Jude
Hard Day's Night
Acting Naturally
Posts: 34
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Post by Jude on Apr 21, 2008 12:31:48 GMT -5
I don't have a closed mind on the subject. But having read the book, it seems to me that it contains no hidden meanings---it's a story about a boy who hates the world, suffers bouts of depression, and in the end gets help. That's the redeeming factor of Holden (besides his strong sense of compassion and justice): the fact that in the end, he sought professional help. He didn't let his inner demons continue to ruin his life. Mark David Chapman did.
And as for the book's title, had you read the book you'd know as well as I do why it is called "Catcher in the Rye".
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Post by iameye on Apr 21, 2008 12:38:35 GMT -5
well, it's also been said it was a convenient rhyme/mantra used for brainwashing MDC....
what is most curious, to me, is the OZ connection, as to why he was running around with a MGM Grand OZ poster of Dorothy and the Lion. That and the lion/walrus connection in advertising ( and what else?) is also interesting....
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Post by horseloverphat on Apr 21, 2008 12:49:03 GMT -5
Your response leaves me with nothing else other than to surmise that...
You're not over familiar with 'multi-faceted' interpretations and sometimes 'veiled' meanings...I take it?
Like the 'Pepper' cover as an obvious example.
Have you got anything worthwhile to add...or is this a hobby of yours....busting balls.
I'll leave you with Pike....seems fitting.
"The Blue Degrees are but the outer portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally mislead by false interpretation. It is not intended that he understand them, but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. "
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Post by horseloverphat on Apr 21, 2008 12:51:02 GMT -5
Yup...me too. A can of worms that one.
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Jude
Hard Day's Night
Acting Naturally
Posts: 34
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Post by Jude on Apr 21, 2008 16:14:19 GMT -5
Your response leaves me with nothing else other than to surmise that... You're not over familiar with 'multi-faceted' interpretations and sometimes 'veiled' meanings...I take it? Well, since the book is obviously an allegory about LSD and brainwashing, how lucky Salinger was that there happened to be a song called "When A Body Meets a Body (Comin' Through The Rye)" to offer a suitable explanation of the book's title to the ignorant masses. Pepper's "veiled meanings" (if indeed there are meant to be any), are at least obvious. It looks like a grave because it IS a grave---Derek Taylor himself admitted to it. None of the Beatles ever denied that it was the scene of a grave. My point is, instead of just saying "Oh, well Salinger worked for intel so this book must mean something", actually dig into the book itself and try to explain how or why it would be used to brainwash anyone. It's one of my favorite books, and yet even though I can easily think of someone I'd like to beat the bloody shit out of I can't imagine shooting someone whose principles I disagree with the way Mark David Chapman did.
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Post by vince on Apr 21, 2008 16:58:51 GMT -5
I also blame that movie "Conspiracy Theory" for 'inflating' the "Catcher In The Rye" myth!
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Jude
Hard Day's Night
Acting Naturally
Posts: 34
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Post by Jude on Apr 21, 2008 17:16:00 GMT -5
Hey---I really like that movie!
But you're right, it did help spread the myth. Poor Chapman never meant to drag Salinger's name through the mud. He sent a few letters of apology to Mr. Salinger, but unsurprisingly, never heard back from him.
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Post by vince on Apr 21, 2008 17:47:55 GMT -5
Makes you think if THAT movie was deliberate! i mean, MEL GIBSON? C'mon! Sorry, I know I'm a newbie. I'm not sayin' it's a bad movie. Heck, shows ya' how to WATERBOARD somebody!
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Post by iburiedpaul on Apr 22, 2008 11:44:12 GMT -5
As a former English teacher, I got pretty excited about this... The novel took its title from a line by Robert Burns, in which the protagonist Holden Caulfied misquoting it sees himself as a 'catcher in the rye' who must keep the world's children from falling off 'some crazy cliff' www.kirjasto.sci.fi/salinger.htmInstead of acknowledging that adulthood scares and mystifies him, Holden invents a fantasy that adulthood is a world of superficiality and hypocrisy (“phoniness”), while childhood is a world of innocence, curiosity, and honesty. Nothing reveals his image of these two worlds better than his fantasy about the catcher in the rye: he imagines childhood as an idyllic field of rye in which children romp and play; adulthood, for the children of this world, is equivalent to death—a fatal fall over the edge of a cliff. His created understandings of childhood and adulthood allow Holden to cut himself off from the world by covering himself with a protective armor of cynicism. But as the book progresses, Holden’s experiences, particularly his encounters with Mr. Antolini and Phoebe, reveal the shallowness of his conceptions. The Phoniness of the Adult World “Phoniness,” which is probably the most famous phrase from The Catcher in the Rye, is one of Holden’s favorite concepts. It is his catch-all for describing the superficiality, hypocrisy, pretension, and shallowness that he encounters in the world around him. In Chapter 22, just before he reveals his fantasy of the catcher in the rye, Holden explains that adults are inevitably phonies, and, what’s worse, they can’t see their own phoniness. Phoniness, for Holden, stands as an emblem of everything that’s wrong in the world around him and provides an excuse for him to withdraw into his cynical isolation. www.sparknotes.com/lit/catcher/themes.htmlmore of the same: www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=16599
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Jude
Hard Day's Night
Acting Naturally
Posts: 34
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Post by Jude on Apr 22, 2008 12:52:41 GMT -5
Excellent analysis, iburiedpaul!
