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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Jun 30, 2008 18:11:26 GMT -5
I watched HEAD (the Monkeys movie) last night for the first time. In addition to finding it very entertaining, I also noticed that this movie about a fake band was obliquely telling the story of a *fake* man in a *real* band. The more I watched, the more it became apparent to me that the Monkeys represent the Beatles and Mickey represents Paul. ESPECIALLY when the HEAD visuals began to overlap with the Rogers Waters video for "The Pros And Cons Of Hitchhiking", which happens to have several lyrical references to Yoko Ono and death/murder in the 3rd and 4th verses. The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking Lyrics "An angel on a Harley Pulls across to greet a fellow rolling stone Puts his bike up on it's stand Leans back and then extends A scarred and greasy hand...he said How ya doin bro?...where ya been?...where ya goin'? Then he takes your hand In some strange Californian handshake And breaks the bone Have a nice day A housewife from Encino Whose husband's on the golf course With his book of rules Breaks and makes a 'U' and idles back To take a second look at you You flex your rod Fish takes the hook Sweet vodka and tobacco in her breath Another number in your little black book These are the pros and cons of hitchhiking These are the pros and cons of hitchhiking Ooh babe, I must be dreaming I was standing on the leading edge The Eastern seaboard spread before my eyes "JUMP" SAYS YOKO ONO
"I'm too scared and too good looking" I cried
"GO ON", SHE SAYS
"WHY DON'T YOU GIVE IT A TRY?
WHY PROLONG THE AGONY, ALL MEN MUST DIE"Do you remember Dick Tracy? Do you remember Shane? Could you see him selling tickets Where the buzzard circles over the body on the plain DID YOU UNDERSTAND THE MUSIC, YOKO, OR WAS IT ALL IN VAIN?
THE BITCH SAID SOMETHING MYSTICAL "herrro"
SO I STEPPED BACK ON THE KERB AGAINThese are the pros and cons of hitchhiking These are the pros and cons of hitchhiking Oh babe, I must be dreaming again" Ok, back to the visual similarities. Both the Pros and Cons video and HEAD have several visual references to golf, which on the surface seems like nothing, but not when one considers the extremely odd, POV nature of the visuals used in BOTH. Observe: Pros and Cons golf @ 00:46 seconds www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6_-dmrUVwE&feature=relatedand HEAD golf @ 00:40 seconds www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNdtqzm-v-w&feature=relatedBoth also contain nearly identical (style wise) shots of people free-falling. In Head, it's Mickey. In the Pros and Cons video, it happens to coincide with the lyrics where Yoko is telling *someone* to JUMP, and that ALL MEN MUST DIE. Pros and Cons falling starts at 01:50, and coincides with Yoko's orders to JUMP. www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6_-dmrUVwE&feature=relatedWatch Mickey falling in HEAD here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdd5xI9l7Ns&feature=related Now, on top of all of that, let's not forget that Pink Floyd were recording "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" at Abbey Road, while the Beatles were recording Pepper. In addition, Floyd recorded Dark Side of the Moon at Abbey Road while Wings were in there. In fact, it's Henry McCulloch of Wings who's voice can be heard on Dark Side saying "I don't know, I was really drunk at the time." Summary: Waters was there during Pepper. Waters was there during Wings. HEAD is a movie about a group who pretended to be something they were not. Waters' video contains many of the same elements as HEAD. Waters' song alludes to Yoko Ono and death/murder. Some of the Monkeys appear in the video for ADITL Mike Nesmith appears in the MMT booklet, in a cartoon that features TWO Pauls. Whattaya think? Am I way off base here, or does this have legs? |
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Post by iameye on Jun 30, 2008 18:29:19 GMT -5
definitely some sea legs in there, but a lot to digest....I for one will look into it...  |
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Post by plastic paul on Jun 30, 2008 18:50:12 GMT -5
I like the look of this one, a well thought out post, I don't know all that much about the Monkees but the premise certainly sounds plausible.
