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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 4, 2007 19:07:51 GMT -5
I'm putting this in the "Related Pix and Links" department rather than the "Clues" section, because I don't know whether these clues tie to the Beatles or not, but I suspect they do. I'd have sworn I'd seen a post about this topic in some of Valis's posts, but the search engine has come up empty. Anyway: Pink Floyd did an album called "The Division Bell" that apparently had the pictures below on the sleeve. I am not at all familiar with it, so I haven't paid attention to the mystery of "publius" - 'til now. And the reason I'm paying attention to it now, is that apparently when "A Momentary Lapse of Reason" was released on CD, they included the pictures on it that had been on the "Division Bell" album. They are shown below, along with what is apparently a slightly modified cover to "A Momentary Lapse (etc.)" which now features a somewhat McCartney-esque young man on one of the beds: Here are some links to websites that talk about the publius/enigma enigma: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publius_Enigmawww.pinkfloyd-co.com/unt/unt_enigma/unt_enigma.htmlIn this wiki entry, we have "publius" as a "friend of the people": en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PubliusI will have more to say about this in a day or so. In my less-than-humble opinion, "A Momentary Lapse of Reason" is a key to understanding the whole PID/PWR enigma, as is David Gilmour's "On an Island", of course. ;D
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Post by jarvitronics on Jul 4, 2007 19:32:06 GMT -5
Publius was a pseudonym used by Alexander Hamilton when writing The Federalist Papers.
There was also an historically significant Roman Consul named Publius, circa 510 B.C.
(Just some first thoughts...)
-j
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Post by Valis on Jul 4, 2007 19:33:57 GMT -5
You're not going crazy 4000, I posted about the Floyd's Publius Enigma mystery a long time ago. The next article lifts up a bit of that veil, but ofcourse there is much more. folk.uio.no/ericsp/report1.htmI'm very busy now handling my life but I hope to come back to it soon, like some other very interesting threads. All Love Jan
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Post by JoJo on Jul 4, 2007 20:47:17 GMT -5
Amazing 4KH and Jan, I vaguely remember this from way back, glad to see it back in the forefront. The most amazing part: By July, some fans were convinced and believed that Publius was genuine and sincere, others however were still in doubt. Publius was clearly aware of these events because he then decided to give the doubters a clear and conclusive sign of proof that what he was saying was true. He announced a display that would be seen during the East Rutherford show in New Jersey for July 18, and even gave an approximate time when this would happen. And it did. The display was given during Keep Talking.So it was above and beyond the usual poster adopting a "cryptic personna", this surely would be enough to convince the most skeptical. But no, the trolling got worse, and people took the discussion private, even though Publius asked from the beginning to keep the discourse within the newsgroup. They attacked the messenger, rather than listen to the message.. Rings a bell.. An aside, I remember reading about that anonymous "penet.fi" service for posting on Usenet, it was run by a finnish guy who finally got fed up with it. Even though he was was a fierce believer in the right of people to post anonymously, a court order to turn over records pertaining to posts on a scientology newsgroup finally forced him to give up.
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Post by JoJo on Jul 4, 2007 20:52:06 GMT -5
*Click* I think you are correct...
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Post by mysteryboy on Jul 4, 2007 20:55:32 GMT -5
*Click* I think you are correct... Sorry, I was modifying and hit delete by accident, so here is my ramble again, with some added bits. I'll give you a little clue, though by no means should it be taken as The Truth. This will be a bit of a ramble. " If I don't promise you the answers would you go. Do you think that I know something you don't know?" - Publius It is Syd. A Greek-like statue (huge at that) of Barrett's bust was paraded through the streets of Barrett's home town of Cambridge as "The Division Bell" was released. Publius. I don't have a capture of it, but I remember thinking Ceasar when I saw it years ago. *The statue, that is. Like the Beatles, Pink Floyd knew that there are two things people will always love: Love itself and a good mystery. BTW. if any of you could do a fade of a 1966 Syd versus a 1990s period Syd fade I'd greatly appreciate it.
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Post by JoJo on Jul 4, 2007 21:21:43 GMT -5
I would be willing to do my best, and the 1966 stuff may be easy to find, but do you have any 90's pics or know where I could find one?
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Post by mysteryboy on Jul 4, 2007 21:30:17 GMT -5
I would be willing to do my best, and the 1966 stuff may be easy to find, but do you have any 90's pics or know where I could find one? As always, much appreciated Jojo. I will supply them ASAP.
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 5, 2007 19:47:14 GMT -5
Syd may have been Publius (or not), but what was the message? "....the writer asked the specific question if we, the fans, had heard -the message Pink Floyd has delivered-. It was only a few months earlier that the pilot of the airship 'Division Belle' had read similar words, from a piece of paper, given to him by a band member and read to the press ...it was something about Pink Floyd bringing a message to North America."[/i] In any case, here is the cover of "The Division Bell". (I guess the other pictures were on the back.) Have a look. and Tell Me What You SEE!
