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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Oct 26, 2009 10:01:42 GMT -5
Um... I can part my hair however I want. Come on, we're talking about hair, the most easily changeable feature ever. You think the people who "transformed" Faul gave him the correct freckles, flaws and wrinkles, but missed the hair? FP, Nobody in this thread did anything other than point out that the hair parting changed, as a rule, at approximately the same time as the "death" or supposed switch occurred (late 66 to early 67). Whether its easy or not to change the part of one's hair isn't the point (although my hair naturally parts on the left and will only part on the right with LOTS of product and effort). The point is that the particular individual in question (McCartney) seems to have altered a life-long pattern of parting his hair on the left in favor of parting it on the right, and he did so in the time frame that is relevant to the entire purpose of this board. In addition, the song "Won't Get Fooled Again", written by a contemporary of Paul, includes the line "And the parting on the left is now parting on the right", which is an odd line in the context of a supposedly political song, and it makes more sense when viewed through the lens of PWR. In the context of the song, the word "party" would be expected, NOT "parting", and yet, Townshend used parting. And this from the man who also wrote "Substitute", and all of "Quadrophenia". I understand that you don't (seem to) subscribe to the possibility of PWR, but the timing of the hair change, combined with the Who lyrics (and LOTS of other "evidence") is interesting to say the least, if not overwhelming. Can you at least grant us that and stop being so grumpy?
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Post by FP on Oct 26, 2009 12:41:29 GMT -5
Can you at least grant us that and stop being so grumpy? I'll grant you that the hair is the only consistent change (in my eyes) after September '66.
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Post by ramone on Oct 27, 2009 0:38:13 GMT -5
PdL: "Whether its easy or not to change the part of one's hair isn't the point (although my hair naturally parts on the left and will only part on the right with LOTS of product and effort). The point is that the particular individual in question (McCartney) seems to have altered a life-long pattern of parting his hair on the left in favor of parting it on the right, and he did so in the time frame that is relevant to the entire purpose of this board. "
Very true. That being said, the hair part part is just part of the whole thing that weighs in the PWR direction.
And that being said, we're getting away from the photo part part. I believe it's called a digression. Something I've never done in my life.
Except there was this incident back in '78 when....
Oh wait - ok the pic.
Now, you might, just might see a guy coming out of starbucks that somewhat looks like JPM. Possible.
And, you could have some redheaded guy, for example, in the studio with Wings doing some task.
But, what are the odds there's a guy that looks just like JPM, that just happens to be in a (most likely closed) studio with Wings (a band that just happens to have a connection with who? - yup, the Beatles)? Let what's happening here really sink in. (contemplating)
Ok, I don't know much about these sessions, but can only guess not just anybody can just saunter in. (much less pick up a guitar and sit down) You either belong there or are invited.
So who's guitar guy? Somebody's cousin Al from Cleveland that just happens to look almost exactly like James Paul?
'Ok Al, the other guys are mad I invited you while we're trying to work. But if you just sit there and be quiet it'll probably be alright. Whatever you do, don't try to play a guitar or something -
Al!!!'
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Post by -Wings- on Oct 27, 2009 2:34:06 GMT -5
Yes, it's odd how this guy that looks remarkably like JPM keeps popping up alongside the "public" Paul. First in 1968, then in 1978, then in 1984... Funny how, as famous as the Beatles entourage was in its own right, this guy just somehow slipped through the history books. Ou est le soleil? Right there the whole time.
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Post by iameye on Oct 27, 2009 13:33:44 GMT -5
Yes, it's odd how this guy that looks remarkably like JPM keeps popping up alongside the "public" Paul. First in 1968, then in 1978, then in 1984... Funny how, as famous as the Beatles entourage was in its own right, this guy just somehow slipped through the history books. Ou est le soleil? Right there the whole time. uh, isn't that second photo John Lennon, Wings? (image not impied to be the same) Beatle Boat Lunch!
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Post by -Wings- on Oct 27, 2009 15:49:57 GMT -5
It doesn't look like John. The nose isn't as arched, not to mention the facial, hair, and clothing differences. Meanwhile, he's hanging out in the exact same spot as our Paul candidate, and wearing the same style of sunglasses he was seen sporting in 1966.
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Post by 8749 on Oct 27, 2009 16:59:57 GMT -5
The second photo is John. The fourth photo is the Italian-looking "Paul." Maybe that's Dino Danelli.
