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Post by timmyb52 on May 16, 2018 19:03:11 GMT -5
Jai Guru Deva, And that is the crux of our disagreement...the early church fathers have a totally different interpretation and belief of Christianity than what is taught today. The Christisnity taught and propagated by those early leaders and teachers of the church is almost unrecognizable to anyone who has truly researched and read about how Christianity was practiced and followed from the time of Christs crucifixtion to Eusebius. Modern dau christianity is IMHO...a watered down version of its former self that now solely exists to perpetuate fear porn over peace of mind. The early church never taught these doctrines in the same way as they are taught today...people like Darby with his "rapture" theory was never taught by the early church, nor by Christ and His disciples. Modern day Bible prophecy has been purposely misinterpreted for control,money and power through fear and obedience to a jealous and wrathful god whom Christ Himself rejected...that was the God of the pharisees and saducees...the very same high priests who had Christ crucified for preaching of a god of love,peace and forgiveness. Modern day biblical prophecy contradicts this IMHO. For God does not show favoritism...the rapture theory contradicts the character of God as one who does show favoritism. The rapture theory is the belief that God is a hypocrite...and a jealous and wrathful one at that who seems to be at odds with the concepts of long sufferring, understanding, forgiveness and love.
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iameye
Electric Arguments
Posts: 1,119
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Post by iameye on May 17, 2018 10:30:11 GMT -5
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on May 18, 2018 15:37:41 GMT -5
Types and Shadows Of The Rapture In The Bible
If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come back and receive you to Myself, so that where I am you may be also. –John 14:3
The Bible contains foreshadowing, which is different than prophecy or revelation. Foreshadowing does not reveal future truth, but hints at it. And is generally only seen and understood later. Jesus hints of the rapture in John 14:3, but does not “teach” of it. From our later viewpoint, and from what we now know, we can look back and see what he was hinting at.
In 1 Thes. 1:10, Paul made the first direct mention of the rapture, following up with more detail in 1 Thes. 4:16-17 and 1 Cor. 15:51-52. These letters were written about 20 years after Christ. The mystery of harpazo had not been given to the church until about 55AD by Paul in 1 Cor. 15. What Paul was describing to happen in the twinkling of an eye as a mystery suggest it was a concept never taught before, even by Jesus.
While Jesus gave us a few hints about the rapture, He never taught openly about it, and I don’t think we would have seen His hints if we did not already know about the rapture from Paul’s teaching. One of the Lord’s hints was in the reference to the days of Noah and Lot in Luke 17:26-29. After speaking of the days of Lot where the faithful were preserved through the judgement, He then brought up the days of Lot where the judgement could not come until Lot was first taken away from the time and place of its occurrence (Gen. 19:15-22). In these two examples He was saying that some (Israel) would be preserved through the end times judgements while others (the Church) would be removed from the time and place before the time of trial begins.
Another hint came in John 11:25-26. Speaking of the last days, Jesus to told Martha that believers who die will live again and those who are alive will never die. In other words there would be one generation of believers who would not die, but would go straight from this life into the next one. In hindsight, we can tell He was speaking of the rapture because those who survive the end times judgements and live on into the Millennial Kingdom will still be in their natural states and will eventually die. Only those taken in the rapture will never die.
Once more, if you did not already know about the rapture from Paul’s teaching you probably would not see these hints. After Paul revealed the rapture, Jesus confirmed it in His letter to the Church in Philadelphia, saying, “Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth” (Rev. 3:10). The Greek word translated from in this verse means we will be kept out of the place, time, or cause of the hour of trial.
Jesus never gave a clear teaching of the rapture, but hinted at it. It was given to Paul to present the doctrine of the rapture of the Church on earth for the first time. He did so in 1 Cor. 15:51-53 and 1 Thes. 4:16-17. Paul is stating it is a mystery revealed to Him by Christ. If it is not a new revelation to Paul, he is lying and not Holy Spirit lead. Plus it would be much more likely that there are no references to the rapture since the Body of Christ was not yet created and the rapture is a promise to the Church.