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Post by mommybird on Apr 22, 2008 13:10:17 GMT -5
I saw your epitaph to Linda under your post. Linda died at age 57. George died at age 58. I find that to be a disturbing coincidence.
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Post by horseloverphat on Apr 22, 2008 13:39:53 GMT -5
I thought 'tool' would've clued some of you in. It would serve as an accompanying virtual script...of sorts, not direct brainwashing, as I've already mentioned. I would've gone on to Hinckley and the accompanying virtual script that was the movie 'Taxi Driver'. Or Berkowitz...and the accompanying virtual script that was the movie 'The Wicker Man'. but I don't think I'll bother now. They're all just 'lone nut' whack jobs...none of the victims were politically sensitive obviously ....'mind control' doesn't exist, Oswald killed JFK etc....nothing to see here, move along people. Consider that an end to the subject.
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Post by thisone on Apr 22, 2008 16:38:37 GMT -5
okay, its a bit of a stretch - but after reading that guys blog about OZ and synchro-mysticism i noticed on the way to work that the 'Nissan' logo (circle with a line through it) could be interpreted as an OZ. then i came in here and saw eye's post about pepper red, yellow, purple and blue .. around the OZ? Speaking of cars....This has been under my nose for about 2 years --
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Post by iameye on Apr 22, 2008 19:19:45 GMT -5
OZ ounce
I never saw the true meaning to this abbreviation.......supposedly from the Italian word onza abbreviated: oz, the old Italian word onza, now spelled oncia) (why would an Imperial system take from specifically this one word from Italian? How convienent.....)
noun Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French unce, from Latin uncia 12th part, ounce, from unus one —
ONE
one Pronunciation: \ˈwən\ Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English on, an, from Old English ān; akin to Old High German ein one, Latin unus (Old Latin oinos), Sanskrit eka Date: before 12th century 1: being a single unit or thing <one day at a time> 2 a: being one in particular <early one morning> b: being preeminently what is indicated <one fine person> 3 a: being the same in kind or quality <both of one species> b (1): constituting a unified entity of two or more components <the combined elements form one substance> (2): being in agreement or union <am one with you on this> 4 a: some 1 <will see you again one day> b: being a certain individual specified by name <one John Doe made a speech> 5: only 2a <the one person she wanted to marry>
"E Pluribus Unum" is Latin for "Out of Many, One."
E Pluribus OZ
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Post by iameye on Apr 22, 2008 20:42:00 GMT -5
The oosik of Native Alaskan cultures is a polished and sometimes carved baculum of various large northern carnivores such as walruses. Oosik is a term used in Alaska to describe the baculum (penile bone) of walruses, seals, sea lions, and polar bears. Sometimes as long as 60 cm (2 ft), it can be polished and used as a handle for knives and other tools. (like masonic gavels ) The word baculum originally meant "stick" or "staff" in Latin. The homologue to the baculum in female mammals is known as the baubellum or os clitoridis or os clitoris. Humans, unlike other primates, lack an os penis / os clitoris. (eggMAN?) However, this bone is much reduced among the great apes: in many species it is a r elatively insignificant 10-20 mm structure. The proper name for the Grand Master's staff is, it seems, a baculus. Baculus or baculum is a latin word for staff. It sometimes also referred to a club (i.e. a stick for hitting people with). Either way it is a symbolizes authority and power.
The Master ought to hold the staff and the rod in his hand, that is to say, the staff (baculum), that he may support the infirmities of the weak, and the rod (cirgam), that he may with the zeal of rectitude strike down the vices of delinquents.
In the Bible's Book of Genesis, Adam's rib is removed to create Eve. Biblical Hebrew is not known to have a word for penis. Some (Gilbert and Zevit 2001) have suggested this story is an explanatory myth to explain the absence of a baculum in the male human, rather than a missing rib (in light of the fact that men and women have the same number of ribs). .....but what feature (notable) does the cup of the grail have? the stem.... "I weep for you," the Walrus said: "I deeply sympathize." With sobs and tears he sorted out Those of the largest size, Holding his pocket-handkerchief Before his streaming eyes. "O Oysters," said the Carpenter, "You've had a pleasant run! Shall we be trotting home again?' But answer came there none-- And this was scarcely odd, because They'd eaten every one.
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Post by iameye on Apr 22, 2008 21:41:11 GMT -5
in the Wizard of Oz, Dorothy had to get the broom of the wicked witch of the West ...for the wizard, de OZ.
Baculum: Witches' rod, staff, wand, or "broomstick" used in divination and certain fertility spells .........
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Post by linus on Oct 16, 2012 0:39:47 GMT -5
bump
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