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Post by ramone on Oct 27, 2009 17:29:14 GMT -5
Yes, it's odd how this guy that looks remarkably like JPM keeps popping up alongside the "public" Paul. First in 1968, then in 1978, then in 1984... Funny how, as famous as the Beatles entourage was in its own right, this guy just somehow slipped through the history books. Ou est le soleil? Right there the whole time. I'm leaning towards John, but really one and three are central to the thread. Pic four is important - it definitely shows a reflective difference. (same MO - remember the Eppy pic of him reflecting off the table?) But, central are pics one and three. It seems everyone 's always looking for some big clue. Well, these are probably in the top 5 or so. As someone said before, the chinese junk pic is a smoking gun. It's an absolutely amazing find! The Wings pic (even if the junk pic never was discovered) on it's own is possibly more amazing! But together they reinforce each other in an extraordinary way - so that they have a value together that exceeds either one. Sort of like two strands of rope that have a strength separately, but wound together have even more.
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Post by JoJo on Oct 27, 2009 20:23:11 GMT -5
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Post by plastic paul on Oct 28, 2009 7:47:42 GMT -5
Of course that's John.
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Post by ramone on Nov 3, 2009 22:49:14 GMT -5
And finally, This was actually brighter but I toned it down. Talk about the same features! Nose, mouth, chin, lashes, etc. Same distinctive sideburn - just add some hair across the ear and let his hair grow out some and you have the wings hair. (if someone knows how to do it go ahead) Don't forget to add some years (which seems to include a fuller face (and doesn't that happen to most of us)) Great research Ramone! This is James Paul. I recently showed these pics to a family member who's a really good artist. She saw the chinese junk and the wings session. She used comparison shots like above for the wings pic. It didn't take her to long to blurt out - 'yup, same guy!' She helps make herself a living doing portraits etc, and she can do some amazing true to life stuff (which means accuracy for these types). Which of course means she has to really look at features of a face, proportions, subtle things that most people probably don't notice much. And she caught things about guitar guy's mouth, chin and other areas that just matched right up. Didn't seem like a hard conclusion for her to come to. Doesn't mean it has to be JPM because her of her opinion. But I got the impression it was a slam dunk. And I do respect the fact she's a pro at what she does, and also if she didn't think it was a match, or close match, she'd just say so.
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Jude
Hard Day's Night
Acting Naturally
Posts: 34
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Post by Jude on Nov 11, 2009 6:35:36 GMT -5
Um... I can part my hair however I want. Come on, we're talking about hair, the most easily changeable feature ever. You think the people who "transformed" Faul gave him the correct freckles, flaws and wrinkles, but missed the hair? In addition, the song "Won't Get Fooled Again", written by a contemporary of Paul, includes the line "And the parting on the left is now parting on the right", which is an odd line in the context of a supposedly political song, and it makes more sense when viewed through the lens of PWR. I never did understand why the Beatles' contemporaries would want to sneak lyrics related to the cover-up into their songs. Assuming there was a cover-up and they knew of it, why would The Who care enough to leave "clues" of it's existence? A band's primary agenda is to promote themselves, their music, and/or their agenda, not make obscure references to the underhanded goings-on of other groups. If you really want to look into a song with potentially conspiracy-related lyrics, read about the CIA's Project MKUltra and then listen to Simon and Garfunkle's "Mrs. Robinson": And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson Jesus loves you more than you will know (Wo, wo, wo) God bless you please, Mrs. Robinson Heaven holds a place for those who pray (Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)
We'd like to know a little bit about you for our files We'd like to help you learn to help yourself Look around you, all you see are sympathetic eyes Stroll around the grounds until you feel at home
And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson Jesus loves you more than you will know (Wo, wo, wo) God bless you please, Mrs. Robinson Heaven holds a place for those who pray (Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)
Hide it in a hiding place where no one ever goes Put it in your pantry with your cupcakes It's a little secret, just the Robinsons' affair Most of all, you've got to hide it from the kids
Coo, coo, ca-choo, Mrs Robinson Jesus loves you more than you will know (Wo, wo, wo) God bless you please, Mrs. Robinson Heaven holds a place for those who pray (Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)
Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon Going to the candidates debate Laugh about it, shout about it When you've got to choose Ev'ry way you look at it, you lose
Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio A nation turns it's lonely eyes to you (Woo, woo, woo) What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson Joltin' Joe has left and gone away (Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)
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Jude
Hard Day's Night
Acting Naturally
Posts: 34
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Post by Jude on Nov 11, 2009 6:37:29 GMT -5
The second photo is John. Something we can agree on for a change!