Again, the rapture was not specifically introduced until it was revealed to Paul. However, God knew how things would unfold from the beginning, and there were definitely hints by Jesus in the Gospels (John 14:1-4 for one example if read literally can only refer to the rapture), but these verses could not have been correctly understood until the time was right later on. In fact, there were hints and types of the Rapture as early as Genesis 5 with Enoch, then later with Elijah and Lot. Enoch, Elijah, Lot, and Noah
Enoch and Elijah had lived righteously with God, and then they were taken up to heaven. Their ascension was a foreshadow of the Rapture of the Chruch. Enoch taken up to heaven:
And after he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked with god 300 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether Enoch lived 365 years. Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away. –Gen. 5:22—24)
Elijah went up in a whirlwind:
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind –2 Kings 2:11 The stories of Lot fleeing from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and Noah sequestered away on the ark while the whole earth was under a deluge are examples of how God delivers the righteous from judgment.
Lot escapes the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah:
By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. But Lot’s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt. –Gen. 19:23-26 Noah, a righteous man, escaped worldwide flood:
Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God. –Gen. 6:9
And Noah and his sons and his wife and sons’ wives entered the ark to escape the waters of the flood. –Gen. 7:7
Elijah had a confrontation with King Ahab. Jezebel imported hundreds of Baal teachers, and perverted worship of Yahweh. Portrayed as a bull, Baal was a storm god with power over fertility of land. Ahab built a Baal temple and altar in Samaria, and set up Asherah poles. Elijah had called out the sin of the nation of Israel and he declared there would be no rain on the land until Elijah himself called for it. He had been sent by God to confront Ahab, the monarch over Israel at the time. Elijah proclaimed to Ahab that a drought would come over Israel unless Elijah commanded so. After his confrontations with Ahab, Elijah was commanded by God to travel to Kerith Ravine in order to avoid the coming drought. There he drank from the brook and was fed by ravens.
God provides a place of refuge for Elijah from the drought: 1 Kings 17:1-6
Now Elijah the Tishbite, from Tishbe in Gilead, said to Ahab, "As the Lord, the God of Israel, lives, whom I serve, there will be neither dew nor rain in the next few years except at my word."
Then the word of the Lord came to Elijah, "Leave hear, turn eastward and hid in the Kerith Ravine, east of the Jordan. You will drink from the brook, and I have ordered the ravens to feed you there."
So he did what the Lord had told him. He went to the Kerith Ravine, east of the Jordan, and stayed there. The ravens brought him bread and meat in the morning and bread and meat in the evening, and he drank from the brook.
The story of Elijah being fed by ravens is another foreshadowing of the Rapture of the Church (or even the Jews escaping to Petra during the Great Tribulation).
God separates Elijah, a righteous man, from the wicked in Israel by providing a safe place for him (Kerith Ravine). Thereby the Lord offered him protection from judgment (drought in Israel).
