Paul's playing

[ramone]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRv34Cat3Vw&feature=related


It can be hard enough playing rhythm and singing (and hitting harmonies).
Playing bass at the same time can be a real challenge.
Different brain thing or something.

Give a listen to Paul's playing here. Pretty darn good to say the least.
Might need headphones to really hear it.

Why the replacement didn't play bass live.
(if he played at all early on)

[B]

[ramone]

Thanks B.

I saw RAIN recently and they really put on a good show.
No pre recorded anything. 4 'Beatles' and a keyboardist.
Amazing Strawberry Fields and ADITL.

'Paul' played his Hofner left handed. But, when they did some
acoustic Rubber Soul type stuff he switches to righty on the 6 string.
Don't see a switch hitter much.

He sounded like Paul - played great and had the mannerisms.
But up close I don't think he was a twin by any means.

Which kind of shows how hard it is to get the looks AND talent.
Paul's Faul could pull off the looks (with help), but it's evident
he was in no way as talented when it comes to playing out live -
Not only live but playing a bass (as JPM could) and sing.

So we can see the necessity of the lads not touring. It just couldn't be pulled off. Would have been blatantly obvious what was going on.

Bill doesn't play live bass until the rooftop.
But we do see him in studio doing some decent stuff.

It seems he was a good piano player already, so while we
won't highlight his bass playing we can show piano stuff (which was done).
Then let him catch up somewhat on bass.
(which happens in time)

[B]

Bob Seger talks about how great Paul's bass playing was at 7:15 - 7:40. (Interesting video overall.)

Michigan 60's rock interviews

[the♂winged]

Jan 28, 2010 0:28:52 GMT -5 ramone said:

Bill doesn't play live bass until the rooftop.
But we do see him in studio doing some decent stuff.

It seems he was a good piano player already, so while we
won't highlight his bass playing we can show piano stuff (which was done).
Then let him catch up somewhat on bass.
(which happens in time)

Btw, how can it be proved that faul couldn't really play bass before the rooftop concert?

I totally agree with you, ramone, I'm pretty sure he didn't know bass in the beginning, but I wonder if there is some footage or something that can prove it.

[ramone]

Jan 28, 2010 0:49:24 GMT -5 B said:

Bob Seger talks about how great Paul's bass playing was at 7:15 - 7:40. (Interesting video overall.)

Michigan 60's rock interviews

Thanks for the vid - never saw that one before.
Yeah, what Seger's saying there is exactly what I mean.
And he brings up the live Nowhere Man example.
- 'like there's two different people ( singer/ bass player)'.

A person just enjoying the music will just say - 'wow I like that song
they did (live).'
But someone who say, plays music, appreciates the talent -
like Seger commenting about Paul.

It's like someone watching a juggler and having a good time watching it
- and someone else that's tried to do it. They know how much work and talent it takes to throw around tennis balls (never mind knives or flaming sticks).

But I guess that's my point. To find someone to fill JPM's shoes
is a tall order.
The chances of finding a look-alike and at the same time someone who could imitate his talent is probably exponential to say the least.

Only solution - don't show him live trying to do what Paul did.
But, behind closed doors in the studio, who knows who's doing what.
Plus it buys time to learn the craft.
Then at a certain point, certain things can be shown (like some bass playing).

[ramone]

Jan 28, 2010 9:21:24 GMT -5 the♂winged said:

Jan 28, 2010 0:28:52 GMT -5 ramone said:

Bill doesn't play live bass until the rooftop.
But we do see him in studio doing some decent stuff.

It seems he was a good piano player already, so while we
won't highlight his bass playing we can show piano stuff (which was done).
Then let him catch up somewhat on bass.
(which happens in time)

Btw, how can it be proved that faul couldn't really play bass before the rooftop concert?

I totally agree with you, ramone, I'm pretty sure he didn't know bass in the beginning, but I wonder if there is some footage or something that can prove it.

Hi, and first of all - welcome aboard!

That's a tall order.
Footage of him playing bass would prove just that - that he can.

