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Post by astro4 on May 31, 2014 12:48:46 GMT -5
Paul McCartney’s Presence or Absence at the 1966 Melody Maker Awards Here is Melody Maker’s announcement for its 1966 award ceremony – in its 17th September issue. It tells us how the event was attended by ‘people from all sides of show business', including ‘many representatives from Britain’s press.’ It was alluding to the previous Tuesday the 13th, when, in the posh restaurant at the top of London’s Post Office Tower, we are told that the ceremony took place - at lunchtime. Melody Maker commented: “Beatles tighten grip on honours: The Beatles slipping? Forget it. British fans have once more given them an enormous vote of confidence and voted them winners of four sections in the MM poll. …this year they have won the top group and best vocal disc sections in both the British and international sections of the poll.” Here’s a happy picture of Ringo and Paul, together with Tom Jones and Dusty Springfield, the winners, ‘with their awards at the Melody Maker Pop Poll luncheon in the GPO Tower restaurant.’ Maybe we can see London behind, through the windows of the Post Office Tower? This image is registered as a ‘Photo by Terry Disney/Express/Getty Images’ and says ‘Date created: September 13, 1966’ (http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/paul-mccartney-dusty-springfield-tom-jones-and-ringo-starr-news-photo/3205716 ). Well I guess that settles it - doesn’t it? Hmm, not entirely. I could find no evidence that any journalist witnessed this event, nor any published photo of the event anytime in September or October. The interviews given were only by journos who phoned up Tom Jones at his home or place of work. There was no suggestion of anyone contacting Paul McCartney, at this glorious apogee of his career.. Something smells fishy. The Daily Mail ran a story on the 13th (‘Beatles are still voted top’) about the results, with no suggestion that there was any award ceremony. We turn to London’s paper the Evening Standard on the 13th - as it was a luncheon, there should have been plenty of time to report it for this evening paper. But, all we read is: Said Tom at his home in Shepperton today: This is fantastic news. I thought I might be in the top ten, but I never dreamed I would take over from an established artist like Cliff. Hmm ,that seems odd. We get no hint that either the journo or Tom Jones had just been to the Post Office Tower for a posh lunch – of which all London would have been proud and glad to hear about. The story made the front page of The Mirror on the 14th as its lead story – but only as an anecdote of Dusty Springfield throwing a tart at someone. ( ‘Take that! Dusty hits waiter’s boss with a pie’) No mention of the Beatles winning anything! The identical inane tale also turned up in the Daily Express on that same day (‘ Dusty gets a ‘Hit’ and a ‘Miss’ with two cheese tarts’) – again with no mention of the Beatles. For both papers, that was all they had to say. From this we may infer that neither paper had journalists present - they were just fed the story. We remember that the Getty image was co-owned by the ‘Express’ paper - in that case, why did The Express not want to use this lovely image? Britain was acquiring massive prestige all over the world from its groups and singers dominating the charts – and this was the biggest pop music boom in history. The UK was getting a huge income from Beatle records: would not such a photo of happy, young and beautiful people be newsworthy? Why is there no picture of it in any newspaper or in any music mag? (please correct me if I’m wrong here) Maybe this image is rather doubtful. It shows the four stars all gazing in quite different directions. None has any shadow falling on the other to link them. 'Paul' has a traced-out shadow on the window behind, but none of the others do. The MM 'awards' they are holding are quite different from those in other pics, see below. I just don't believe the way 'Paul' is holding a glass of wine, a cigarette and this MM award. It looks as if this MM 'award' has just been put on top of Paul's hands, not as if he is holding it. We’ve quoted from the Melody Maker’s report on 17th September, here was its comment on Tom Jones’victory: Tom excitedly rang the MM when he heard the news of his sweeping Pop Poll victory. ‘I was thrilled to bits when I heard the news’ said Tom during his lunch break while filming at Elstree Studios. Again it’s just a phone call, presumably made a day or two before the event – nothing about the event itself. Over a million copies of Revolver had then been sold (as reported on 9 September, 1966) and this album was then number one on both sides of the Atlantic, making that the twentieth Beatle gold disc – this was the staggering apogee of JPM’s career. He also scored pretty well by himself in the Melody Maker’s Best Vocalist list. When else had any 24 year old lad ever achieved so much, ever done so much for his country? And yet we get no hint that any journo wished to go over to Cavendish Avenue to get an interview? It’s as if he just wasn’t there. The Beatles Book We do get just one published photograph … in the November issue of the monthly Beatles Book. It doesn’t sound as if anyone had been present - we only get a brief caption saying: “It was all handshakes and smiles from Paul and Ringo when they received their Melody Maker award on behalf of the Beatles for being voted Britain’s top group, from Johnny Mathis.” Uh-Huh. The picture shows a vacant-looking Paul McCartney lookalike not even making eye contact while shaking hands with Johnny Mathis. This picture needs captions. Mathis is saying “Huh, who’s this wax dummy supposed to be?” and Ringo is saying “Don’t worry, I’m a real Beatle!” That’s the only published picture - finally, two months later. I suggest the person in it is not Faul – just a quickly-acquired look alike stand-in. From this, I suggest one should conclude: the catastrophe had taken place. But, the show had to go on….
