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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 6, 2007 20:48:18 GMT -5
Javitronics wrote: "This Publius fellow sounded pretty ominous at the end, saying things like it being "too late" for certain people, etc. Very strange."
And "IT IS FINISHED" as well. Delusions of grandeur?
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Post by jarvitronics on Jul 6, 2007 20:55:11 GMT -5
Javitronics wrote: "This Publius fellow sounded pretty ominous at the end, saying things like it being "too late" for certain people, etc. Very strange."
And "IT IS FINISHED" as well. Delusions of grandeur? Do you see the FISHED IN "in" that statement? Literally! F IN ISHED -j
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 7, 2007 9:57:49 GMT -5
Hook line and sinker! But I'm still fascinated. In any case, it appears that I don't have the story quite right. The "enigma" and "publius" pictures apparently never were on the Division Bell album cover. They only showed up on the CD version of "A Momentary Lapse of Reason". One thing that I think I see in the "Enigma" picture is a person on the side of the cliff, standing on a ledge. I drew a shaky arrow pointing to the top of his head, and a line next to the ledge his feet are on: The line by the black ball by the woman is to point out that she is holding a line of some sort down to him.
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Post by JoJo on Jul 7, 2007 11:01:36 GMT -5
Someone compiled the whole thing, at least all of Publius' posts: LINKThis person's theory is that the entire thing is a word puzzle, with the solutions contained in the messages themselves: www.flybyday.com/enigma/
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 8, 2007 12:55:03 GMT -5
So I have dutifully gone out and bought a CD of "The Division Bell" - (Yes, there's a sucker born every minute, as PT Barnum once noted.)- and I'll comment once I've given it a listen a few times, but I'm already suspicious. The two faces on the cover have been shaded so that the one on the left is nearly black, and the one on the right, nearly white. The picture is shown during the day, so there are no UFO-ey lights in the background, and what's this? "A Pink Floyd tribute by the PINK pepperpot FLOYD band"?
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Post by jarvitronics on Jul 8, 2007 13:03:16 GMT -5
"A Pink Floyd tribute by the PINK pepperpot FLOYD band"? WHAT? Are you kidding? What is this tribute? I am on pins and needles waiting to hear about this. -j
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 8, 2007 13:05:25 GMT -5
Well don't get all excited. I was jest kidding. ;D
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Post by jarvitronics on Jul 8, 2007 13:24:11 GMT -5
Well don't get all excited. I was jest kidding. ;D I am the sucker that got born during my minute... -j
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 8, 2007 17:43:06 GMT -5
LOL. Well now, if this isn't a smoking gun, I don't know what is! Song # 8 on "The Division Bell" "Coming Back To Life" with accompanying photo and lyrics: The scene calls to mind some you've seen before: the 'alternate' white album cover: (ignore the yellow face) and this scene from Magical Mystery Tour: I'd say it's a continuation. It picks up where those scenes left off.
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 8, 2007 17:49:57 GMT -5
"Coming Back To Life"
Where were you when I was burned and brokenWhile the days slipped by from my window watching? Where were you when I was hurt and helpless?Because the things you say and the things you do surround me.
While you were hanging yourself on someone else's words, Dying to believe in what you heard, I was staring straight into the shining sun; Lost in thought and lost in time, While the seeds of life, and the seeds of change, were planted.
Outside the rain fell dark and slow While I pondered on this dangerous, but irresistible, pastime. I took a heavenly ride through our silence. I knew the moment had arrived For killing the past, and coming back to life.
I took a heavenly ride through our silence. I knew the waiting had begun, And headed straight..into the shining sun
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 8, 2007 18:30:44 GMT -5
By the way, doesn't the part of the cliff encircled in yellow look kind of like a walrus? I painted a yellow arrow to point out two "tusks". www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFq28d35hmQ The red arrow is the direction from which the cliff is viewed on the alternate White Album.