But, prove that I didn't have coffee this morning.
If you wanted to prove I did and got footage of me drinking - that
could do it.
But proving I didn't - you'd have to have footage of every single minute of my morning.

And we just don't have that of them.
We eventually (and that's the key word) have vid of Faul playing.
And we have him in vids lip synching and playing. But that's not too hard.
You can find lots of vids of bands doing that to their songs and being spot on to the point that you might do an audio double take in your head.


Love to get JP's take on all this.

[the♂winged]

Thank you for the welcome, Ramone!

You are right... Some time ago I tried to compare Faul's bass playing in the Beatles' music clips with bass covers of the Beatles songs from YouTube. I looked at the fingers, tried to synchronize these videos and then left it, 'cause I realized that Faul knew the bass lines. But the promo for "Hello Goodbye" seemed suspicious to me. In particular, it looked to me that Faul didn't knew the line for this song perfectly.

[ramone]

Jan 28, 2010 0:28:52 GMT -5 ramone said:

Thanks B.

I saw RAIN recently and they really put on a good show.
No pre recorded anything. 4 'Beatles' and a keyboardist.
Amazing Strawberry Fields and ADITL.

'Paul' played his Hofner left handed. But, when they did some
acoustic Rubber Soul type stuff he switches to righty on the 6 string.
Don't see a switch hitter much.

He sounded like Paul - played great and had the mannerisms.
But up close I don't think he was a twin by any means.

Which kind of shows how hard it is to get the looks AND talent.
Paul's Faul could pull off the looks (with help), but it's evident
he was in no way as talented when it comes to playing out live -
Not only live but playing a bass (as JPM could) and sing.

So we can see the necessity of the lads not touring. It just couldn't be pulled off. Would have been blatantly obvious what was going on.

Bill doesn't play live bass until the rooftop.
But we do see him in studio doing some decent stuff.

It seems he was a good piano player already, so while we
won't highlight his bass playing we can show piano stuff (which was done).
Then let him catch up somewhat on bass.
(which happens in time)

Found this thread last night from TKIN
- from a few years back - before my time
thanks 'weighe'

"There's plenty of footage of JPM playing live, where you can quite clearly hear those famous melodic-yet-nonmelodic basslines. Whether he's playing live or performing in one of the many lip-synch promo videos, it's the same: he's actually playing, with no effort. A true musician. So enter Faul: the Fab Four "decide" not to tour any more. OK, but they can still create lip-synch videos. So what do we have?

pre67:

From Love Me Do to Rain, we see the band perfoming in all.

1966 or 1967:

Eleanor Rigby and Yellow Submarine are JPM songs but the videos are cartoons. Interesting. And I wonder when they first actually appeared?

1967:

Strawberry Fields Forever - It's just footage of them running around this big tree. No playing.

Penny Lane - Plenty of horses, but no playing. At the banquet, Faul accepts the Hofner and begins to hold it right-handed before he catches himself and switches. Whoops! Funny guy, he is.

I Am The Walrus/Hello Goodbye - Nice distraction with that new white Bass. Only footage of Faul "playing" is during the more simplistic "thump thump thump" parts of the bass.

All You Need Is Love - Live, but not really a performance, I mean, they're just sitting there, lost in an over-busy set, but anyway... thump thump thump.

1968:

Revoulution - Back to the new Hofner. Poser to the max, that Faul is. Now he's beginning to swing the trophy Hofner all around. George takes a few steps back, else he might end up looking like he got in a moped accident...

Hey Jude - Live. Piano.

Hey Bulldog/Lady Madonna - No footage of playing. Funny, it's a more driving, complex bassline too. It's a disappointment we don't see Faul playing it, even if overdubbed. He kicks major butt on the tambourine, though.

Helter Skelter/Blackbird - Looks like a "practice" session in every sense of the word. Faul's corralled off in his own little corner and being coached. C'mon Bill, you can do it! On another note, Helter skelter is Bill singing, Blackbird (only this particular version) is JPM singing. Faul looks perfectly appropriate in Helter Skelter, but those same spastic movements clash harshly with Blackbird. Maybe Helter Skelter is live sound (and instead of thump thump thump it's struma struma struma), but Blackbird is definitely overdubbed.

