Now the time has come, and so my love I must go..

[Jude]

Like Mellow Yellow before me, I too must leave the PID scene because of certain issues I have with PID. Or rather, the PID/PIA scenes themselves.

There is no polythenepam. This post was written by me. The fact that I used a fake identity is irrelevant. Allow me to explain: For a long time I'm had the conviction that even if Paul was replaced he was replaced by someone who looks a lot more like Paul than most people in the PID scene give him credit for. For instance, though mommybird will sometimes say "Bill does bear some resemblance to Paul", certain others will also call Bill names like "ugly" and "ogreish" while also appraising Paul as "cute" and "adorable". It's this sort of ignorance and senseless hatred of "Faul" that led to my decision: that I would photoshop a picture of 1966 JPM to look like Bill. And yes, I've seen much better photoshops, but it proves my point: all I needed to do was to raise his hairline a few inches and add a mustache and PRESTO: Instant Bill! I changed nothing else in the photo. Only the hair was edited and only a mustache was added. And yet, his forehead magically looks larger, his face somehow looks older. I could prove to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that he looks like the Strawberry Fields Forever video Paul by posting a photo comparison, but what good would it do? No one, not a single person aside from pauliedied recognized that Paul looked SFF Bill. This frustrated me to no end.

I've seen the photo fades, I've seen the photo comparisons....I've been around the PID block many, many, many times, spending hours doing comparisons of my own. I've downloaded rare footage, listened to dozens and dozens of bootleg recordings and I've come to the carefully-thought-out conclusion that the differences aren't that startling. I know some people are going to be in stark disagreement with that statement (LovelyRita, eyesbleed I'm look at you) and may even feel angry at me or betrayed that I should suddenly express such feelings. But I can't keep holding it inside. I don't think Paul is alive, but I'm not so sure he's dead, either. All I know is that physical comparisons and vocal comparisons aren't good enough. The replacement could easily have been Paul's brother....iamaphoney seems to think so, and there's no evidence to prove that James or Mary didn't have any children from relationships prior to their marriage. Looking incredibly alike and sounding incredibly alike doesn't mean Paul isn't dead, because there are hundreds of Paul is dead clues that don't rely on photos or vocal comparisons. To be honest, there's just no hard evidence that Paul is dead----just tons and tons of "clues". Tons of creepy coincidences as well as testimonies from people who claim to know for a fact that he is dead. There are a lot of reasons to believe that Paul is dead (many of which are covered in the RA series), and I don't need a photo comparison to boost my faith.

The past six months have been fun, but it's also been very difficult. In the past couple of months I've had to respond to and delete many comments from angry PIAers on my YouTube account. I defended PID at Macca FunHouse and was subsequently banned from posting there (and no, I wasn't banned by Miss Vaggie). That means within a six month period I got banned from both the PID and PIA communities....I really am a troublemaker, aren't I?

I'm just frustrated. I'm frustrated here, I'm frustrated with MFH....Youtube has me really stressed out because the pressure has been on me for over a month to make a new video but I'm just not feeling inspired. I'm frustrated with everything right now, and that's no good. I need to get away from PID altogether, and the only way I know how to do that is to leave NIR.
I don't know when/if I'll be back...I suppose I can't stay away for too long, but, on the other hand I doubt anyone would miss me anyhow.

Mommybird, Jarvitronics, plastic paul, Miss Vaggie, CoconutFudge, tafultong, Mike.....it's been fun.

Jude

[LOVELYRITA]

You may have pointed me out in a negative way, and I don't know the intentions of that, but it's unfortunate that you feel you have to leave the forum. I'm sorry when people get themselves stressed out over this issue, either side of the argument of PID/PIA or for those who are avid Bill fans opposed to those who may point out harsh criticisms towards Bill in any manner.

We may not agree on all points and many have their own definite ideas that is real to them. I myself have ideas that point to certain possibilities, though I have no proof and I don't expect all to agree. It's not important to me that all agree or even if some agree. It's not the point to expect everyone to comment on everything written here.

The time I left the forum earlier this year was partly due to the lack of activity in the forum for a while, and partly due to things going on in my personal life that coming to this site was no longer interesting for me or even a creative outlet for me.

It's unfortunate you felt you had to debate PID on PIA forums, which to me is futile because those who frequent those sites have it in their hearts and minds to believe Bill is Paul and those who think otherwise are just wasting time in their estimation. I don't personally go to those sites simply because it would frustrate me to read their posts and comparisons when I clearly believe differently. I don't want to spend my time debating any issues, political, PID/PIA issues, etc. People will believe what they want to and when someone speaks of different perspectives, it just shuts down any communication. If people want to discuss something without name calling or insulting, it would be a different thing.