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Post by plastic paul on Jul 8, 2007 20:06:56 GMT -5
The letters you put in yellow are: M A S N S I W D E I E I G I C Was there any discussion of the meaning that you were able to discover? I suppose it could be an anagram, but that has so many possibilities. I was reminded of MMT. WE IS MAGIC INSIDE
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 8, 2007 20:20:57 GMT -5
Good one, Plastic Paul!
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 9, 2007 3:49:47 GMT -5
For me, the words to "Coming Back To Life" make perfect sense when considered as words of Paul McCartney to John Lennon, and even more to his departed love (presumably Sylvie):
"Coming Back To Life"
Where were you when I was burned and broken While the days slipped by from my window, watching? Where were you when I was hurt and helpless? Because the things you say and the things you do surround me.
While you were hanging yourself on someone else's words, Dying[/b] to believe in what you heard, I was staring straight into the shining sun; Lost in thought and lost in time, While the seeds of life, and the seeds of change, were planted.
Outside the rain fell dark and slow While I pondered on this dangerous, but irresistible, pastime. I took a heavenly ride through our silence. I knew the moment had arrived For killing[/b] the past,[/color] and coming back to life.
I took a heavenly ride through our silence. I knew the waiting had begun, And headed straight..into the shining sun
----------------------------------
John went through a period of trying to kill his ego, based on the something he'd read. I've emphasized in italics words relating to killing and death in the second verse.
These words: "Where were you when I was burned and broken While the days slipped by from my window, watching? Where were you when I was hurt and helpless?"
relate to Paul's having been shot out of the sky, imo, as described in the songs "Band on the Run", and "Learning To Fly" from the Pink Floyd "A Momentary Lapse of Reason" album, which also has a seacoast on the cover. And hospital beds. Apparently Paul was hospitalized afterward.
Because the things you say and the things you do surround me. (He sees John in the papers; on TV, etc.)[/b](thoughts of Sylvie)
While you were hanging yourself on someone else's words, Dying[/b] to believe in what you heard, [/color] (John was; Sylvie died hanging on to Johnny H's words?)[/b][/color]
I (Paul) was staring straight into the shining sun;
Lost in thought and lost in time, While the seeds of life, and the seeds of change, were planted. (Paul planned his life outside of the Beatles.)
The line: "I was staring straight into the shining sun" is interesting. On one level it relates to something Paul apparently may have been doing, as described in the Rolling Stones song "Paint It Black". In that song the funeral of a loved one causes its singer to not want to "see colors" any more due to the guilt he feels for the role he feels he played in causing his loved one's death:
"I see a red door and I want it painted black No colors anymore I want them to turn black "
The singer apparently wants to go blind, and seemingly attempts to bring blindness upon himself by staring into the sun:
"If I look hard enough into the settin' sun My love will laugh with me before the mornin' comes"
but as you can see, the object wasn't just to be blinded to the colors of the world outside, but to connect with his deceased love in some psychic manner internally.
But on another level, 'staring straight into the shining sun' could mean "immersing himself in 'the glow' of God's presense". "The sun" representing God and a state of "enlightenment", such as the Buddha is said to have experienced while sitting under a tree. Hence being able to live with himself in spite of what he felt he had done, being able to be forgive himself (presumably), and hopefully being able to commune with his departed loved one. In that context, these lines make sense:
"I took a heavenly ride through our silence. I knew the moment had arrived For killing[/b] the past, and coming back to life."[/color]
The silence in the wake of her departure. It was time to kill the past (his Beatle-hood) as well as his 'old self' as a man oriented toward physical awareness, and to be 'coming to life' in terms of being aware of what was happening in the world of spirit, where his lover now lived.
