on tracks for the Billy Pepper LPs is the same guy who recorded 'Cowboy Favourites' and those other records.

[beatlies]

The "pepperpot" on the far right in the first photo looks like the American actor William Devane, who was in a failed sitcom this season with Jane Curtin, and who played the evil, Nazi doctor-handling CIA-type official in the movie Marathon Man (1976) starring Dustin Hoffman. Not saying it is him, but it's interesting that there's a strong resemblance.

[jerriwillmore]

Some of you have been wondering if they were a real band. I personally googled names, the company "pickwick international incorporated" that was on the sleeve etc, they all were real. Why doesn't someone try to play detective and track down the Pepperpots company, thier associates, maybe even the band members? What happened to Billy?

[jerriwillmore]

Also check out this post.

www.franklarosa.com/vinyl/Exhibit.jsp?AlbumID=69

[noodles]

jerriwillmore said:

Some of you have been wondering if they were a real band. I personally googled names, the company "pickwick international incorporated" that was on the sleeve etc, they all were real. Why doesn't someone try to play detective and track down the Pepperpots company, thier associates, maybe even the band members? What happened to Billy?

So what did you find via Google? Obviously Pickwick were real. I picked up a nice 'Close Encounters Of The Third Kind' disco record on Pickwick just this week. Roger Easterby (who did the sleevenotes) went on to produce various dreadful UK pop bands such as The Sweet, Vanity Fare and Chicory Tip. Bill Shepherd went on to work with the Bee Gees and Jimmy Fraser (who wrote a number of the tracks on both albums) formed the Fraser Hayes Four who did the musical interludes for the 'Round The Horne' UK radio comedy series.

Tracking down info is very difficult. The nature of Pickwick means there's very little info on it. No one is very interested in labels such as this as most of what they did was just exploito stuff or reissues. Even Wikipedia's page on Pickwick is scant on info. Bill Shepherd died in the 1980s. Jimmy Fraser apparently moved to Miami. No idea where he is now. No idea what happened to Easterby although if he is still alive he should be findable.

[Paul Bearer]

Bill Shepherd went on to work with the Bee Gees...

In light of recent information which indicates that The BeeGees may have helped composed some of the Beatles later works and/or Faul's solo music, this is rather interesting.

[fourthousandholes]

jerriwillmore said:

Also check out this post.

www.franklarosa.com/vinyl/Exhibit.jsp?AlbumID=69

Jerri, Did you notice this reply in the comment section of that link?

Steve B Key ([e-mail]) says:
Dear Frank,
congratulations for your awesome collection!!!
I have a request: I DO NEED a 300 dpi scans of the guys of that cover
(BEAT!!! THE MERSERYSIDE SOUND!)and to know the true name of Billy Pepper.
It's VITAL!

Thank You!
Steve

(08-26-2004)

;D

I found the following comments interesting:

Greg ([e-mail]) says:
Actually, they had three different album covers for this same record: one with five (5); one with two (2)'
& one with one (1) picture, all picture from the five picture album. Now, THAT'S Creative packaging.
The Beat, alias the Mercy Beats, alias the Mersey Beats of Liverpool, alias the Liverpool Beats
produced at least three different albums, that had different songs.
The two others are "A Hard Day's Night - The Merseybeats of Liverpool" (almost sounds like a Beatle album title!)
and "The Mersey Hits -The Mersey Beats of Liverpool." It looks like the records
were produced in Canada under the Arc International Record Co. label and one cut "I'll Keep You Satisified"
was charted for eight weeks or more by leading Canadian radio stations including Toronto's CKEY.
Any mor info out there??? (11-05-2003)

Steven says:
I have a similar Beatles exploitation album on Diplomat Records.
It's called "The New Sound From England BEATLERAMA With The Manchesters".
Songs include "I Want To Hold Your Hand", "She Loves You", "My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean",
"The Beatles Move", "Shortening Bread", etc. There was a whole slew of these budget label,
faux-Beatles albums in the early 60's: "The Beetle Beat"/The Buggs,
"The Bearcuts Swing in Beatlemania", Beat-A-Mania!", "Do The Beetle"... (03-18-2003)

this poor bastard:

Eddie Starr ([e-mail]) says:
Wow, I can't believe I actually found "The Liverpool Beats".
This is hillarious.. You see the very next day after I saw the Beatles on The Ed Sullivan Show
I BEGGED my mom to buy me a Beatles record and this is what she brought home.
I remember actually thinking it was the Beatles and use to play "I Saw Her Standing There"
and "I Want to Hold Your Hand" over and over wearing my Beatle wig while strumming
a tennis racket and looking at my own reflection in a broken TV set in the basement.
I was only 8 years old so I didn't even realize how retarded this group sounded until my friend
Kenny Smith brought his actual 45 of The Beatles "I Want to Hold Your Hand" single over to the house.
I am now 46 years old and my entire life have had this wierd song in my head from that album
which started with a guy singing the words "Boo wee dee oop" and then he'd go "Ooh wee ooh[/color] woo".
Then he'd sing "Seems to me, nothing ever goes right". So for the hell of it I go to google and look up
"The Liverpool Beats" and God Damn there they are. This is hillarious! (10-24-2002)


Joseph Gallant ([e-mail]) says:
Although I don't have this album,
I do have a Design (Pickwick International) album that must have come out a little later
called "Discotheque", which had various artists doing various songs in various dance tempos
(from swing to merengue to rock).
Three of the songs listed in "Beats!" appear on the "Discotheque" album I have:
"Maybe I Will" "Tell Me I'm The One", and "Got To Get Another Girl".....

There are some other interesting comments on that site about where this stuff may have come from.

Noodles wrote: "Bill Shepherd died in the 1980s".

What is your source for that information?
Also I am somewhat inclined to go along with the notion of "Bill" as father,
and "Billy" as son, but it's just a hunch.

Last but not least: This statement in tiny print on the back of one of the album covers JoJo posted:

"I specially recommend that you take a listen to the boys' brilliant revival of "Jericho";
for this spiritual, given the Mersey Treatment, just about sums up what this music is all about. .......Roger Easterby"

A somewhat Apollo-esque statement, if I say so myself.
There has to be more to that statement than meets the "I".
Noodles wrote:
"No idea what happened to Easterby although if he is still alive he should be findable."

[fourthousandholes]

4KH wrote:
"Greg ([e-mail]) says:
Actually, they had three different album covers for this same record: one with five (5); one with two (2)'
& one with one (1) picture, all picture from the five picture album. Now, THAT'S Creative packaging.
The Beat, alias the Mercy Beats, alias the Mersey Beats of Liverpool, alias the Liverpool Beats
produced at least three different albums, that had different songs.
The two others are "A Hard Day's Night - The Merseybeats of Liverpool" (almost sounds like a Beatle album title!)
and "The Mersey Hits -The Mersey Beats of Liverpool." It looks like the records
were produced in Canada under the Arc International Record Co. label and one cut "I'll Keep You Satisified"
was charted for eight weeks or more by leading Canadian radio stations including Toronto's CKEY.
Any more info out there??? (11-05-2003)"

You'd think the Beatles would have sued for such a blatant rip-off.
I think the fact that they didn't says something: That it may have been an inside job. An 'in-house' spin off.
Of course, they may not have been organized enough, at that point, to be filing lawsuits.