Maybe there are other issues you are dealing with and this is not helping. Whatever it may be, I hope you can resolve these issues that cause the extreme frustrations you are having towards the forum. Perhaps some time away from the entire PID/PIA thing will be what you need to re group and return some time away. This is an intense issue and it can be draining when you put alot of time and effort into videos, photos, audio clips, etc to compare to each other.

We hate to see anyone leave with a bitterness or frustration. Allow yourself time to heal and maybe you'll be ready to return some day.

[iameye]

jude said:

Mommybird, Jarvitronics, plastic paul, Miss Vaggie, CoconutFudge, tafultong, Mike.....it's been fun.

Jude

hey Jude,

ya forgot me!

how could you forget me not?

see ya when you come back.

[plastic paul]

He'll be back, they always come back!

Seriously though, I hope you do, but in the event that you don't, you are right, it has been fun and I think your insights will be missed round here.

[skyward]

iameye said:

jude said:

Mommybird, Jarvitronics, plastic paul, Miss Vaggie, CoconutFudge, tafultong, Mike.....it's been fun.

Jude

hey Jude,

ya forgot me!

how could you forget me not?

see ya when you come back.

Forgot me, too, Iameye.

For what it is worth, Jude, when I saw that topic with the 'charcoal drawing like photoshop' from polythene pam, I felt it was another obvious goof pic and I didn't want to waste time responding to something I felt was similar to the other recent goof pic of the 'elephant man' looking Paul photoshop that ramone posted.

I'm like you in that I feel that I don't know enough to say that Faul is this or that, I can't piss on the guy without knowing how he was involved in any potential scheme. I also like many of his songs, and I assume that he wrote them, though that might not be the case.

[JoJo]

Oh yeah, that was you, I must be slipping.

I don't know when/if I'll be back...I suppose I can't stay away for too long, but, on the other hand I doubt anyone would miss me anyhow.

*tsk* That's not true Jude, believe it or not, I do like ya. Yes, I banned you, but I didn't intend it to be for more than a day or two, I just got tweaked a bit. I never did a ban for a reason so arbitrary, and I do apologise, really. We sure had some interesting exchanges on Youtube, no?

If this subject matter is making you crazy/you're pulling your hair out, then you probably should take a break. But, you're always welcome back.

[skyward]

How about starting a new topic that tackles the issues that have gotten under your skin?

The PIA crowd can be too much to handle if you go out on a limb and post a YouTube video that questions 'history', should that be expected?

Then there is the wide range of people who vary with their conviction that PID or that PWR.

How sure are you that Paul died and that Faul is a double? I'm not 100% sure, I believe that it is possible but I can't tell you one way or the other... I lean more toward the side that JPM was replaced for whatever reason (death, sickness), my immediate, gut reaction is that there are at least two guys in the 60s, though don't know why there were doubles/triples.

I do think that there is more than meets the eye in Beatles material, just like many other artists, and even that alone is worth discussing, e.g. the Crowley connection and influence in Beatles/Faul's work.

[jarvitronics]

Peace. Good luck. Hope to see you back soon.

-j

[tafultong]

Well, I don't know what I can add to what others have said. You have made some terrific contributions here and you will be missed. I think that Jojo's message in particular illustrates the quality of this group. It is the best one around, period.

I hope you do get inspired, not only to make more contributions here, but also to make more videos. You always seemed humbled by the support you received for them here, but the praise was well justified.

Be at Leso.

[Mellow Yellow]

Like Mellow Yellow before you, you will return to the forum

[That Latvian Guy]

You will certainly be missed at this forum.

[iameye]

you ment be missed, right?

[That Latvian Guy]

iameye said:

you ment be missed, right?

Yes, of course ;D

[65if2007]

I've found out that I can't divorce myself from this subject, although I should have better things to do with my life.

The subject is still too intoxicating and I still find myself spending more time on it than (maybe) I really should.

Funny thing is that while no one recognized polythenepam as Jude, I actually don't remember anyone being fooled by his (intentional) photoshop either. I don't think that that photoshop proved his point.

That having been said, as someone who is himself on the fence, I agree with a number of things that Jude said.

There are certainly photo comparisons and fades that seem to work better from a PIA standpoint and from a PID/PWR standpoint (and others the other way around -- which makes the task of determining the truth seem so confusing and the truth itself so elusive).

I've produced some of the old and new photos that seem to "match" pretty well and suggested that maybe Faul -- if there is a Faul -- is an unknown lookalike relative of Paul's ("He was my brother") who was used as a double (mainly for photo shoots/personal appearances) before September 1966 and who might have been pressed into full-time service (for whatever reason) afterward.

That sounds like a reasonable possible reconciliation of the apparent contradiction -- but what I heard was "Oh no; what happened was that THEY went back and retouched all of those old photos to make Paul seem more like Faul".