But what of this 'heavenly ride'? Could there be more to it? Haven't we heard of "the space cowboy", Gemini 12, and all that? Was there a physical aspect to it, as well as the usual spiritual crap? This song certainly hints at it. But essentially what's implied is that his "coming to life" is his re-emergence into the world, following a long period of silent solitude (the theme, in fact, of The Division Bell). Moving along:
"I took a heavenly ride through our silence. I knew the waiting had begun, (waiting to be re-united with {presumably} Sylvie). And headed straight..into the shining sun (began his spiritual sojourn)
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gar
Hard Day's Night
Posts: 26
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Post by gar on Jul 10, 2007 10:07:50 GMT -5
Pink Floyd - Echoes Lyrics (not from The Division Bell, but still interesting considering the quite obvious Beatles references) Overhead the albatross hangs motionless upon the air And deep beneath the rolling waves in labyrinths of coral caves The echo of a distant tide Comes willowing across the sand And everything is green and submarine And no one showed us to the land And no one knows the wheres or whys But something stirs and Something tries And starts to climb towards the light Strangers passing in the street By chance two separate glances meet And I am you and what I see is me And do I take you by the hand And lead you through the land And help me understand the best I can And no one calls us to the land And no one crosses there alive And no one speaks And no one tries And no one flies around the sun And now this is the day you fall Upon my waking eyes Inviting and inciting me to rise And through the window in the wall Comes streamin in on sunlight wings A million bright ambassadors of morning And no one sings me lullabies And no one makes me close my eyes So I throw the windows wide And call to you across the sky
Also, they recorded P/Faul and Linda McCartney's voices to include on the Dark Side Of The Moon album, but never used them... that always struck me as quite odd...
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 10, 2007 13:02:34 GMT -5
They were recorded as some of the voices of the people in "the asylum" (Earth), saying things like "I certainly was in the right", etc. It's my understanding that their voices weren't used simply because there were enough other "mad men" whose statements, which were in response to a number of questions like "Have you ever been 'falling-down' drunk?" were more poignient. One of the members of Wings' voice was used. I don't recall just who's. Thank you for posting the lyrics to Echoes. There seem to be plenty of Paul and Syd allusions in the Pink Floyd song book; probably more than meet the eye. After having listened to The Division Bell three or four times, it becomes apparent to me that this song by Lennon and McCartney, but done by Peter and Gordon, and a big hit for them as well, was a public declaration of what Paul wanted to do. Wanted to do and did, it would seem. A WORLD WITHOUT LOVE (J. Lennon - P. McCartney)
hear it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EN8LzVLmN4
Please lock me away And don't allow the day Here inside where I hide With my loneliness
I don't care what they say I won't stay In a world without love
Birds sing out of tune And rain clouds hide the moon I'm OK, here I'll stay With my loneliness
I don't care what they say I won't stay In a world without love
So I wait and in a while I will see my true love's smile She may come, I know not when. When she does, I lose; So baby until then:
Lock me away And don't allow the day Here inside where I hide With my loneliness
I don't care what they say I won't stay In a world without love
So I wait and in a while I will see my true love's smile She may come, I know not when When she does I lose So baby until then
Lock me away And don't allow the day Here inside where I hide With my loneliness
I don't care what they say I won't stay In a world without love
I don't care what they say I won't stay In a world without love---------- As grim as it may sound, the lyrics suggest that he may have intended to die. He "wouldn't stay" in a world without (his) love(r). And the reason he would "lose", is because he felt he'd have to die to be met by her, I presume. What's interesting is that the release date for this song was February 28th, 1964! And an interesting sidenote: As you can see, the "accompaniment" was directed by "Geoff Love": beatleshelp.topcities.com/collabo/peter2.htmlWould this be the infamous " Geoffrey A[/color]drian S[/color]heppard" aka "Bill" who's "a gas gas gas" and "Jumpin' Jack Flash"? (And of course, 'the devil'. ) A search for that name brings up this: www.vinylvulture.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=166614#post166614He was the "Bill Sheppard" of his day in England, eh? (See this thread: invanddis.proboards29.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1149620106&page=1 )
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Post by mysteryboy on Jul 10, 2007 13:19:00 GMT -5
Sorry for the intrusion. I think this thread is beginning to get a bit out there. I do find the booklet to the Division Bell and the scene on the Beach compelling (excellent observation, 4k Holes!).