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Post by mommybird on Jun 30, 2008 19:41:51 GMT -5
I agree. I found this to be a very interesting & thought out post. I remember seeing those lyrics before, so you're definitely not the 1st one to think of this.  |
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Post by JoJo on Jun 30, 2008 20:25:50 GMT -5
Which comic has two Pauls and Mike Nesmith? (all here if you wouldn't mind looking) www.jojoplace.org/Shoebox/MMT_Booklet/big/Obviously Roger doesn't think too highly of Yoko.. Perhaps he has his reasons, who knows. I'll concur with Iameye, a lot to digest, but you may have some "hits" here. |
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Jun 30, 2008 21:49:13 GMT -5
Which comic has two Pauls and Mike Nesmith? (all here if you wouldn't mind looking) www.jojoplace.org/Shoebox/MMT_Booklet/big/Obviously Roger doesn't think too highly of Yoko.. Perhaps he has his reasons, who knows. I'll concur with Iameye, a lot to digest, but you may have some "hits" here. Which comic has two Pauls and Mike Nesmith? (all here if you wouldn't mind looking) Well, it IS subject to interpretation, but here's the comic with Mike Nesmith and two Pauls. img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mikenandtwopaulseq7.jpg |
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Post by iameye on Jun 30, 2008 21:54:22 GMT -5
Which comic has two Pauls and Mike Nesmith? (all here if you wouldn't mind looking) www.jojoplace.org/Shoebox/MMT_Booklet/big/Obviously Roger doesn't think too highly of Yoko.. Perhaps he has his reasons, who knows. I'll concur with Iameye, a lot to digest, but you may have some "hits" here. Which comic has two Pauls and Mike Nesmith? (all here if you wouldn't mind looking) Well, it IS subject to interpretation, but here's the comic with Mike Nesmith and two Pauls. img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mikenandtwopaulseq7.jpgno, that's brian, imo. |
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Jun 30, 2008 22:03:53 GMT -5
Which one do you think is Brian, iameye? The one in the bubble, or the one not in the bubble? Did you notice that they're dressed exactly the same? |
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Post by iameye on Jun 30, 2008 22:16:50 GMT -5
no bubble  it's the characteristic part of the hair that sells it, and the suit..... |
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Jun 30, 2008 22:21:43 GMT -5
no bubble it's the characteristic part of the hair that sells it, and the suit..... Hmm. I'm really trying to see Brian in the bubble, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree and stick with the two Paul scenario. |
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Post by iameye on Jun 30, 2008 22:22:23 GMT -5
no bubble it's the characteristic part of the hair that sells it, and the suit..... Hmm. I'm really trying to see Brian in the bubble, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree and stick with the two Paul scenario. on the square, too, lol. no, brian is the runner. look again   |
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Jun 30, 2008 22:34:01 GMT -5
Hmm. I'm really trying to see Brian in the bubble, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree and stick with the two Paul scenario. on the square, too, lol. no, brian is the runner. look again I still think they're both Paul, and we'll just have to agree to disagree. However, what the hell is the *other* Paul doing in that egg-like bubble? And why is Mike Nesmith faceless? Could it be a reference to his mother having invented liquid paper, or is it more sinister? |
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Post by iameye on Jun 30, 2008 22:39:40 GMT -5
on the square, too, lol. no, brian is the runner. look again I still think they're both Paul, and we'll just have to agree to disagree. However, what the hell is the *other* Paul doing in that egg-like bubble? And why is Mike Nesmith faceless? Could it be a reference to his mother having invented liquid paper, or is it more sinister? it's a globe......i dunno about Nesmith though, funny gag if anything...... ACV said something brief about he Monkees at one point, I'll look into it. |
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Post by ramone on Jun 30, 2008 23:24:49 GMT -5
If memory serves, wasn't he comparing the beatles with the monkees?
Perhaps saying - 'look at what a show it really is'.
Wanted us to see things a little more from that perspective, maybe.
I could be totally wrong on that one, but that's the first thing that came to mind.
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Jul 1, 2008 7:48:52 GMT -5
If memory serves, wasn't he comparing the beatles with the monkees? Perhaps saying - 'look at what a show it really is'. Wanted us to see things a little more from that perspective, maybe. I could be totally wrong on that one, but that's the first thing that came to mind. Ramone, who is the "he" that you're talking about? Who are you saying is comparing the Beatles with the Monkeys? |
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Post by iameye on Jul 1, 2008 7:51:08 GMT -5
If memory serves, wasn't he comparing the beatles with the monkees? Perhaps saying - 'look at what a show it really is'. Wanted us to see things a little more from that perspective, maybe. I could be totally wrong on that one, but that's the first thing that came to mind. Ramone, who is the "he" that you're talking about? Who are you saying is comparing the Beatles with the Monkeys? we were talking about Apollo C Vermouth, former poster. |
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Jul 1, 2008 8:00:55 GMT -5
Ramone, who is the "he" that you're talking about? Who are you saying is comparing the Beatles with the Monkeys? we were talking about Apollo C Vermouth, former poster. Oh right - ACV. I'm still new here, but I've run across enough of his posts to understand that he had some insider knowledge (at minimum), or was in fact Neil Aspinall. Thanks for clarifying, iameye. |
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Post by B on Jul 1, 2008 8:57:58 GMT -5
I think Apollo had alluded to the fact that one of the posters at TKIN had the signature "monkee"
at the bottom of his posts. He was suggesting, I think, that the poster may have been one of them.