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on May 18, 2018 15:38:46 GMT -5
The Christ & Wedding Analogy In The BibleThroughout the Old Testament, Israel is representative of the Wife of Jehovah. But Israel was unfaithful to God because she turned to other gods (idolatry), so God essentially divorced her. This is what the God meant when he said, "You are not my people, and I am not your God" in Hosea 1:9. (Jer. 3:8, Jer. 3:14-20, Isa. 54:1) Now during the Tribulation the Lord will initiate restoration of his Husband and Wife relationship with Israel and by the start of the Millennium, their relationship will be fully restored. (Hos. 2:16, Hos. 2:19-20) But at the point where Jehovah God divorced Israel, this is where Yeshua Ha-Mashiach and the Church come into the picture... (Lev. 21:14) The story of a Hebrew wedding is being played out with Jesus and his Bride (the Church). Already, a marriage covenant has been made when Jesus paid the purchase price the cross. (Acts 20:28, 1 Cor. 6:19-20, Eph. 5:25-27) Then Jesus returned back to his Father’s house when he ascended up into heaven and he's been preparing his Bridal Chambers for his Bride (Church). (John 6:62, John 14:2, Acts 1:9-11) The next thing (which is about to happen) is that Jesus will fetch his Bride, like a bridegroom coming for his bride. (John 14:3, 1 Thes. 4:13-18) In the Jewish wedding, the bride then undergoes a cleansing ritual prior to the wedding ceremony. When it comes to the believers in Christ, we have been baptized and washed of our sins with the blood of Jesus Christ, so that is how we have been cleansed. We will also receive glorified bodies. (Eph. 5:25-27, 1 Cor. 3:12-15, Rev. 19:7-8) The next thing in a Jewish wedding is the wedding ceremony and consummation which is where in the privacy of the bridal chamber the bride and groom consummate the marriage. (John:14:2-3) The Wedding Ceremony is a private ceremony where few are invited. For us, it means it just Jesus and his Bride. Our final consummation is receiving full restoration in Christ; we have been purified with the blood of Christ, we have glorified bodies, and we return to Heaven to be with the Lamb of God. (Eph. 1:9-14, Rev. 19:7) Then we have the marriage feast which can last up to 7 days, it is a celebratory marriage feast to which many are invited. The other people would include friends of the bridegroom (disciples of Jesus), and attendants of the bride (which I'm guessing will be angels). This would be the Marriage Supper of the Lamb which will occur in heaven while the seven year Tribulation is happening on earth. (Mat. 22:1-14, Mat 25:1-13, Luke 12:36) During Jacob’s Trouble and the Great Tribulation the wife of Jehovah is being purified on earth in preparation for her restoration during the Millennial Kingdom to follow. (Micah) After the Wedding Supper of the Lamb (where we will be wed to Christ), we will come down with Jesus in the clouds and he will set up his thousand year reign and the Millennium will begin. (Rev. 3:10, Rev. 19:14) At the conclusion of the Millennium, Satan will be cast into the lake of fire, there will be new Heavens and a new Earth, and we will see the New Jerusalem as a bride adorned for her husband. (Isa. 62:1, Rev. 20:1-3, Rev. 20: 7-20, Rev. 21:2, Rev. 21:9-10, Rev. 21:22) Biblical History - The Big Picture Timeline i.pinimg.com/originals/f9/d7/7d/f9d77d33fae57b6e969fa14d49396605.jpg
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on May 18, 2018 15:41:21 GMT -5
This is a great article written for the possibility of a Pentecost Rapture. The Church age began at Pentecost, the age of grace could also possibly end on Pentecost. The story of Ruth and Boaz happened around harvest. One taken and one left grinding represents a time of harvest. One taken one left in the field represents a time of harvest. No one can know the very date of the Rapture because of so many conflicting calendars; (Torah Calendar, Enoch Calendar and so many others), but the Lord gave us types and shadows of things to come in the pages of the Bible. Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. SUPPORT FOR A SPRING 2018 PENTECOST RAPTURE www.heavenlysign2017.org/pentecost-rapture-data-file.html
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on May 18, 2018 16:47:04 GMT -5