1969/1970:

Ballad Of John And Yoko/Something - No playing, just random footage. Disappointing, because the bass is more complex. I'm just dying to see Faul play something besides "thump thump thump". Oh well, I'll just have to keep imagining it.

Let It Be/Long And Winding - Live. Piano.

Get Back/Roof - Ok, Faul's really performing, playing bass, live. Finally. Thumpa Thumpa Thumpa. Better, but still simplistic. Nowhere close to JPM. A couple year's practice and that's it?

Wings:

Yeah, let's take like 10 busses worth of people and sets on tour. With so much big noise coming from the mile-away stage, it really doesn't matter whether Bill plays anything or not.

Amazing how easy it is to fool people."

60if.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=faul&action=display&thread=1410

[ramone]

also part of another post (weighe) -
"But again, this isn't strictly about how well Faul plays air-bass on screen, it's about the fact that we don't see him playing the complex stuff, just the simple thumps, even though there there are plenty of good basslines in Beatles recordings. There is a ton of footage of JPM playing."

(and in that thread there's another ramone - 'faul ramone'
- little did I know!)

[thewalruswaspaul]

Hey guys I'm a bassist, and what Paul's doing here is as difficult as you might expect.

He's also playing with a pick, and the Hofner is a really light bass, about the weight of a electric guitar, so on a bass like a Hofner, playing like this is expected.

But hes still a great bassist.

[ramone]

I know, the body is lighter than the neck.
Give a beautiful guitar to someone not that great - and we know the result;
give someone gifted a mediocre instrument and they can still do amazing things.
Faul or bill can't handle anything live on bass for quite some time.
Then again, who could (play like JPM, first of all AND have the look!)?

Yeah, it's no coincidence 'Paul' just starts playing piano almost exclusively at that
'coincidental' time of changes post '66.
But, some bass synching in a vid or two seems to fool enough people. (at least until he can start to learn enough
for more of a bold display)

[thewalruswaspaul]

Jul 9, 2011 14:50:24 GMT -5 ramone said:

I know, the body is lighter than the neck.
Give a beautiful guitar to someone not that great - and we know the result;
give someone gifted a mediocre instrument and they can still do amazing things.
Faul or bill can't handle anything live on bass for quite some time.
Then again, who could (play like JPM, first of all AND have the look!)?

Yeah, it's no coincidence 'Paul' just starts playing piano almost exclusively at that
'coincidental' time of changes post '66.
But, some bass synching in a vid or two seems to fool enough people. (at least until he can start to learn enough
for more of a bold display)

Yea you can totally tell this is a fake. I laugh my butt off every time I see it!



It looks like he is just picked a lefty bass and just started playing bass right handed. and then theres the stupid bending of the knees wich is just down right ridiculous.

[iameye]

Jul 9, 2011 14:56:38 GMT -5 thewalruswaspaul said:

and then theres the stupid bending of the knees wich is just down right ridiculous.

I LIKE the bending of the knee. There's a special art to it.

lol

[thewalruswaspaul]

Jul 9, 2011 16:26:04 GMT -5 iameye said:

Jul 9, 2011 14:56:38 GMT -5 thewalruswaspaul said:

and then theres the stupid bending of the knees wich is just down right ridiculous.

I LIKE the bending of the knee. There's a special art to it.

lol

Oh yea, problay the gift of Hourus to the Chalice of blah blah blah...

[iameye]

Jul 9, 2011 19:50:32 GMT -5 thewalruswaspaul said:

Jul 9, 2011 16:26:04 GMT -5 iameye said:

I LIKE the bending of the knee. There's a special art to it.

lol

Oh yea, problay the gift of Hourus to the Chalice of blah blah blah...

Do you have a spelling problem, too?




IRRELEVANT PID/PWR photo ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


rev·e·la·tion   [rev-uh-ley-shuhn]
noun
1.
the act of revealing or disclosing; disclosure.
2.
something revealed or disclosed, especially a striking disclosure, as of something not before realized.
3.
Theology .
a.
God's disclosure of Himself and His will to His creatures.
b.
an instance of such communication or disclosure.
c.
something thus communicated or disclosed.
d.
something that contains such disclosure, as the Bible.