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Post by linus on May 31, 2014 15:35:20 GMT -5
Here’s film footage of the 1966 Meldody Maker Awards. The picture shows a vacant-looking Paul McCartney lookalike not even making eye contact while shaking hands with Johnny Mathis. The same could be said of Mathis. This picture needs captions. Mathis is saying “Huh, who’s this wax dummy supposed to be?” and Ringo is saying “Don’t worry, I’m a real Beatle!” See the excess plastic by Ringo's sideburn. The above is from the Sept. 1966 Melody Maker Award ceremony. This is not, but we see the same anomaly near his ear. Here's another magazine article on the event. There are many photos to be found of this event, googling "Melody Maker Awards 1966" brings up quite a few. That’s the only published picture - finally, two months later. I suggest the person in it is not Faul – just a quickly-acquired look alike stand-in. From this, I suggest one should conclude: the catastrophe had taken place. But, the show had to go on…. May I ask; if he seemingly looks more like Paul than most PIDers would likely say 'Faul' does, why didn't they keep him? I say that because every time this event is brought up, it seems about half of the people say it's Paul and the other say it's not. If it's not, shouldn't it be unanimous?PS Going back to that Getty 'Express' image, we notice that the four characters are all staring in quite different directions, none of them looking at each other; the guy supposed to be Paul McCartney holds a cigarette and a glass of wine, and its not clear how he is holding his MM award. Seems he's holding the glass in his right hand with the cig in the fingers, and holding the leg of the frame in his left hand. It should also be noted that some PIDers say that this is Paul at the ceremony. Can you point out how this Paul is different from before this point?
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Post by astro4 on Jun 5, 2014 5:03:11 GMT -5
Linus - Thanks for your helpful comments. You write, of a published image, “The above is from the Sept. 1966 Melody Maker Award ceremony” Well, we can all agree that it is SUPPOSED to be that. Can we focus on MATERIAL PUBLISHED IN 1966? If you can say WHERE and WHEN the image you have cited was published, I will gladly go and check it up. Then we can be sure that it is real, i.e. historical. (I’m using the big, newly-opened British Library Newspaper room)
I'm not interested in undated material floating around the Web half a century later.
The weird effect around Ringo's ear is a further reason for wondering, where this pic came from? Fake pictures may have been put out years later.
For another image you say: “Here's another magazine article on the event.” Could you please say WHAT magazine this comes from? I will be happy to check through it. The MM 'Pop Poll' award 'Paul' is here seen holding, is quite different from the smaller ones they all have in the Getty image. And the sky looks awfully dark through the window behind, for a noon luncheon. The other image you show (with Ringo's funny ear) is again dark and shady - the Post Office Tower restaurant had big windows all around to give a view of London.
……………. You ask concerning the Getty image, “It should also be noted that some PIDers say that this is Paul at the ceremony. Can you point out how this Paul is different from before this point?” No I can’t, it looks like the Beautiful Boy - but, I've got a friend who reckons it could be Dino Danelli, the Rascals drummer. I am ONLY requesting that we try to ascertain whether this image was ever published, or published in 1966, before any further issues are discussed.
You ask concerning the Beatles Book image; 'if he [the 'Paul' figure] seemingly looks more like Paul than most PIDers would likely say 'Faul' does, why didn't they keep him?' Answer: this one is mute, he cannot sing, so he's only temporary.