[noodles]

fourthousandholes said:

4KH wrote:
"Greg ([e-mail]) says:
Actually, they had three different album covers for this same record: one with five (5); one with two (2)'
& one with one (1) picture, all picture from the five picture album. Now, THAT'S Creative packaging.
The Beat, alias the Mercy Beats, alias the Mersey Beats of Liverpool, alias the Liverpool Beats
produced at least three different albums, that had different songs.
The two others are "A Hard Day's Night - The Merseybeats of Liverpool" (almost sounds like a Beatle album title!)
and "The Mersey Hits -The Mersey Beats of Liverpool." It looks like the records
were produced in Canada under the Arc International Record Co. label and one cut "I'll Keep You Satisified"
was charted for eight weeks or more by leading Canadian radio stations including Toronto's CKEY.
Any more info out there??? (11-05-2003)"

You'd think the Beatles would have sued for such a blatant rip-off.
I think the fact that they didn't says something: That it may have been an inside job. An 'in-house' spin off.
Of course, they may not have been organized enough, at that point, to be filing lawsuits.

Sued for what? Unless they covered 'A Hard Days Night' without clearing the publishing then there would be nothing to sue for. Not based on what we know from that post at least.
Source for Bill Shepherd's death comes from several Bee Gees sites. This one states 'late 1980s'. I'm pretty sure I read it was 1988 on one site.

Bill Shepherd

source

[fourthousandholes]

Noodles wrote: "Sued for what?"

Sued for putting out an album with the title "A Hard Day's Night... (etc.)"
The "crime" would be trademark/copyright infringement or something along those lines;
not recording the song without permission.

I found the picture to be very interesting, to say the least.



"I-Lurk-Therefore-I-Am" once posted these words at TKIN:

"I've posted before as Big GM and Emotionally Dumbfounded.
I am not your regular troll. "

60if.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=forum&action=display&thread=1073534448&page=4

I believe that "I-Lurk-Therefore-I-Am" is Apollo C Vermouth[/b] because the post is very much in his style.

Anyone who is old enough will remember toy trolls that were the rage in the 1960s and 1970's
that looked exactly like the picture of Bill. Or should I say Apollo?

If we're getting posts from Apollo (Bill), he's not dead.
Or Apollo is Billy, not Bill.
Or the photo is of Billy; not Bill. My best guess is#2 and #3.

[Red Lion]

fourthousandholes said:

I believe that "I-Lurk-Therefore-I-Am" is Apollo C Vermouth

[/b] because the post is very much in his style.


[/quote]

Its not Apollo.

[Jai Guru Deva]

While I wouln't completely rule out the possibility, I don't believe the man in the picture is Paul McCartney. To my eye there appear some immediate differences. However, just to try to help satisfy any curiousity about a theoretical notion that Paul and Bill simply switched places, let's get a fade of Bill Shepherd and JPM.

[fourthousandholes]

redlion said:

fourthousandholes said:

I believe that "I-Lurk-Therefore-I-Am" is Apollo C Vermouth

[/b] because the post is very much in his style.
[/quote]

Its not Apollo.[/quote]

Red Lion,
You are saying "I-Lurk-Therefore-I-Am" isn't Apollo?
He wasn't a "troll" in the usual sense; that's for sure.

My gut feeling is that the Biill Shepherd shown above is not "our" Apollo C Vermouth,
but I think "Roger Easterly" very well could be, given his statement on the record album,
which definitely is "not as it seems", to use an Apolloism.

[fourthousandholes]

Let's try this again.
Here is one of the trolls:
cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TAB-TROLL-IN-RED-AND-WHITE-DRESS-W-APRON_W0QQitemZ110019986205QQihZ001QQcategoryZ18819QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Compare to:



So when ""I-Lurk-Therefore-I-Am" posted these words at TKIN:

"I've posted before as Big GM and Emotionally Dumbfounded.
I am not your regular troll. "

I suspected something was up, because he wasn't a "troll" at all.

Which makes me think that "I Lurk" is an insider who is having a self-deprecating laugh with his post,
the contents of which follow:

60if.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=Essential&action=display&thread=1098612008

(11/12/03)
"I'm afraid I will never be able to register at this forum.
I'll be reading continuously and I might post again as a guest.
I've posted before as Big GM and Emotionally Dumbfounded. I am not your regular troll.
I know the truth as well. Thank you for fighting the fight.