Why would a megamillionaire dead rockstar post a "satanic" image on his official website, and at this stage of his career, just days before his next BIG SHOW?

I mean, that ought to generate a little press, no?


and so, it did.

[FP]

There's barely footage of ANY of the Beatles playing live between 67-69. You guys are isolating Paul for the sake of isolating Paul. In fact, I can say George was replaced because there's no footage of him playing any guitar solos before the rooftop concert, and how in the All You Need Is Love broadcast, they don't show him playing his guitar solo. Complexity isn't as important as simply being musical when it comes to being a bassist, but Paul is ALWAYS musical in his bass lines, and the bass playing on Sgt. Pepper is some of his best. How do we know it's him? How do we know any of the Beatles played on Sgt. Pepper with that logic?

And don't forget that he plays the riff to the chorus of Dig A Pony while singing harmony with John: "All I want is you".

Also, you can't knock off the footage of Helter Skelter and Blackbird so easily. That footage doesn't have to exist anyway. Who cares if George Martin is sitting there? That's not proof of "coaching". Everything his fingers are doing match up with the sound, it's not overdubbed. The ease that he plays the Helter Skelter riff and switches back to an E7 chord, or the finger picking in Blackbird, all while singing (and barely looking) isn't something you can just acquire over night, even two years. Whoever you think he is, he's been a pianist, guitarist, and bassist for much longer.

[eyesbleed]

Jul 10, 2011 7:38:04 GMT -5 FP said:

There's barely footage of ANY of the Beatles playing live between 67-69. You guys are isolating Paul for the sake of isolating Paul. In fact, I can say George was replaced because there's no footage of him playing any guitar solos before the rooftop concert, and how in the All You Need Is Love broadcast, they don't show him playing his guitar solo. Complexity isn't as important as simply being musical when it comes to being a bassist, but Paul is ALWAYS musical in his bass lines, and the bass playing on Sgt. Pepper is some of his best. How do we know it's him? How do we know any of the Beatles played on Sgt. Pepper with that logic?

And don't forget that he plays the riff to the chorus of Dig A Pony while singing harmony with John: "All I want is you".

Also, you can't knock off the footage of Helter Skelter and Blackbird so easily. That footage doesn't have to exist anyway. Who cares if George Martin is sitting there? That's not proof of "coaching". Everything his fingers are doing match up with the sound, it's not overdubbed. The ease that he plays the Helter Skelter riff and switches back to an E7 chord, or the finger picking in Blackbird, all while singing (and barely looking) isn't something you can just acquire over night, even two years. Whoever you think he is, he's been a pianist, guitarist, and bassist for much longer.

Hey FP, hows it going?
Now, you know good & well that Paul is being isolated because he's the one who all-of-a-sudden shows up with a completely different head & body. The other Beatles are consistent through the years, just facial hair & funny clothes are added. George is clearly George throughout, that's why this discussion is not isolating him. The part of Paul is clearly played by at least 2 different people. So of course somebody would want to compare the musical abilities of the 2 men.

As far as JPM's talent goes, one thing that has always caught my eye is the Ed Sullivan shows. I can't help but notice that JPM rarely ever has to look down at his bass. It's like the bass is an extension of his body. He's playing these complex bass lines & singing & never looks down at what his fingers are doing. Not many bass players/singers are that good.

[ramone]

FP, think about it a little deeper.
Let's say, in this scenario, Faul can't pull off
the bass style of JPM with his proficiency,.
Suppose the other 3 were constantly seen playing live together
(as in studio) but SANS 'Paul'.
You don't think that would raise any suspicions do you?
Subtract EVERYONE from any scene for a while and that becomes a solution.
(It seems they were hoping people wouldn't think TOO deeply about it)

So, just wondering, your purpose for coming here to a PWR forum
is for the express purpose of............?
(I think if one was to look at your posts, that would kinda fill in the blanks)
(if someone went to a coffee enthusiast forum and posted anti coffee comments -
how would that person be defined?)