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Nov 11, 2009 9:39:49 GMT -5
In addition, the song "Won't Get Fooled Again", written by a contemporary of Paul, includes the line "And the parting on the left is now parting on the right", which is an odd line in the context of a supposedly political song, and it makes more sense when viewed through the lens of PWR. I never did understand why the Beatles' contemporaries would want to sneak lyrics related to the cover-up into their songs. Assuming there was a cover-up and they knew of it, why would The Who care enough to leave "clues" of it's existence? A band's primary agenda is to promote themselves, their music, and/or their agenda, not make obscure references to the underhanded goings-on of other groups. If you really want to look into a song with potentially conspiracy-related lyrics, read about the CIA's Project MKUltra and then listen to Simon and Garfunkle's "Mrs. Robinson": And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson Jesus loves you more than you will know (Wo, wo, wo) God bless you please, Mrs. Robinson Heaven holds a place for those who pray (Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)
We'd like to know a little bit about you for our files We'd like to help you learn to help yourself Look around you, all you see are sympathetic eyes Stroll around the grounds until you feel at home
And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson Jesus loves you more than you will know (Wo, wo, wo) God bless you please, Mrs. Robinson Heaven holds a place for those who pray (Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)
Hide it in a hiding place where no one ever goes Put it in your pantry with your cupcakes It's a little secret, just the Robinsons' affair Most of all, you've got to hide it from the kids
Coo, coo, ca-choo, Mrs Robinson Jesus loves you more than you will know (Wo, wo, wo) God bless you please, Mrs. Robinson Heaven holds a place for those who pray (Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)
Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon Going to the candidates debate Laugh about it, shout about it When you've got to choose Ev'ry way you look at it, you lose
Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio A nation turns it's lonely eyes to you (Woo, woo, woo) What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson Joltin' Joe has left and gone away (Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)I'm not all that interested in trying to divine the motives of people I've never met, Jude. I said that the "parting" line in "Won't Get Fooled Again" makes more sense when viewed through the lens of PWR, and I think that it does. After all, what on earth does "the parting on the left is now parting on the right" mean in any normal context? It's a line in what seems to be a very literal song about the cyclical nature of politics, but suddenly we're confronted with flip-flopping "partings". It doesn't make sense... ...unless one examines the song from a code-breaking perspective, in which case one would look for anomalies, which is where the meaning would be hidden. Again, I can't speak for WHY Townshend would have been tipping us off, but I CAN say that if my world-famous friend were suddenly replaced, that I might try to subtly tell the world about it. As for Mrs. Robinson... I believe we've discussed that one more than a few times, and it there DEFINITELY seems to be tons of MK potential in that one. It might not even be silly to equate "Coo, coo, ca-choo" with Goo Goo G'oob.
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Jude
Hard Day's Night
Acting Naturally
Posts: 34
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Post by Jude on Nov 11, 2009 10:06:34 GMT -5
Again, I can't speak for WHY Townshend would have been tipping us off, but I CAN say that if my world-famous friend were suddenly replaced, that I might try to subtly tell the world about it. Fair enough, PD, but I've never heard of Paul McCartney and Pete Townshend being any more than friendly acquaintances. Do you think they were really "friends" in the sense that if Paul were to die and be replaced by a look-alike Pete would go out of his way to write vague clues about it?
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Jude
Hard Day's Night
Acting Naturally
Posts: 34
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Post by Jude on Nov 11, 2009 10:13:32 GMT -5
The Wings pic (even if the junk pic never was discovered) on it's own is possibly more amazing! I get what's amazing about the junk pic: a guy who looks incredibly like JPM is standing just a few feet away from "Paul". But what's so special about the Wings pic? It just looks like Sir Paul to me. It probably wouldn't be difficult to find other photos of Sir Paul similar to that one taken in 1978.
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Nov 11, 2009 10:59:45 GMT -5
Again, I can't speak for WHY Townshend would have been tipping us off, but I CAN say that if my world-famous friend were suddenly replaced, that I might try to subtly tell the world about it. Fair enough, PD, but I've never heard of Paul McCartney and Pete Townshend being any more than friendly acquaintances. Do you think they were really "friends" in the sense that if Paul were to die and be replaced by a look-alike Pete would go out of his way to write vague clues about it? The only way I can answer you, Jude, is to do it from my perspective, so... The Beatles and The Who were contemporaries. They were both part of "a scene" in the same city. I've been part of the Brooklyn Indiepop scene for the past ten years. I mentioned this recently in another thread, but I used to buy my vintage teeshirts and pay Karen O, the cashier, or Carlos D., the cashier before they made it big. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Oen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_DenglerNow, Brooklyn is a VERY big place, and NYC is (obviously) an even bigger place, but WE ALL KNOW EACH OTHER. We play shows together, and we get drunk and jam together, and we go to the same bars, and coffee shops, and we all talk about who is signing to what label, and when we saw "X and Y hooking up the other night", etc. My point is not to name drop, but to make it clear that music scenes are very small, insular worlds, and you KNOW what's going on with everyone, all of the time. In this context, Townshend dropping lyrical hints about PWR seems completely natural to me. And by the way, another Townshend lyric is: "You declared you would be 3 inches taller, you only became what we made you."
