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Post by Doc on Apr 7, 2004 1:32:36 GMT -5
I thought to myself how to handle make the last post. What I wanted to say, and totally sincerely, in that post was that the idea you brought to the thread, James Paul saying it best, Money Can't Buy Me Love, was the strongest idea in the thread, that pretty much sews it up and answers to the question of why so much hard work went into it. You deserved , literally, the "last word" here, with the one word reply, "exactly", and I wanted to post this:
"There is nothing to add here. Yuu deserve the last word."
If I had done that, you wouldn't have HAD the last word. I was afraid THAT would have been sarcastic, and I really wanted to express that I was touched by the idea that the cover may have involved some sacrificial giving on the part of the makers.
I have a knack sometimes for coming across wrong---I am sorry to have made a sarcastic impression. Definitely not intended, FP.
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Post by FlamingPie on Apr 7, 2004 1:51:59 GMT -5
Thanks Doctor Robert, it was just a misuderstanding. All I said was "exactly", and you said that was a good post. It's just that I've never seen anyone give a "good posting" smiley to one word. But thanks for clearing that up.
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Post by apollocvermouth on Apr 11, 2004 10:01:12 GMT -5
"I saw a film today, oh boy, the English army had just won the war..."
There seems to be a small connection between the above lines from "A Day in the Life," and the mysterious "Billy Shears."
Although purely conjecture on my part, it would seem that the "film" mentioned may have been "The Bridge Over the River Kwai."
Why?
Not to bore you with a synopsis of the film, (you can explore that one on your own) but it concerns members of the English army being held in a Japanese prison camp and used to construct a tactical bridge for their captors.
In the end, the bridge was ultimately built and then destroyed by the English army, thus aiding in the victory over the Japanese.
One major character in the film, Lt. Commander SHEARS, was played by actor WILLIAM Holden. This character plays a pivitol role in the destruction of the bridge. In one scene, he tells a nurse that "all you need is love." Actually, one of the memorable lines of the movie.
Could the name "Billy Shears" of SPLHCB be inspired by the character of this flim mentioned on the same album?
Seems logical as the mention of seeing a "film" was important enough to become lyrics of a song. What profound effect did it have on Lennon, who went on to play in a movie titled, "How I Won the War."
Comments?
Happy Easter!
Apollo
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Post by Doc on Apr 11, 2004 19:21:20 GMT -5
Well, I need to view "River Kwai" again, its been years, but they built the bridge as a deception, tight?
Maybe Kwai explains the why and how?
"Bill" may have been, in part, a "bridge" to lure?
Or scould Lennon's "I saw a film today, oh, boy", line refer to seeing the screening of his own recently completed film, "How I won the War?"
Gripweed? What a name.
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Post by apollocvermouth on May 2, 2004 1:21:51 GMT -5
Seems that Lewis Carroll's inspiration, usually associated with Lennon's work during the Sgt. Pepper/Magical Mystery Tour era, extends beyond the obvious and presents itself in places unexpected.
There is a connection with Carroll and McCartney's song, "Hey Jude."
In the "Through the Looking Glass" books, it seems that the White Queen has a habit that when she says the word "better," she repeats it over and over again, each time getting more high pitched and louder until it ends in a squeal. At which time she completely transform herself into a "new creature" or a new location.
Sound familiar?
"Better, better, better..."
Apollo
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Post by Doc on May 2, 2004 1:47:26 GMT -5
GETTING SO MUCH BETTER ALL THE TIME............
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Post by SimMHoward on May 2, 2004 11:23:05 GMT -5
Carrol was famous for double meanings in his works, and as John often tried to mimic him, I have a feeling that a lot of his stuff has double meanings (He blew his mind out in a car is both the accepted Tara Brown explaination and the PID version) so I have a feeling that he probably rarely lied about the event, he just didn't tell the whole truth, of course, thats assuming it happened
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Post by apollocvermouth on May 7, 2004 22:22:57 GMT -5
Some of the items found on the cover tell a story as well.
Consider the use of the Hyacinth plant used to form the word "Beatles" on the cover of Sgt. Pepper.
What possible connection could be associated with a flower??
Lets take a look at the myth of it's creation.
Hyacinthus, young son of the King of Sparta, beautiful like the very gods of Mount Olympos, was beloved by Apollo, the shooter of arrows.
The two would meet on the banks of the Eurotas River, and delight in various pastimes.
One day while the pair was trying to out do each other in a game of discus throwing, Hyacinthus trying to chase down Apollo's last throw, was struck in the HEAD by the falling discus and killed.