With all due respect, are you a contrarian in your day to day personal life?
You might say no but you might be and not even know it.

Why not go to pro boards and start a forum entitled
PWN(ot)R (after all, that is basically the theme of your posts)
Then you and other members can discuss how pre '66 and post '66 paul
look exactly alike (except facial hair), sing exactly alike, talk exactly alike, play exactly alike, behave exactly alike, etc.
It'll be fun!

I'm EXTREMELY confident you won't do it though, because then most, if not all, posters would agree with you, and you couldn't be the contrarian.

[FP]

Looks like you've never heard of Maccafunhouse!

maccafunhouse.proboards.com/index.cgi?

It's a PIA (or PWNR) forum where yes, we do indeed talk about how Paul wasn't replaced. We're up to 1,022 threads on the subject. ;D

So you're saying that they couldn't show the other three in the studio because it would raise suspicions about the whereabouts of Paul. That's a fair defense for those who already believe PWR, but what I'm saying is that the lack of footage of Paul/Faul can't count as evidence towards Paul being replaced, because that would be:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

And once again I bring up the Helter Skelter/Blackbird vid to Eyesbleed, who I'm assuming is a musician, to see how Paul just effortlessly fingerpicks counterpoint while singing, or plays the Helter Skelter riff then quickly switches to the E7th chord while barely looking. I doubt John could do that.

And about playing live, OF COURSE if you're performing the same songs day after day, venue after venue, you're going to internalize them so you could do it without looking. Between '67 to Wings, him looking at his instrument doesn't count as any sort of evidence since he didn't get a chance to play these songs at the rate he did before they stopped touring.

[thewalruswaspaul]

Maccafunhouse???

All they do is say how ridiculous PID is and how they can debunk everything. They also say how PIA is the supreme theory and that they are unstoppable.

I wish people would quit the two-theory business. Mainly it's PIA'ers doing it.

1. Paul is alive- thats all their is to it. He's been the same dude since 62

2. Paul is Dead

There's plenty of other theorys out their.

And the most sensible-PWR.

[FP]

Jul 10, 2011 15:50:49 GMT -5 thewalruswaspaul said:

And the most sensible-PWR.

I agree, it would be the most sensible if you could all agree on when he was replaced and when he came back (if you believe he did), but it seems most people here can't agree on huge things like that, which weakens the PWR case. Some people think he came back for a while in '68. Some people think he had replacements before he grew a mustache. Some people think it's JPM on this or that post-66' song but others hear "Faul".

And "Paul Is Alive" isn't a theory any more than "Elvis is Dead" or "Bigfoot isn't real". It's a fact until proven otherwise.

[ramone]

"And "Paul Is Alive" isn't a theory any more than "Elvis is Dead" or "Bigfoot isn't real". It's a fact until proven otherwise.'

That might be one of the oddest and squirrel-ly statements I've seen from your posts.
Can you guess why?
I have my doubts.

[eyesbleed]

Of course we should just ignore the fact that there are 2 very different people in the "Paul" role. That doesn't mean ANYTHING!
Everybody move along... nothing to see here.....


Watch any band... anybody playing live & a very large majority of the guitar & bass players glance down at the instrument a few times each minute. But you don't see JPM doing that on the Ed Sullivan show.
That's all..... I'm not comparing that to Helter Skelter, or other musicians or anything else..... just pointing that out since the subject matter of the thread IS Pauls bass playing.

[FP]

Jul 10, 2011 17:51:59 GMT -5 ramone said:

"And "Paul Is Alive" isn't a theory any more than "Elvis is Dead" or "Bigfoot isn't real". It's a fact until proven otherwise.'

That might be one of the oddest and squirrel-ly statements I've seen from your posts.
Can you guess why?

Because it raises the question "why the heck is he wasting his time here??"

I just had to address "They also say how PIA is the supreme theory," which doesn't make sense.

But I don't want to derail the thread, this isn't about me. It's about Paul's playing, and I think I made a pretty good point about Paul having internalized his parts because of the amount of practice you get from touring.