I have referenced "The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking" any number of times, pointing out the lyrics
you emphasized, Penny, as well as the references to Shane.
Shane was a "western movie", but it also is the name of the fellow from New Zealand who
recorded the "down under" version of "Saint Paul" that was the equivalalent of the Terry Knight version
in the US and England.
And there also was a Shane who was a brother (?) to Linda McCartney, so I was trying to
make the connections.
"The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking" seems to suggest that Shane was done wrong by someone,
possibly Yoko. There is also a Shane album where he is shown wearing a fireman's hat, but I
can't make sense of it, but it is a fireman connection.
I've never seen "Head", so I can't comment, but others here have before.
By the way, Roger Waters uses the "it was a dream" card in The Pros and Cons (etc.) to avoid any
legal problems where he sings of Yoko telling the person to jump, but the message implicitly conveyed
seems to be that Paul should get the ' f ' out of the way of the Billy Shears Beatles.
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Jul 1, 2008 13:23:25 GMT -5
I think Apollo had alluded to the fact that one of the posters at TKIN had the signature "monkee" at the bottom of his posts. He was suggesting, I think, that the poster may have been one of them. I have referenced "The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking" any number of times, pointing out the lyrics you emphasized, Penny, as well as the references to Shane. Shane was a "western movie", but it also is the name of the fellow from New Zealand who recorded the "down under" version of "Saint Paul" that was the equivalalent of the Terry Knight version in the US and England. And there also was a Shane who was a brother (?) to Linda McCartney, so I was trying to make the connections. "The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking" seems to suggest that Shane was done wrong by someone, possibly Yoko. There is also a Shane album where he is shown wearing a fireman's hat, but I can't make sense of it, but it is a fireman connection. I've never seen "Head", so I can't comment, but others here have before. By the way, Roger Waters uses the "it was a dream" card in The Pros and Cons (etc.) to avoid any legal problems where he sings of Yoko telling the person to jump, but the message implicitly conveyed seems to be that Paul should get the ' f ' out of the way of the Billy Shears Beatles. Holy Shane, (Letter B)atman! Unfortunately, I'm at work and can't give this the attention it deserves until tomorrow, but this Shane chap appears to be a goldmine of connections! www.sergent.com.au/shane.htmlShane's first outing in New Zealand music was when he became a member of the Pleazers in 1966 as a replacement for Bob Cooper in their line-up. He stayed with them until they broke up in June 1967, by which time he already had ideas of his own about setting up a band he wanted to call the Shane Group. He set off to Wellington along with his friend from the Pleazers, Gus Fenwick, to recruit new musicians for his group. He couldn't find the right people at the time and decided to put his idea on hold for a short time when he was offered the job of becoming front man for Auckland band Jamestown Union. Shane decided only to stay with them for a short while, leaving to have another attempt at forming the Shane Group. This time he got back together with Gus and took Arthur Young from Jamestown Union with him. He added Mike Wilson on guitar and Glen Absolum on drums, and with Gus on bass, his line-up was complete. They had a residency spot at the 1480 Village in Durham Lane in Auckland, but by 1968 Shane had decided to go it alone as a solo performer under the name Shane. The remnants of the Shane Group he left behind became the nucleus of the Apple by adding Bruce Sontgen as their vocalist. Before going truly solo, Shane convinced Eldred Stebbing of Zodiac Records to record him with a Bee Gees song called "The Town Of Tuxley Toymaker", backed with "Breaking My Heart" in 1967. It received good airplay in Auckland, which helped it make the local charts, but nationally it didn't get a look in. Over the summer months, the "C'mon" team went on a series of national tours, and by the time the next series of "C'mon" screened in 1969, Shane had been offered a record contract with HMV, which he was happy to have. The record companies had a lot of power with their artists around that time. HMV selected Harry Nilsson's "Cuddly Toy" with "Go Ask Your Man" on the reverse, as his first single and Shane wasn't overly happy with the choice, as the Monkees version had been around for more than a year. Again it was a top 3 hit in Auckland, but never made the national charts. They certainly hit the jackpot with their next pick. "Saint Paul" was an obscure Terry Knight song based on the "Paul McCartney is dead" rumours that were circulating at the time. "Saint Paul"/"Too Late For Years" was released in August and within three weeks it was at the number one spot on the national charts, a position it held for six weeks. Peter Dawkins was Shane's producer and as a result of this hit he got him back into the studio immediately to record enough tracks to release an album. The result was "Rainy Day Man" and it sold well for Shane. "Saint Paul" was also entered into the 1969 