Well, I have a problem with the concept of a "THEY" who are ubiquitious enough to do such a thing. I think that such a concept is indicative of a certain amount of intellectual stagnation (sorry -- but that IS a milder term than that which was used by Jude) on the PID side.

So I can understand Jude's dissatisfaction.

Yet notwithstanding that, I still think that it's the PID side that demonstrates more intellectual ferment. For one thing, there's only one real PIA/PWNR scenario while there are a number of PID/PWR scenarios.

And for another, as a group, PIA's -- who after all, hold the conventional position -- find it too easy to use the very conventionality of their position as a rhetorical crutch. They find it too easy to fall back on the rhetorical device of ridicule which is more available to the conventional position than to the non-conventional ones.

If there's some intellectual stagnation on the PID/PWR side, there is also a great deal of atrophy -- I would say much more -- on the PIA/PWNR side. Maybe, in the end, they will be proven right, but that doesn't change the truth of that observation for here and now.

Finally, I'm more interested in PID/PWR than in PIA/PWNR because of the sheer arrogance inherent in what happened in the late 1960's.

I love so much of the Beatles music -- both the early and later varieties (I have little interest in what any of the band members did afterwards).

Yet the whole PID scare thing is reminiscent of the arrogance that celebrity is capable of.

Because regardless of what the truth is, there can be no reasonable doubt that the Beatles and others involved in the production of the music told the public surreptitiously that Paul McCartney was dead.

Some of the clues to that effect that were supposed to have been found are/were spurious, but others are/were as real as can be. And Paul did change from 1966 to 1967 -- or at least he SEEMED TO.

Yet when people found those clues (I suspect that they were not intended to be found as early as they actually were found), the entire Beatles establishment, including all four band members, acted shocked that anyone would actually respond to the surreptitious messages. They acted shocked that anyone would believe that Paul McCartney was dead -- and how dare you even ask?

John Lennon's whiny denials ("How could we DO this? I don't understand") aren't convincing; they come off as protesting too much.

"How could we DO this?" I've always wondered that myself; it's the best PIA argument in the world -- successfully pulling off such a substitution, at first blush, seems virtually impossible.

But maybe the best response to Lennon would have been, "It shouldn't have been so difficult for an ensemble that was even bigger than Jesus Christ".

"We never said the things that we said. How dare you even accuse of saying the things that we said? How dare you ask us to respond to them?"

I'm intrigued by the way in which the power of celebrity often serves to shield celebrities from accountability.

It's why politicians so often get away with things that regular people do not -- and the distinction between entertainment and politics has become considerably blurred over the last few years.

So I think that PID/PWR is overall a healthy thing. I think that people should maintain a PID/PWR perspective accompanied by an equally strong sense of skepticism until answers are provided to just what exactly happened between 1966 and 1969 and why it happened.

[JoJo]

Bravo 65if2007.

And for another, as a group, PIA's -- who after all, hold the conventional position -- find it too easy to use the very conventionality of their position as a rhetorical crutch. They find it too easy to fall back on the rhetorical device of ridicule which is more available to the conventional position than to the non-conventional ones.

Agreed, it's also rather tiresome to read, even if you try to be patient, and let people have their "free speech". I find that the ones who cry about their rights being trampled (on the boards, not talking about the world at large here) tend to be the ones who are most abusive of that right. It's an old troll game, after a time, you learn not to fall for it..

...including all four band members, acted shocked that anyone would actually respond to the surreptitious messages....

Funny, that. Maybe that was part of a larger message which people didn't get, and the fact that they stopped at one piece of the puzzle and proceeded no further is what bothered them so much. But of course, 99% of the time, anyone who puts a non straightforward message into anything is going to deny it.

I've found out that I can't divorce myself from this subject, although I should have better things to do with my life.

Well... yeah.. but it's too fascinating to leave, yes. I'll be interested in it until I'm 100, or the world ends, whichever comes first.

[MikeNL]

No more Jude , you are a very nice person to talk to... i'll hope you come back soon

Bye Jude,
Don't wait to long...
for you to come back, to NIR
remember, we'll always be in your heart
no matter where you are, we still love ya...

better, better, better, better WHAAAAA
nanananana, nananana, bye jude!

Mike

[plastic paul]

65if2007 said:

Funny thing is that while no one recognized polythenepam as Jude, I actually don't remember anyone being fooled by his (intentional) photoshop either. I don't think that that photoshop proved his point.

That was the point that I considered making, yet thought that that would probably only serve to fuel the fire.

As Joe said, your post was very good.

I think the point is that no-one really wants to see Jude leave, but alas I don't think we can change his mind for the time being.