Apollo, heartbroken at the loss of his friend by his own hand, and clutching the lifeless body in his arms, vowed to have him remembered for all time.
With one word from Apollo, a fragrant red flower arose from the spilled blood of his friend on the ground. On its petals you can still read the letters "Ay," the sigh of pain that rose from Apollo's grief stricken heart at the loss.
It seems curious that later in his carreer that McCartney would choose the name "APOLLO C. Vermouth" to produce a song for the Bozo Dog Band. A band that earlier was to provide the only non-Beatle song for the Magical Mystery Tour film.
Apollo
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Post by Doc on May 7, 2004 23:00:09 GMT -5
Fascinating.
But whom applies to whom?
Who is having whom remembered?
An accidentally killing---very sad, very unfortunate.
Tell us more, please, sir, if you may.
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Post by apollocvermouth on May 8, 2004 0:39:14 GMT -5
Interesting question, my good doctor.
I can only speculate as to the dubious inclusion of the Hyacinth plant on the cover.
I suspect it refers to the tragic death of Tara Browne. Both he and Paul were very close, and keeping with the mythology would seem to make sense. And, the choice of Paul to assume the name of "Apollo" later in life only serves to cement the theory.
Yet, the flowers spell out the word "Beatles," and the rumors of Paul's death from head wounds suffered in a car accident puts a very unusual twist to the mix.
Both scenarios would seem to follow suit.
Consider this for a moment...
Tara Browne was the "heir" to the Guiness fortune.
He was killed at a young age in a car accident.
"You were in a car crash, and you lost your hair."
Ever notice that the words "hair" and "heir" can sound somewhat similar?
Just a silly tid-bit I pulled from my arse. Though it makes me wonder.
"You were in a car crash, and you lost your heir."
Makes sense to me, if looked at in that manner.
Apollo
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Post by DarkHorse on May 8, 2004 10:01:16 GMT -5
The question is why would Ringo write lyrics about Tara Browne in addition to John also writing lyrics about this fellow? It doesn't make sense that if Paul was such good friends with Tara Browne and Paul didn't die then why wouldn't Paul write lyrics about him in his songs? Instead you have songs written by John referring to the car crash and you have Don't Pass Me By by Ringo referring to a similar thing. Doesn't hold water that they valued Tara Browne enough to put that much attention towards him.
What the reference to Tara Browne in A Day In The Life is, I think, a way to divert attention just enough so many don't realize you are actually singing about Paul. Since they died in similar ways it's easy for John to mix in Tara's death with Paul's death in his writing so he can always say the song was about Tara. And that's the style that John seemed to use in his writing and in his public statements.
"They'd seen his face before, nobody was really sure if he was from the House of Paul." ;D
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Post by apollocvermouth on May 8, 2004 13:42:30 GMT -5
Great questions, Darkhorse!
Like I said, I simply was playing around with the premise.
But, to answer your query, if Paul and Tara were both killed in seperate accidents, and the "Paul" from Sgt. Pepper was not who he seemed, then regardless of any relationship betwixt the two, the new "Paul" would have no reference to that freindship. It would fall on the other three to point it out.
From all accounts, John did not seem to be that close to Tara, citing that "A Day in the Life" was written partially about "that Guinness CHILD." No love lost there, it appears.
You bring up some valid points.
Apollo
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Post by Doc on May 8, 2004 17:10:19 GMT -5
Unless John was mixing things up again and refering to somebody who DRANK a lot of Guinness beer....................just a thought.
Actually, what's the story on tara's doings etc. between Sept and Nov of 1966 prior to his demise? Could Tara have gone out earlier, and been "covered" for in like manner? Here's the wild card leap for today (and I know that this one most likely will go out in flames) but could there have been a VERY short term Tara double?
Which, sorry, would make him Tara Tara. Or, just Fara.
Also, yes. If James Paul and Tara had been such great friends, it seems curious that there is little apparent tribute to him by Paul, and notable, in fact "trumped" examples by Lennon and Starr each.
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Post by apollocvermouth on May 8, 2004 19:51:33 GMT -5
I have always felt the lines from McCartney's, "Venus and Mars" dealt briefly with a slightly intoxicated Tara leading up to the accident.
"Red lights, green lights, strawberry wine, a good friend of mine, follows the stars, Venus and Mars are alright tonight.'
Tara was known, through his personal wealth, to be able to hang with the hip crowd of the day.
"He blew his mind out in a car, he didn't notice that the lights had changed."
I'm sure there are other references to him, sprinkled about Paul's solo work.
As far as "Fara" is concerned, I see little evidence to support such a theory. Interesting concept, though. And, one that may warrant a closer look.