Jai Guru Deva, And that is the crux of our disagreement...the early church fathers have a totally different interpretation and belief of Christianity than what is taught today. The Christisnity taught and propagated by those early leaders and teachers of the church is almost unrecognizable to anyone who has truly researched and read about how Christianity was practiced and followed from the time of Christs crucifixtion to Eusebius. Modern dau christianity is IMHO...a watered down version of its former self that now solely exists to perpetuate fear porn over peace of mind. The early church never taught these doctrines in the same way as they are taught today...people like Darby with his "rapture" theory was never taught by the early church, nor by Christ and His disciples. Modern day Bible prophecy has been purposely misinterpreted for control,money and power through fear and obedience to a jealous and wrathful god whom Christ Himself rejected...that was the God of the pharisees and saducees...the very same high priests who had Christ crucified for preaching of a god of love,peace and forgiveness. Modern day biblical prophecy contradicts this IMHO. For God does not show favoritism...the rapture theory contradicts the character of God as one who does show favoritism. The rapture theory is the belief that God is a hypocrite...and a jealous and wrathful one at that who seems to be at odds with the concepts of long sufferring, understanding, forgiveness and love. I don't deny televangelists and preachers have used Bible prophecy for their own gain; the latest example is Jim Bakker who is selling cabins in the Ozarks to survive the Apocalypse... The Apostle Paul was first shown the mystery of the Rapture which he writes about in the New Testament. In Scripture, God clearly says those who truly believe in Him are not appointed to wrath which is where the rapture comes in. (1 Thess 1:10, 1 Thess. 5:9, Rom. 5:9,) In Revelation it talks about how those who obeyed the message of Jesus Christ and who have endured, they will escape the hour of trial (or a time of testing) to come upon the whole inhabited world. In other words, followers of Christ will not have to go through the Great Tribulation, but those who are unbelievers and who have not followed Christ will be judged. (Rev. 3:10, 1 John 5:10, Rom. 2:5, John 3:18) God's wrath is for the disobedient-- those living in sin and rebellion. (Eph. 5:6, Col 3:5-6) God has shown favor with many people such as Abraham, Moses, Noah, Joseph, King David, and Jesus's mother Mary, but He did not love these people anymore than anyone else He ever created. Anyone who does the will of the Father is His Favorite. But the Bible is also clear that not everyone who identifies themselves as a Christian will escape the wrath to come--you have to be a follower of Jesus Christ. The Laodicean church (Rev. 3:14-20) will stay behind because of they are lukewarm and backslidden, while the Philadelphia church will be taken because they have kept God's word and patiently endured (Rev. 3:7-13). The bottom line is salvation is for anyone, regardless of who they are or what they have done. You have to be a born again believer and love God with your whole heart; love Him more than satisfying your own selfish desires and enraptured with the things of this world.
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Post by timmyb52 on May 18, 2018 21:56:01 GMT -5
Here is one thing modern Christianity misconstrues...it conflates what Jesus says directly to the Jews and His disciples as being directed to people living today in the modern world. Jesus was talking to them...not us...in his day and age.Those were prophetic messages aimed at them in order to hopefully avoid the destruction of the Jewish people and Isreal that would come after Christs crucifixtion and rejection with the uprising against Rome...which as recorded by Josephus was the 7 year tribulation of woe prophesied by Christ! He warned them openly and plainly what would happen...and the jewish people along with its leadership failed to listen to his words and warnings.Which Josephus as commander of Isreals armies witnessed and recorded after his capture by the Romans. Modern day Christianity ignores this history so that it can continue to propagate false hope and fear for control...its that simple! By the way Jai...I was a hardcore Baptist Christian for a long time who also believed in the rapture until I started researching into the early church and its history and found that the many things I was taught by modern Christian leaders was lies. For the past 22 years I am still a Christian...a Gnostic Christian whose beliefs and interpretation of scripture falls in line with the early church and not modern day beliefs.