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Post by Valis on Jul 5, 2007 20:09:19 GMT -5
I see this: It seems I can't copy the other pic I'm thinking of in this context, go to www.alexgrey.com >paintings> progression of the soul> journey of the wounded healer I hope someone can grab that pic and put it on here, And thinking a lot of the works of Joseph Campbell, the start , the middle , and the ending. All Love Jan
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Post by JoJo on Jul 5, 2007 20:40:57 GMT -5
No prob:
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 5, 2007 21:48:01 GMT -5
Valis wrote: I see this:----------- You do?! What I see is that if the two faces were brought together, they would form a shape like a heart on a pedestal. I also see this: which looks a little bit like this: and somehow, I don't think it's a coincidence. Valis wrote: "...the start , the middle , and the ending." The Boston album cover looks a lot like one of the covers used for the paperback version of the Arthur C. Clarke book "Childhood's END" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childhood%27s_End"The 1953 edition of the story begins w (ith) enormous alien spaceships one day appearing above all of the Earth's major cities." remember: www.pinkfloyd-co.com/unt/unt_enigma/unt_enigma.html"...the pilot of the airship 'Division Belle' ("airship", eh?)had read similar words, from a piece of paper, given to him by a band member and read to the press ...it was something about Pink Floyd bringing a message to North America."
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Post by jarvitronics on Jul 5, 2007 22:48:26 GMT -5
The eyes are targets.
-j
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Post by iameye on Jul 5, 2007 23:10:26 GMT -5
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Post by jarvitronics on Jul 6, 2007 0:04:56 GMT -5
A circle with a dot in the center (a target) is an ancient symbol for the sun, so in a sense, these targets for eyes are sort of like saying SUN IN HIS (HER) EYES -j
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Post by jarvitronics on Jul 6, 2007 0:23:07 GMT -5
Jes fer sheets and gaggles... I think the dude here looks like he has a walrus moustache. He reminds me of the bust in the yard on Sgt Pepper. His eye sockets are shaped like the letter D. Eye D. There are two eyes, so double eye D, double ID, double identity? -j
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Post by jarvitronics on Jul 6, 2007 0:49:01 GMT -5
Here is a second face I found hidden in the larger face. I see a hook-nose, and the area above and below the mouth is bare skin. It's like a beak-nosed helmet over a face, with just the mouth area exposed. (This face has uber thin lips, just a line really.)
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Post by Mellow Yellow on Jul 6, 2007 1:02:14 GMT -5
Ok Jarv, you must be thinking with a different half of your brain than I am... because I seriously don't see that.
Maybe it's because I'm left handed....
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Post by mysteryboy on Jul 6, 2007 2:02:49 GMT -5
*Click* I think you are correct... Sorry, I was modifying and hit delete by accident, so here is my ramble again, with some added bits. I'll give you a little clue, though by no means should it be taken as The Truth. This will be a bit of a ramble. " If I don't promise you the answers would you go. Do you think that I know something you don't know?" - Publius It is Syd. A Greek-like statue (huge at that) of Barrett's bust was paraded through the streets of Barrett's home town of Cambridge as "The Division Bell" was released. Publius. I don't have a capture of it, but I remember thinking Ceasar when I saw it years ago. *The statue, that is. Like the Beatles, Pink Floyd knew that there are two things people will always love: Love itself and a good mystery. BTW. if any of you could do a fade of a 1966 Syd versus a 1990s period Syd fade I'd greatly appreciate it. One of the better songs that closes out side one (in traditional Lp/cassette format) Syd may have been Publius (or not), but what was the message? "Wearing The Inside Out" From morning to night I stayed out of sight Didn't recognize I'd become No more than alive I'd barely survive In a word...overrun Won't hear a sound From my mouth I've spent too long On the inside out My skin is cold To the human touch This bleeding heart's Not beating much I murmured a vow of silence and now I don't even hear when I think aloud Extinguished by light I turn on the night Wear its darkness with an empty smile I'm creeping back to life My nervous system all awry I'm wearing the inside out Look at him now He's paler somehow But he's coming round He's starting to choke It's been so long since he spoke Well he can have the words right from my mouth And with these words I can see Clear through the clouds that covered me Just give it time then speak my name Now we can hear ourselves again I'm holding out For the day When all the clouds Have blown away I'm with you now Can speak your name Now we can hear Ourselves again
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Post by CoconutFudge on Jul 6, 2007 3:04:03 GMT -5
When looking at those two... uhhh... things on the cover, I thought I saw two completely identical faces, as if it was one picture of the face just copied and rotated on the other side. When I look at the picture where jarvitronics combined them, I notice that, although they looked the same to me before and are remarkably similar, they are NOT identical. Not everything lines up properly, the burst of light in the 'mouth' is not the same for both, the coloring is not the same (one appears more worn than the other or something to that effect), and the sky is darker and cloudier on one of the sides. Upon inspecting the original picture again after noticing this, I notice that the scenery in the background is shorter on the right than on the left.
If I really wanted to milk it, I'd say the face on the right (brighter light, more worn out, shorter figures, and brighter sky ) would represent JPM while the face on the left and its surroundings would represent Faul.
...too much of a stretch?