The whole reference to "Venus and Mars" itself may need a closer look as well.
It is semi-apparent that mythology may play a significant role in unfolding the story line.
I'll take a peak and see what I can find. Anyone care to join me?
Apollo
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Post by Doc on May 8, 2004 21:47:10 GMT -5
Fine, then. Raise the blinds a little.
Venus is associated with the astrological sign of Taurus; Mars is linked to one but I dont recall it. Paul is/was a Gemini, that's, well, the twins. Don't rcall much else.
Was Tara driving in the accident? Were there other passengers? Were there other victims or another car? Did he hit a tree or something? If he hit a tree, then not noticing that the lights had changed doesn't really work, does it? I mean, you can cream a tree whether the light is red, green, or flashing amber. Traffic signals weren't made to defend the trees, poles, or other stationary objects.
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Post by apollocvermouth on May 9, 2004 11:05:35 GMT -5
Interesting choice of words, Doc. There seems to be a book titled "Shutters and Blinds," that deals with aspects of Tara'a death. Forgot the author's name at this time.
Seems that Tara was killed in the early morning hours of 12-18-66. He was traveling to visit David Vaughn, who was doing some painting on the front of Tara's Kings Road shop Dandy Fashions.
He smashed his Lotus Elan into the rear of a parked van while swerving to avoid a Volkswagon that pulled out in his path in Redcliffe Gardens in Earls Court.
From what I can glean, he was with a female friend who escaped the accident with minor injuries. Tara was dead at the scene.
As far as "Venus and Mars" are concerned, there are several differing stories. Venus is the god of peace, Mars the god of war. They were lovers, such as Hyacinthus and Apollo were lovers to a different degree.
Didn't really find anything beyond that after a cursory search.
Happy Mother's Day!
Apollo
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Post by JoJo on Jan 22, 2007 21:51:09 GMT -5
From the "McCartney Encyclopedia" by Bill Harry:
Contrary to popular opinion, all the characters on the cover of the Sgt. Pepper weren't personally chosen by the Beatles to represent their heroes and influences. Robert Fraser and Peter Blake asked each member of the Beatles to write down ten choices on a piece of paper. Ringo didn't bother to make any choices, George picked mainly Indian gurus and a number of choices by John and Paul were left out or vetoed. A great number of the seventy-plus characters were chosen by Fraser and Blake, so the cover wasn't representational of the Beatles' heroes after all.
Paul chose Karlheinz Stockhausen. The composer couldn't be contacted as he was sailing in the Pacific, but his image was used anyway.
Paul also added Fred Astaire to his list. Astaire had been one of his favorites when he was a child and he loved to watch Hollywood musicals as the cinema. One of his favorite songs was Astaire's "Cheek To Cheek". ...
...Other choices by Paul included Bridgitte Bardot and William Burroughs.
Btw, "Shutters and Blinds" is a very limited release book that goes for a pretty penny.
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Post by Mellow Yellow on Jan 22, 2007 22:30:48 GMT -5
Hah! See I knew the Beatles couldn't possibly think of Crowley as a role-model. John maybe....... But not all of them.
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Post by beatlies on Jan 23, 2007 0:31:34 GMT -5
From the "McCartney Encyclopedia" by Bill Harry: Contrary to popular opinion, all the characters on the cover of the Sgt. Pepper weren't personally chosen by the Beatles to represent their heroes and influences. Robert Fraser and Peter Blake asked each member of the Beatles to write down ten choices on a piece of paper. Ringo didn't bother to make any choices, George picked mainly Indian gurus and a number of choices by John and Paul were left out or vetoed. A great number of the seventy-plus characters were chosen by Fraser and Blake, so the cover wasn't representational of the Beatles' heroes after all.
Paul chose Karlheinz Stockhausen. The composer couldn't be contacted as he was sailing in the Pacific, but his image was used anyway.
Paul also added Fred Astaire to his list. Astaire had been one of his favorites when he was a child and he loved to watch Hollywood musicals as the cinema. One of his favorite songs was Astaire's "Cheek To Cheek". ...
...Other choices by Paul included Bridgitte Bardot and William Burroughs.Btw, "Shutters and Blinds" is a very limited release book that goes for a pretty penny. Somehow I just don't believe this undocumented account of how the SP faces came to be. For one thing, it's obvious that some faces were selected and arranged to form the various hidden mirror pictures. Some of this hidden pictures are quite tiny and must have involved sophisticated, spy-related micro-reproduction techniques.