[mommybird]

Jude, I know that you have been thinking about doing this for awhile.
I haven't been as productive here as I have been in the past.
I think that I'm on the verge of burning out myself, so I can definitely relate to how you feel.
I can't tell you what you should & shouldn't see. Who truly understands the human brain ? I have listened to hundreds of hours of EVPS over the past 5 years. Sometimes other people will hear what I hear. Sometimes they won't. Sometimes I'll hear something, and when I go back to listen for it another time, I'll hear something else instead.
There are certain photos of Bill in which he really looks like Paul. I have to say that in the majority of them the resemblance isn't as striking.
I've noticed that he looks most like Paul when he's inbetween surgeries. They have spent the past 40 years tweaking him to make him look as much like Paul as possible.
I do know that there was an earlier Faul who looked more like Paul. I don't know if he is the SFF Faul. I think that he is. He had a smaller forehead, and the long luscious dark lashes that Paul had. The only reason that I know he isn't Paul is because he's wearing the fake ears. He gave me a run for my money, that's for sure.
You have great temerity & tenaciousness to take on the PIAers.
I salute your valiant efforts. I will defend you on YouTube whereever I might see you having a problem. You can call on me anytime, if you need that kind of help. The thing is, I don't go on YouTube as often as you do.
Take care my friend, I know that I will miss you.

[mindgames]

Well damn Rita at least you got a mention (just kidding)

I think a big problem with Pid is that people get to serious about it, you have to keep a sense of humor about it to remain sane. We have established social truths (wether they are true are not) You can't just start breaking all your conditioning, questioning everything you thought you knew, breaking down paradigms without taking some time to find some humor, irony or sarcasim in it all.

The greater deception is not Jude's faking a photo (didn't he admit it in the origional post?) It is this PolythenePam charade, why are you trying to play "mindgames" with us?

MAybe MACCA Dumbhouse folks are set in thier ways but I am still open to debate the issues (at least issues that interest me).

I know you are quick to defend Faul, but if Faul truly is a phony then he is not a good person, there is other evidence that he is a swarmy character if someone wants to criticize him that is thier right to do so regardless of what kind of person he is. Why get bothered unless you know him personally or you are a big big fan?

Regardless I will miss you have a nice rest from all this, I don't allways agree with you but I respect you. Come back soon.

[B]

I think all of us have less energy this time of year.
I go through cycles when this topic is hot for me, and times when I'm "out to lunch".
This is one of those "out to lunch" periods, but that's OK.
Best wishes, Jude. You've added a lot to the forum.

[jarvitronics]

letterb1 said:

I go through cycles when this topic is hot for me, and times when I'm "out to lunch".

I hear you LB. Seems to me it's the natural order of things. He roller coaster. Ain't we all?

Have a nice break Jude. Let off some steam. Realize the pressure you feel is all self-imposed.

Relax and feel the love.

-j

[65if2007]

I appreciate the kudos that I received from JoJo and Plastic Paul.

Upon reviewing everything that Jude said, including the thread that he started as "polythene Pam", I see that I should amend my prior observations.

What Jude is apparently upset at is not that anyone was so readily eager to be fooled and easy to fool by his photoshop (no one really was) but at the fact that his photoshop wasn't readily recognizable as bearing a resemblance to "Strawberry Fields Faul" (SFF).

I think that his point is that SFF has been described as so sinister-looking and un-Paul-like as to make a strong case for PID/PWR -- and so PID/PWR people are not being 100% honest with themselves if they don't recognize that the vintage picture actually bears a resemblance to SFF if you draw a mustache on it.

But that's not really fair. There are so many pictures available for comparison and so many that have been discussed that it was not realistic to suppose that everyone would anticipate the direction in which "polythene Pam" was taking the conversation or the comparison that "she" really wished -- underneath "her" guise as a newcomer to the inquiry -- for others to make.

I don't mean to jump on Jude -- as I said earlier, I think that he made some valid points -- but I don't think that it's right to regard the legitimate confusion of others as being the same as "bad faith".

As for his more substantive point, I'll acknowledge that to my mind, there IS a physical resemblance between the vintage photo (plus drawn-on mustache) and SFF -- enough of a resemblance to allow them to be taken for the same individual -- but not enough of one such that I would feel comfortable SWEARING that they were the same individual.

[mindgames]

Baby come back! You can blame it all on me, I was wrong and I just can't live with out you!





Rita take the bridge!

[mindgames]

umh Jude can I have your avatar since you won't be needing it? Don't mind me I in a very silly mood!

[mommybird]

Is this the guy who Jude referred to as SFF Faul ?




He's the one who had the smaller forehead & dark eyelashes, but you can see that his ear is fake.

I'm not sure if it's the same guy in the photo below. However, I'm including it because his ears look strange.