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 6, 2007 16:01:30 GMT -5
All of your analysis and comments have been quite interesting. I think jarvitronics has done us a service with this image: In the original cover, with the two faces "in each others' face", we see an individual divided; a person at war with himslelf, with his inner-selves battling it out: right brain versus left brain, etc. He's talking to himself[/color]. But when the two halves become whole, the person is then speaking outwardly[/color]; speaking to you. Able to speak after being silent too long as the song tubularbell posted describes. When he's schizophrenic; at war with himself, he symbolically can't speak "from the heart", or "with a heart", but once unified, he is able to speak (and act) "with love". His eyes were targets. Humanity and humane-ness were the target. In the divide between the faces we see a church in the distance. Is it the "division bell"; the source of division in humanity? "Far away, across the field the tolling of the iron bell calls the faithful to their knees with its softly-spoken magic spell"Is the suggestion that what is imposed on a person exteriorly is, by definition, not "from the heart"? Can truth only come from within? Is humanity divided because it doesn't listen to what comes from the heart, but rather to the bells and whistles that come from the world without? These thoughts pass through my mind, but as I say, I'm not at all familiar with the album. (Guess I'll have to go out and buy it! ;D) I'll have more to say later.
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 6, 2007 16:56:44 GMT -5
Just some reminders: Apparently the mystery was solved by someone who then chose to be anonymous. Here are some of the clues left by Publius: Note: This is an abbreviated list from here:www.pinkfloyd-co.com/unt/unt_enigma/unt_enigma.html------ "AS SOME OF YOU HAVE SUSPECTED, "The Division Bell" is not like its predecessors. Although all great music is subject to multiple interpretations, in this case there is a central purpose and a designed solution. For the ingenious person (or group of persons) who recognizes this - and where this information points to - a unique prize has been secreted. How and Where? The Division Bell Listen again Look again As your thoughts will steer you Leading the blind while I stared out the steel in your eyes Lyrics, artwork and music will take you there FOR SEVERAL MONTHS, I have watched and found that you have speculated on one level on meanings. However, no one among you has yet discovered the beginnings of what has always been there and the unusual challenge that has been included. So now I have been given a task -- as your "guide" -- to begin pointing you in the right direction. LET ME BE CLEAR: For those of you willing to think through this perplexing and intricate problem, a singular prize awaits. But, the challenge is accompanied by a particularly complex solution. For those of you who choose to ignore or even ridicule this posting, it is your loss. It will be your own skepticism that precludes you from participating. If you choose to discuss your progress openly on this forum, I will be able to help steer you from time to time. CAREFULLY REVIEW my previous messages and this very posting for additional help and a place to begin. Best of luck. - Publius ------- Ask yourselves: how do these separate clues that you have been researching and evaluating now find renewed meaning within an overall, more unified theme? As an example, what does the following lyric suggest and how does this relate to your earlier findings: On the day the wall came down The Ship of Fools had finally run aground Promises lit up the night like paper doves in flight Lastly, let me leave you with a final question: Why would the Newspaper be crumpled? Continued luck to all in your search! -Publius ----- Because there'll be no safety in numbers When the Right One walks out of the door Your interpretations are very astute, but it's time to more explicitly review where this information could lead you. A long road lies ahead; begin to chart its course... There is much more to this enigma than just a castle and field in England! ----- And, while the ultimate prize still lies waiting to be unearthed, let me help by pointing out that there is another physical location that must be visited before final progress can be made. ----- Many months ago we embarked upon a magical journey. Although most of you displayed tru St at the start---only a ha Ndful remained faithful. So much has been revealed on th Is newsgroup as to the true nature of modern man (and Woman). Disappointments are heavy upon my h Eart. I believe one of you has discovered the truth---and has placed the answer here on this n Ewsgroup. I now call for an end to this eni Gma. It appears that only one has been fo Cused on my first message so long ago. Listen Read Think Communicate The disbelief on this forum forces me to reveal details in another manner that will be undisputed. This will be forthco Ming. The prize received will be unique as promised. It will be the decision of the winner to discuss it with the rest. IT IS FINISHED
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Post by JoJo on Jul 6, 2007 17:18:39 GMT -5
The letters you put in yellow are:
M A S N S I W D E I E I G I C
Was there any discussion of the meaning that you were able to discover? I suppose it could be an anagram, but that has so many possibilities.
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Post by jarvitronics on Jul 6, 2007 18:00:17 GMT -5
I just read the whole enchilada at the link WD posted. This thing has already been solved? What was the point? (To sell more records and concert tickets?) This Publius fellow sounded pretty ominous at the end, saying things like it being "too late" for certain people, etc.
Very strange.
-j
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jul 6, 2007 20:43:53 GMT -5
The letters you put in yellow are: M A S N S I W D E I E I G I C Was there any discussion of the meaning that you were able to discover? I suppose it could be an anagram, but that has so many possibilities. I had the same thought. If you delete the start of sentences, the capital letters are: SNIWEEGCM. ENIGM (A), SWINE, NEWS IS SWINE WINS WE IS SWINE
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