Loxene Gold Disc Awards and as expected had no trouble taking out the title of best local record of the year. The follow-up single in December was "Lady Samantha"/"The Drifter". "Lady Samantha" was a song written by a couple of unknowns at the time, Bernie Taupin and Elton John. Shane's version was given a very distinctive guitar track by Tom Thumb's Mike Farrell. The single also did well on the national charts, reaching number 3. Early in 1970, former Pleazers guitarist, Bruce "Phantom" Robinson became Shane's musical director. They began work on Shane's second album "A Natural Man", from which the title track was released as the next single with "Meet On The Ledge" on the reverse. "St Paul" was released overseas and started doing very well in Europe, especially Germany. So Shane and Bruce Robinson set off to do a tour of Germany. They left on a cruise ship and had a stopover in New York on the way. While they were in transit, Shane's next single "Get It Together"/"Tired Of Running" was released back home. Meanwhile, the Zonk single was released in the US, where it received favourable reviews. United Artists, whose label the single had been released on wanted to line up some gigs to support the single, but unfortunately Shane had now left New York and was on his way to Europe. In England, United Artists wanted to do the same thing, but Shane was committed to a two month tour of Germany and had to turn it down. After the tour Shane returned to London and signed with Red Bus Music as a songwriter. He also managed to record some tracks at Abbey Road Studios. Back in New Zealand, another single, "No Regrets"/"Song Inside Me", was released from his second album. Things were looking good for Shane, when unfortunately disaster struck. His fiancé was killed in a car accident and devastated, Shane returned to New Zealand. He was unable to cope with the grieving process, and turning to his music, he went into a long recording session and put down enough tracks for another album. It included most of the tracks he had written in London and also two songs, "I Didn't Get To Loving You" and "Sixteen Seasons" as dedications to his fiancé Jan. The "Sixteen Seasons" was a reference to the four years they had spent together. The album was called "Straight Straight Straight" and released in 1971. The only single to come from the album was "Burn Burn"/"John Hope". After this he headed back to Britain, where he spent most of the seventies, not achieving great success, but managing to remain a professional performer. In 1973 he recorded a fourth album called "Fire Exit" and this was released on the Family label. One single "Bad Weather"/"Leaving" was released from the album. Here's the album cover of FIRE EXIT.  So, this short retrospective of Shane's career has several items of potential interest to us: The Apple Zodiac Records Harry Nilsson The Monkeys Saint Paul Bernie Taupin and Elton John Abbey Road Studios Fiance killed in a CAR ACCIDENT not too long after recording Saint Paul. Album called FIRE Exit, and he appears on the cover in a FIRE helmet. And why were we looking at this retrospective to begin with? Because a video by Roger Waters conflated the movie SHANE with the Monkeys and a Yoko Ono influenced death. Somebody's going to have to carry the ball from here for a while though, because I have to get back to work. |
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Post by B on Jul 1, 2008 15:28:26 GMT -5
Thanks P(D)enny! You've laid it out quite well.
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Post by thisone on Jul 1, 2008 19:14:36 GMT -5
Hmm. I'm really trying to see Brian in the bubble, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree and stick with the two Paul scenario. on the square, too, lol. no, brian is the runner. look again I was always under the impression that that was a caricature of the MI5 tv pesenter David Frost. |
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Post by iameye on Jul 1, 2008 19:32:34 GMT -5
highly possible, also. Same mouth. The guy in the globe reminds me of Kissinger.
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Jul 1, 2008 22:42:04 GMT -5
highly possible, also. Same mouth. The guy in the globe reminds me of Kissinger. Wot??? Nobody looked into this Shane character while I was away? C'mon people, stay on task. And can you guys at least throw me the bone of agreeing that the two Pauls (or Kissinger and Brian, if you insist) are wearing the exact same suit? |
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Post by iameye on Jul 1, 2008 22:45:25 GMT -5
highly possible, also. Same mouth. The guy in the globe reminds me of Kissinger. Wot??? Nobody looked into this Shane character while I was away? C'mon people, stay on task. And can you guys at least throw me the bone of agreeing that the two Pauls (or Kissinger and Brian, if you insist) are wearing the exact same suit? no, hold on, kissinger is comming from the top of the globe, not the mccartny wings image...... as for shane, we have been there , extensively. search it. lazy, we are not, sir. |
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Post by plastic paul on Jul 2, 2008 18:09:16 GMT -5
I think it's Brian Epstein by way of association.
It looks like Norman Rossington, who played the Beatles' manager in A Hard Days Night, thus Brian Epstein.
Though man, David Frost what a shout!
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