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Jun 6, 2014 16:09:09 GMT -5
In regards to the Melody Maker announcement published on September 17, 1966, it says that top pop stars attended it on Tuesday (which would be September 13, 1966. It looks to me like the real Paul McCartney at the event (as do Ringo and the other pop stars look genuine, not imposters). But if the Sept. 13th date of the event is true. then it would mean changing the way some of clues are viewed... (A couple books: The Beatles 365 - Simon Wells. It has the Sept. 13, 1966 date and enlarged photos of Ringo showing off his rings and of Paul, Dusty, Tom, and Ringo (the book does not have page numbers). The Beatles Unseen Archives - Tim Hill and Marie Clayton. Page 188 has an enlarged photo of Paul, Dusty, Tom, and Ringo.)
For example, the Sgt. Peppers drum (I ONE I X) could still be a date, but it may be the 3rd of October--which would have been a Monday(I still think November would be too late). Or it could be 3 Beatles alive (I ONE I) and 1 Beatle dead (X). Also the gravestone in Free As Bird still shows a silhouette of a left-handed guitarist, but the idea that it also says September 12 cannot be right. On the other hand, the day of Tuesday could give weight to John Lennon's line about "Stupid bloody Tuesday" in "I Am The Walrus (whether it be Sept. 13 or the day after Monday, Oct 3 (Oct 3rd is also a day when Brian Epstein felt compelled to come out of a hospital where he was staying for respite, and put to rest rumors that Paul was leaving the band).
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Post by astro4 on Jun 7, 2014 5:09:06 GMT -5
Here is some 'archival footage' on the web of Melody Maker awards: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiNqEhuruL8. The 'Beatles History' puts out for 19 September - www.dmbeatles.com/history.php?year=1966 'Presentation of prizes of `Melody Maker'. The Beatles have been voted winners on British & International Sections in the 1966 Poll. Ringo and Paul attend' Well that date is rubbish.
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Post by linus on Jun 7, 2014 14:23:45 GMT -5
The link you provided is for footage from the 1963 Melody Maker Awards. (Also notice Paul is drinking right-handed as usual). The video I embedded above is from the 1966 Melody Maker Awards. At the end of the clip there is a quick shot of the tower, but that's where the video ends.
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Post by astro4 on Jun 8, 2014 5:17:36 GMT -5
OK sorry for that mistake. Here is an an enlargement of the strange 'Ringo's Ear' is the pic Linus provided, of unknown source.
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Jun 8, 2014 16:25:59 GMT -5
The photograph illustrates a bit of an optical illusion in regard to Ringo's ear. What some think is a weird malformation, possibly showing a plastic ear, is actually just strands of hair and bare skin between the sideburn and ear. One can go to a library or bookstore, open up a book with large glossy Beatles photos, find images of Ringo and the Melody Maker awards, and one will not find him wearing plastic ears. img.beatles.ru/f/2263b/2263688.jpg
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Post by astro4 on Jun 9, 2014 16:48:31 GMT -5
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Post by astro4 on Jun 10, 2014 4:31:15 GMT -5
The 'conclusive evidence' is the fact that no papers anywhere showed any photo of that event within a couple of months after, nor did any journalist anywhere report as having been there.
Rightly or wrongly, I am therefore drawing the conclusion, that by then 13th September Paul was dead.
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Post by Red Lion on Jun 10, 2014 13:46:26 GMT -5
Rightly or wrongly, I am therefore drawing the conclusion, that by then 13th September Paul was dead. Body please?
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Post by because on Jun 10, 2014 22:50:00 GMT -5
John Lennon said "I buried Paul." He didn't tell us where.....
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Post by linus on Jun 11, 2014 1:08:44 GMT -5
(and then denies telling us he buried Paul).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 10:21:28 GMT -5
Yes.Melody Maker
melisma "a song, an air, a tune, melody" ode "lyric song" an elaborately structured poem praising or glorifying an event or individual, describing nature intellectually as well as emotionally. maker "one who makes," also "God as Creator"
www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=make&allowed_in_frame=0 Old English Macian"'beauty is truth, truth beauty,' – that is All / Ye know on earth, and All ye need to know" As we fell into the Sun.lol
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 12:33:45 GMT -5
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Post by astro4 on Jun 11, 2014 12:48:24 GMT -5
Some folks seem to want more by way of answers than the historical record is likely to provide. So permit me to quote Wittgenstein: “Of that which you know, speak clearly; of that which you don’t, remain silent.” For a start, why was George not there, if you believe the MM award ceremony happened on the 13th? Only Ringo and ‘Paul’. Epstein cancelled his ‘Star scene ‘66’ a promotional party, scheduled for 13th September. dmbeatles.com/history.php?year=1966 He loved these kind of events, why would he have cancelled it? After the MM Awards at lunchtime, his party would have followed on in the evening - just right. Here is what he did in 1965: 1965 party hosted by Brian: Star Scene ’65, at the Scotch of St James Club, London. Guests among others: the Everly Brothers, Ringo and Maureen, P.J.Proby, Eric Burdon, George and Pattie, Paul, Jimmy Tarbuck, Micky Most, Billy J.Kramer, the Dakotas, Cilla Black. maccafunhouse.proboards.com/thread/1601The ‘Beatles History’(link above) just says, for the 13th September 1966: ‘The `Melody Maker' editor signs the certificate of the Beatles as winners in the 1966 poll in British and International Sections of the magazine’ – and that is absolutely correct. To get Tom Jones' story about receiving his top award, journos had to phone him up at his home or the studio where he was working. I rest my case. Paul was dead.