You have seen the light and you've got followers. I urge everyone to follow the path.
It may be long and winding but it has been generously bordered with candles
(I'd rather say halogen spotlights, but candles sounds so much more poetic, n'est pas?)
by our friend Sun King.

You can't go astray. Just follow the path
that has been prepared for you and you will find the source of truth.

It's straight ahead. Never give up. Warriors of the lost one. "
(end quote)

Significance of his other names, imo:
Big GM - "Baby You Can Drive My Car"
Emotionally Dumbfounded - "Maybe I'm Amazed"
"straight ahead" - "First star to the right and straight ahead until morning... " from the book "The Little Prince"

Incidentally, in posting this quote, I am not saying you should buy into what SunKing has said at TKIN;
just saying that the "spotlights" remark has really made it clear to me that the PID/PWR story is a "big picture".

So...I say "I lurk" is probably the "Bill Shepherd" shown in the pictue.
But if Bill Shepherd died in the late 1980's, then he can't be posting anywhere, which means:

a.) He may not really be dead
b.) He is dead, and the picture shown above is actually "Billy Shepherd" (a son)
c.) None of the above

I'm going with b.
And I'm guessing, but not claiming, that Roger Easterly may be Apollo C Vermouth,
because his comment about the song "Joshua" makes no sense, given that apparently it really sucks
(see comments in link posted above), unless it means something other than what it sounds like it means,
which, imo, it does.

I hope that clears things up, and may be of use to people in the pursuit of knowledge of the material
on this thread. ;D

[lili]

I was of the opinion that the big GM may be referring to George Martin. I wouldn't be surprised if George Martin IS Apollo C. Vermouth, and I lurk therefore I am.

[JoJo]

I'm content with the identity of ACV remaining a mystery. Of course there are some intriguing possibilities, and it's human nature to be curious, right?

He's welcome to join me at my favorite pub for a beer, as I've told him. ;D

Well, a beer and some interesting conversation, two things I can't resist.. Have to be an intriguing story no matter what it is.

Odds of it happening = very very remote, but what the hey.

[Paul Bearer]

There was a Canadian Billy Shepherd musician who died in the late 80s. There use to be a bio on a website somewhere but I think it suddenly disappeared. He was supposedly a jazz musician but, going by memory, he looked alot like the guy on the back of the MMT bus. I wish it was still up so we could compare them. anyone remember the web page I'm talking about?

[fourthousandholes]

jojo said:

I'm content with the identity of ACV remaining a mystery. Of course there are some intriguing possibilities, and it's human nature to be curious, right?
He's welcome to join me at my favorite pub for a beer, as I've told him. ;D
Well, a beer and some interesting conversation, two things I can't resist.. Have to be an intriguing story no matter what it is.
Odds of it happening = very very remote, but what the hey.

Not as remote as you might think JoJo.
I'd encourage you to employ the power of positive thinking in this particular instance.
My intention wasn't to "out" Apollo, but that statement by Mr. Easterly just 'fits the shoe' a bit well.
I'd be disappointed if he is ACV simply because Merseymania is such a "wannabe" endeavor.
I'd prefer that he was someone involved with the real product.
George Martin would be a good start.
We all know who Apollo C Vermouth "was"...

P.S. I can't over-emphasize how significant I feel that "I lurk" 's comment is. Think BIG.

[lili]

I know that it was stated at TKIN that either Paul or Bill used that name. It's been awhile since I read it, so I forget which.

[JoJo]

lili said:

I know that it was stated at TKIN that either Paul or Bill used that name. It's been awhile since I read it, so I forget which.

That would be Bill, as a contributor to a Bonzo album. Apollo is also a character on a message board, which could mean...who knows really..

P.S. I can't over-emphasize how significant I feel that "I lurk" 's comment is. Think BIG.

The claim was that "Big GM" was more than a random screen name, and SK posted that in a public part of the forum, so I'm not giving anything away. Something about where the images he posted were from, and I can't remember if it was BBC or EMI.