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Post by skyward on Nov 11, 2009 16:25:36 GMT -5
The Wings pic (even if the junk pic never was discovered) on it's own is possibly more amazing! I get what's amazing about the junk pic: a guy who looks incredibly like JPM is standing just a few feet away from "Paul". But what's so special about the Wings pic? It just looks like Sir Paul to me. It probably wouldn't be difficult to find other photos of Sir Paul similar to that one taken in 1978. I thought the Wings session pic also showed SPM along with the mystery guy?
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Post by il ras on Nov 11, 2009 17:22:17 GMT -5
I don't understand Jude's post too...
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Post by ramone on Nov 11, 2009 22:53:53 GMT -5
Not to speak for Jude , but I think he's saying guitar guy looks like Bill. (or Sir Paul) But he'd be the first person that's checked it out that's expressed that. - I mean of people I've spoken to about it anyway.
If anything, it's been a far lean in the direction of JPM - especially when viewed in light of comparison pics of pre-'66, '67 JPM shots.
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Post by skyward on Nov 12, 2009 0:37:36 GMT -5
Not to speak for Jude , but I think he's saying guitar guy looks like Bill. (or Sir Paul) But he'd be the first person that's checked it out that's expressed that. - I mean of people I've spoken to about it anyway. If anything, it's been a far lean in the direction of JPM - especially when viewed in light of comparison pics of pre-'66, '67 JPM shots. Go back to the first post on page 1, by Il Ras, and it appears that SPM is playing the upright bass violin and the other guy resembles JPM. Jude seems to be saying that the junk boat pic is notable because both guys are present in the picture, but the other pic is not notable, because we only see one guy. That isn't accurate.
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Post by pataphysical on Nov 12, 2009 5:20:38 GMT -5
In my Italian forum ( ilras.proboards.com), a member, blaureuter, pointed out that there is something strange in this picture taken in 1978 during the "back to the egg" studio session. Who's the guy with the guitar? It would be toooo much if it was HIM but I'm still curious to know his identity. Even if he's playing right-handed that isn't so important... Maybe he found Danny Laine's one and tried it. Picture taken from this site (go to 1978) webpages.charter.net/ram71/The guitar player is clearly Laurence Juber. The guy with the Wings t-shirt (sitting) is Steve Holly. Most likely, the guy on the right is Chris Thomas, co-producer of the "Back to the Egg" album. If you look very closely, the guy on the right has a large nose and a mustache, which neither Laurence or Steve had. We all know the other two are Paul and Denny (I hope ) -pata
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Post by il ras on Nov 12, 2009 9:55:45 GMT -5
Juber in that period had a different look... Much longer hair... also the "look" of the guy is strange.. his suit is not exactly what you expect from a rocker...
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Post by ramone on Nov 12, 2009 9:56:25 GMT -5
Not to speak for Jude , but I think he's saying guitar guy looks like Bill. (or Sir Paul) But he'd be the first person that's checked it out that's expressed that. - I mean of people I've spoken to about it anyway. If anything, it's been a far lean in the direction of JPM - especially when viewed in light of comparison pics of pre-'66, '67 JPM shots. Go back to the first post on page 1, by Il Ras, and it appears that SPM is playing the upright bass violin and the other guy resembles JPM. Jude seems to be saying that the junk boat pic is notable because both guys are present in the picture, but the other pic is not notable, because we only see one guy. That isn't accurate. Yes , SPM would be the one playing upright. Plus, it just looks like him.
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Post by ramone on Nov 12, 2009 10:03:58 GMT -5
And finally, This was actually brighter but I toned it down. Talk about the same features! Nose, mouth, chin, lashes, etc. Same distinctive sideburn - just add some hair across the ear and let his hair grow out some and you have the wings hair. (if someone knows how to do it go ahead) Don't forget to add some years (which seems to include a fuller face (and doesn't that happen to most of us)) If it's thought that guitar guy is Juber, I'd like to see a pic of him from 1978 that would match guitar guy better than the JPM pics (example above) I don't see how it could be closer, but go ahead, give it a whirl.
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