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Jun 11, 2014 15:11:50 GMT -5
In Miles's timeline, there's no mention of Brian Epstein being forced to emerge from his recuperation clinic (on October 3rd) to deny reports that Paul McCartney was leaving the group either, but that doesn't mean it did not happen.
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Post by seasaltcaramel on Jun 11, 2014 17:35:55 GMT -5
The award does seem to be resting on his hand in an unnatural way, doesn't it? Unless it is one of those picture frames with A STAND! Notice how Dusty is holding hers... You can even download the image and zoom in to see Tom Jones' award has one. Good "God", people. (Great research, though.)
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Post by seasaltcaramel on Jun 11, 2014 17:46:16 GMT -5
The award does seem to be resting on his hand in an unnatural way, doesn't it? Unless it is one of those picture frames with A STAND! Hmmm....this is genuinely weird as Paul appears otherwise to be crossing his hands occupied with both fag (that's british for cigarette not an admission of his supposed Tavistock sexuality, kids) and wine glass. This almost made me want to scream 'IT'S A CONSPIRACY!' but instead I'm going to see what version Photoshoppe was at in 1966. The Award has a stand. Like I said, look at Dusty. Unless, of course, this is just a modern Photoshop mindfuck, in which case, go crazy finding evidence for it. The stand is resting around his thumb/palm, and it took 10 seconds to take this photo.
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Post by linus on Jun 11, 2014 21:23:06 GMT -5
Seems he's holding the glass in his right hand with the cig in the fingers, and holding the leg of the frame in his left hand. Dusty is holding the stand, too. footage with Mathis.
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Post by seasaltcaramel on Jun 11, 2014 21:29:13 GMT -5
What's with the Purple circle on the color on the lower photo? I'm getting all bummed out looking at the ads at this place...
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Post by seasaltcaramel on Jun 11, 2014 21:33:20 GMT -5
As mentioned on page one Seems he's holding the glass in his right hand with the cig in the fingers, and holding the leg of the frame in his left hand. Dusty is holding the stand, too. You people are photoshop Pranksters... Now I seriously doubt any of these images are real. This is why I mind my Ps and Qs when I come here and just post, because there is ALWAYS a mindfuck around the corner. Dusty Springfield SUCKS. Tom Jones SUCKS. The Beatles SUCK. NME, Melody Maker, Rolling Stone... EVERYTHING SUCKS! Grow your Own! Period. If you deny, try it; YOURSELF. Fuck them.
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Post by linus on Jun 11, 2014 21:38:18 GMT -5
Or you can google "McCartney Melody Maker 1966" like I did and find the same photos I did As I suggested on page one. I'm literally saying the same thing your saying in regards to the picture frames. A minute ago you called me a genius. Then deleted it. Now you call me a mindfuck. I just post what I find. If anyone's a mindfuck, it's the Beatles.
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Post by seasaltcaramel on Jun 11, 2014 21:50:50 GMT -5
Or you can google "McCartney Melody Maker 1966" like I did and find the same photos I did As I suggested on page one. A minute ago you called me a genius. Then deleted it. Now you call me a mindfuck. I just post what I find. If anyone's a mindfuck, it's the Beatles. I called you a genius because you posted this: With the phrases: "I buried Paul... ...But I won't tell you where."
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Post by seasaltcaramel on Jun 11, 2014 21:52:37 GMT -5
You, Linus, are a Prankster:
"Sherlock Holmes to Watson: 'Never theorize before you have data. Invariably, you end up twisting facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.'"
Try it.
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