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Post by timmyb52 on May 19, 2018 20:37:38 GMT -5
One of the most little known aspects of modern day Christianity is the fact that many of the false beliefs and dogmas of The Church today was created by The Catholic Church through its destruction and theft of sacred early Christian and Gnostic Christian documents so they could create their watered down new Christianity mixed with paganism. This was done through the practice of genocide upon other Christians and the burning and banning of other sacred scriptures that those other groups held as sacred. These other scriptures threatened the dogmatic canon that the Catholic Church under Roman control and influence wished to create in order to more easily control the masses and cement its own authority and power. Many of the lies and falsehoods created in the name of Christianity and Jesus Christ under the Roman Catholic Church are still followed and preached to this day by modern day Christians who lack a proper understanding of their own religious history. Mysteries and Dark Conspiracies of the Vatican’s Forbidden Archives stillnessinthestorm.com/2018/05/mysteries-and-dark-conspiracies-of-the-vaticans-forbidden-archives/
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Aug 23, 2018 20:13:41 GMT -5
Here are a couple of studies that a friend of mine named Kevin did on Preterism. Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets some or all prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. edit by B
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Jan 8, 2019 20:44:08 GMT -5
FREQUENCY RAPTURE. DREAMS FROM FATHER.
MelanieGabrielle444
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Post by lucy on Jan 8, 2019 22:30:44 GMT -5
lol dailygalaxy.com/2019/01/odd-signals-inside-story-of-chinas-search-for-alien-life/Due to the limitations of current radio technology, Vakoch observed, any radio signals from alien civilizations detected by the dish would have to be strong and deliberately sent with contact in mind, rather than randomly fired out from radio or TV equivalents. “We’d only be able to find the sort of signals that FAST will be looking for: narrow band signals, something that would have a lot of energy put into a carrier,” he said. “An interstellar beacon saying: We are here.”
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Post by B on Jan 16, 2019 17:01:41 GMT -5
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Post by timmyb52 on Mar 12, 2019 1:42:06 GMT -5
As I was reading Perdurabo:The Life of Aliester Crowley (pages 11-12),I was blown away by the fact that Aliester Crowleys father (Edward Crowley) was a prominent and very high ranking member of John Nelson Darbys sect of Christian extremist fundamentalists called the Plymouth Brethren or Darbyists...the same ones who came up with and created The Rapture Theory or pretribulationism! WOW...my mind is blown!
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Post by IWILL on Mar 12, 2019 8:54:21 GMT -5
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Post by B on Mar 12, 2019 10:29:51 GMT -5
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Post by timmyb52 on Mar 12, 2019 17:06:09 GMT -5
The same has been going on with me this month...low energy with spurts of dizziness and feeling nausea. But with this has been a lot of synchronicity.
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Mar 12, 2019 17:35:37 GMT -5
As I was reading Perdurabo:The Life of Aliester Crowley (pages 11-12),I was blown away by the fact that Aliester Crowleys father (Edward Crowley) was a prominent and very high ranking member of John Nelson Darbys sect of Christian extremist fundamentalists called the Plymouth Brethren or Darbyists...the same ones who came up with and created The Rapture Theory or pretribulationism! WOW...my mind is blown! Tim - the "harpazo", "catching away", "rapture", whatever you want to call it was a mystery which was revealed to Paul. Early church leaders believed and taught a pre-tribulation rapture (even if the word "rapture" was not a part of their vernacular. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 51
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.~ ~ ~ The idea is perfectly Biblical. Before the ascension of Christ, Jesus told his Disciples that He had to go and prepare a place for His believers, then He would come back for them, and that they would not be subject to wrath. We read about this in John 14:3, 1 Thess. 5:9 and Rev. 3:10. It also follows the anecdote of a Jewish wedding. The father and bridegroom would go to the house of the father of the bride. The bridegroom's father would pay a purchase price. Then there would be a betrothal period, and the father and bridegroom would go back home where the bridegroom would build an chamber or extension onto his father's house. About a year later, the father would tell his son to go get his bride, and the bridegroom would go over to the house of the father of the bride and get her. Then the wedding would take place, the bridegroom and bride would go into the chamber and consummate the marriage, and then there would be a wedding feast lasting up to seven days. All of this falls in line Biblical teaching, for Jesus serves as the bridegroom and the Church serves as the bride. The rapture is like unto the bridegroom coming to get his bride and taking her back to his father's house for the wedding. It takes place just before seven year tribulation period.