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Post by mysteryboy on Jan 23, 2007 1:33:21 GMT -5
From the "McCartney Encyclopedia" by Bill Harry: Contrary to popular opinion, all the characters on the cover of the Sgt. Pepper weren't personally chosen by the Beatles to represent their heroes and influences. Robert Fraser and Peter Blake asked each member of the Beatles to write down ten choices on a piece of paper. Ringo didn't bother to make any choices, George picked mainly Indian gurus and a number of choices by John and Paul were left out or vetoed. A great number of the seventy-plus characters were chosen by Fraser and Blake, so the cover wasn't representational of the Beatles' heroes after all.
Paul chose Karlheinz Stockhausen. The composer couldn't be contacted as he was sailing in the Pacific, but his image was used anyway.
Paul also added Fred Astaire to his list. Astaire had been one of his favorites when he was a child and he loved to watch Hollywood musicals as the cinema. One of his favorite songs was Astaire's "Cheek To Cheek". ...
...Other choices by Paul included Bridgitte Bardot and William Burroughs.Btw, "Shutters and Blinds" is a very limited release book that goes for a pretty penny. Somehow I just don't believe this undocumented account of how the SP faces came to be. For one thing, it's obvious that some faces were selected and arranged to form the various hidden mirror pictures. Some of this hidden pictures are quite tiny and must have involved sophisticated, spy-related micro-reproduction techniques. I totally agree with you, Beatlies. A creative endeavor of this magnitude had to have the full control by the Beatles, especially Lennon and Faul. They knew what they had, and I can't see them drolling off something as important as the cover to someone else. And I sincerely doubt the person who supposedly designed the drum mirror epitagh even existed. Well, I mean the person existed, probably as an intelligence expert, but again, under full supervision of at least John. And I don't trust much written by or spoken of and by Faul, especially regarding Beatle history.
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Post by beatlies on Jan 23, 2007 2:40:24 GMT -5
"I saw a film today, oh boy, the English army had just won the war..." There seems to be a small connection between the above lines from "A Day in the Life," and the mysterious "Billy Shears." Although purely conjecture on my part, it would seem that the "film" mentioned may have been "The Bridge Over the River Kwai." Why? Not to bore you with a synopsis of the film, (you can explore that one on your own) but it concerns members of the English army being held in a Japanese prison camp and used to construct a tactical bridge for their captors. In the end, the bridge was ultimately built and then destroyed by the English army, thus aiding in the victory over the Japanese. One major character in the film, Lt. Commander SHEARS, was played by actor WILLIAM Holden. This character plays a pivitol role in the destruction of the bridge. In one scene, he tells a nurse that "all you need is love." Actually, one of the memorable lines of the movie. Could the name "Billy Shears" of SPLHCB be inspired by the character of this flim mentioned on the same album? Seems logical as the mention of seeing a "film" was important enough to become lyrics of a song. What profound effect did it have on Lennon, who went on to play in a movie titled, "How I Won the War." Comments? Happy Easter! Apollo William HOLDEN Caulfield ---mentioned in John Lennon's Skywriting by Word of Mouth in regards to The Catcher in the Rye, which then became part of the official Mark Chapman Lennon assassination story in 1980 ....... Willam Holden, a longtime friend of Manon murders-benefiCIAry Ronald Reagan, played the friend and co-worker of central character Howard "Bea(t)le" with Phaye Funaway in the acclaimed 1976 film "Network." Bridge on the River Kwai ..... then we have ultra-elite, billionaire banking fascist Japanese War Criminal family YOKO ONO coming on the scene in 1966 ......
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Post by JoJo on Jan 23, 2007 19:20:57 GMT -5
This was Bill Harry's book, and believe me, I take what he says with a grain of salt. (sorry Harry) I have noticed errors in his book, many of them minor and possibly due to a lack of proofreading, but there are some omissions that are curious.
First of all, even though Paul had that moped accident with Tara Browne, and that's hardly a secret, the detailed chronology leaves that out, (or any reference to Tara) as well as the gathering with "Paul dressed as an Arab".
The book also claims "Paul" spent time in Kenya with Jane Asher, while according to the Mal Evans movies and other chronologies she was nowhere near there. The fact that Mal was there is omitted entirely.
This may be a situation of half truths, the truthful part being that some help was provided to make sure the Pepper cover fell together as nicely as it did.
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Post by JoJo on Feb 12, 2007 19:51:27 GMT -5
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Post by JoJo on Mar 30, 2007 18:04:50 GMT -5
Just something I never got around to before..
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Post by TotalInformation on Mar 30, 2007 19:11:49 GMT -5
Who purportedly did those sketches?
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