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 10, 2007 13:53:56 GMT -5
Thank you for the observation, and compliment, tubularbell. I know you are familiar with the album, so I respect what you are saying, and it does remind me to get back to the point I was getting to: that Paul may have followed through with his plan to lock himself away, rising in the evening, (staring into the setting sun), and being a night owl, but living in virtual solitude. The song on The Division Bell called "Wearing the Inside Out" describes someone who is locked away in his living quarters, and who, having taken a vow of silence, is so unaccustomed to speaking that he has lost the ability to do so. If this is the person who has decided to "come back to life" (and it seems it is), then re-learning to speak is a big deal for them. They want to "kill the past" and move on. This may have very little to do with "publius" and "enigma", but methinks it has a lot to do with the "dead" Paul McCartney. Right now that part of the puzzle holds more fascination for me than the identity of publius and his enigma, but I'm sure it's all related. Feel free to put the thread "back on track" as you see fit. ;D
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gar
Hard Day's Night
Posts: 26
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Post by gar on Jul 11, 2007 2:42:30 GMT -5
This morning I went to check my own copy of The Division bell and it has a very different picture with Coming back To Life. The idea is the same (reanimation on a beach) but the picture is shot from a differrent angle and is much closer to the 2 people. Which makes it look less like the alternative White Album cover. So I took the Mind Over Matter book by designer Storm Thorgerson and read about the Division Bell artwork and there is not a word about this perticular photograph...
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Post by Valis on Jul 11, 2007 4:02:47 GMT -5
Weird,
I also just checked my cover and it's the same as the one Gar describes. Maybe it's a difference between the Euro version Gar and me have and 4000's US copy. Maybe a joke to being released on the other side of the ocean, since the scene in the pic is also mirrored awith the 2 persons and huge rocks on the left and the sky with the lyrics in them on the right.
All Love Jan
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gar
Hard Day's Night
Posts: 26
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Post by gar on Jul 11, 2007 4:18:05 GMT -5
by the way, has anybody noticed the 12 Monkeys on the Keep Talking pages of the booklet?
and on the back of the booklet, three 'flags' attached to people, all clearly visible but one person is missing from the picture. What does it mean?
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Post by mysteryboy on Jul 11, 2007 6:47:40 GMT -5
Thank you for the observation, and compliment, tubularbell. I know you are familiar with the album, so I respect what you are saying, and it does remind me to get back to the point I was getting to: that Paul may have followed through with his plan to lock himself away, rising in the evening, (staring into the setting sun), and being a night owl, but living in virtual solitude. The song on The Division Bell called "Wearing the Inside Out" describes someone who is locked away in his living quarters, and who, having taken a vow of silence, is so unaccustomed to speaking that he has lost the ability to do so. If this is the person who has decided to "come back to life" (and it seems it is), then re-learning to speak is a big deal for them. They want to "kill the past" and move on. This may have very little to do with "publius" and "enigma", but methinks it has a lot to do with the "dead" Paul McCartney. Right now that part of the puzzle holds more fascination for me than the identity of publius and his enigma, but I'm sure it's all related. Feel free to put the thread "back on track" as you see fit. ;D You are welcome. And THANK YOU for your rare response to one of my posts. Keep pluggin' away. It's great stuff. Just keep in mind that here are Black Holes in the Official Pink Floyd story. I know this to be a fact. But I assume from your track here that you (and others) suspected as much! Good work.
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 11, 2007 7:07:51 GMT -5
Like black holes in the sky? Actually I don't know nearly as much about the Floyd as I'd like to. The Division Bell is clearly a David Gilmour album. In fact, it's not even listed as a Pink Floyd album on one of the Pink Floyd lyrics pages I visited.
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Post by mommybird on Jul 13, 2007 13:51:30 GMT -5
I'm sure that the Floyd know what really happened back in Sept./Oct. 1966. I wish that one of them would come forward & set the record straight.
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gar
Hard Day's Night
Posts: 26
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Post by gar on Jul 13, 2007 16:38:28 GMT -5
I'm sure that the Floyd know what really happened back in Sept./Oct. 1966. I wish that one of them would come forward & set the record straight. well, David Gilmour quite often plays with Faul (check the Cavern Club dvd for instance) so my guess is that he won't come forward with anything...
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