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Post by B on Mar 12, 2019 18:55:07 GMT -5
One day, you'll find that I have gone (already happened)"...Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight..., but now is my kingdom not from hence." The magical mystery tour is coming to take you away The magical mystery tour is dying to take you away Dying to take you away, take you today
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Post by beatlas231 on Mar 13, 2019 3:18:25 GMT -5
Yea we’re all going to die the world is doomed the Dinosaurs are coming to take their jobs back
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Post by lucy on Mar 13, 2019 7:06:44 GMT -5
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Post by B on Mar 13, 2019 9:38:21 GMT -5
-----------The concept arose -----------------------------------------Sol Justitiae
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Post by lucy on Mar 13, 2019 11:41:05 GMT -5
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Post by timmyb52 on Mar 13, 2019 23:35:01 GMT -5
As I was reading Perdurabo:The Life of Aliester Crowley (pages 11-12),I was blown away by the fact that Aliester Crowleys father (Edward Crowley) was a prominent and very high ranking member of John Nelson Darbys sect of Christian extremist fundamentalists called the Plymouth Brethren or Darbyists...the same ones who came up with and created The Rapture Theory or pretribulationism! WOW...my mind is blown! Tim - the "harpazo", "catching away", "rapture", whatever you want to call it was a mystery which was revealed to Paul. Early church leaders believed and taught a pre-tribulation rapture (even if the word "rapture" was not a part of their vernacular. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 51
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.~ ~ ~ The idea is perfectly Biblical. Before the ascension of Christ, Jesus told his Disciples that He had to go and prepare a place for His believers, then He would come back for them, and that they would not be subject to wrath. We read about this in John 14:3, 1 Thess. 5:9 and Rev. 3:10. It also follows the anecdote of a Jewish wedding. The father and bridegroom would go to the house of the father of the bride. The bridegroom's father would pay a purchase price. Then there would be a betrothal period, and the father and bridegroom would go back home where the bridegroom would build an chamber or extension onto his father's house. About a year later, the father would tell his son to go get his bride, and the bridegroom would go over to the house of the father of the bride and get her. Then the wedding would take place, the bridegroom and bride would go into the chamber and consummate the marriage, and then there would be a wedding feast lasting up to seven days. All of this falls in line Biblical teaching, for Jesus serves as the bridegroom and the Church serves as the bride. The rapture is like unto the bridegroom coming to get his bride and taking her back to his father's house for the wedding. It takes place just before seven year tribulation period. The Early Church Fathers taught and believed in Millennialism...not Pretribulationalism. Pretribulationalism was a concept unheard of before John Nelson Darby got it from a woman who claimed to be channelling an angel! That woman made the unheard of claim that Christ could come back at any time and take the true Church of The Plymouth Brethren to heaven. Notice here...it was claimed only those of The Plymouth Brethren would go to heaven with Jesus at His return...not Catholics or other Christian groups... because The Plymouth Brethren saw all of them as sinners. This claim made Darby famous... with The Plymouth Brethren afterwards being known as Darbyists. It was so popular that other Christian groups and pastors adopted it and propagated it as biblical fact. The Early Church believed Christ would come back to establish His Millennial kingdom of 1,000 years on Earth and lock Satan away until the 1,000 years were over ...and that the believers in Jesus would be changed into their higher Christ bodies to serve as rulers and judges on His behalf during His reign on Earth...not in Heaven! Do you really think that Aliester Crowley's father being a high ranking member of Darbys cult is really just a coincidence?
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Post by lucy on Mar 14, 2019 6:50:37 GMT -5
Yea we’re all going to die the world is doomed the Dinosaurs are coming to take their jobs back Egg-zactly! lol
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Post by lucy on Mar 14, 2019 6:53:09 GMT -5
One day, you'll find that I have gone (already happened) "...Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight..., but now is my kingdom not from hence." The magical mystery tour is coming to take you away The magical mystery tour is dying to take you away Dying to take you away, take you today
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