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Post by kvo on Jan 4, 2022 18:24:05 GMT -5
But what about our main Beatlemania performing Paul (by now, you know the one I mean)? His un-retouched face was JoJo's avatar. It is the head shot where he is holding a cigarette, though that is most of his photos. Do you (or does anyone here) see him again after the August 1966 Memphis interview? Specifically, the one done in the dressing room where we see only the four band members and the interviewer. Because that is the last time I spotted that guy. Ever. But I am still looking....He looks different in the Memphis interview than in JoJo's avatar, but I think it is just another weird bowling ball wig. They seem to have put big false eyelashes on him in Memphis and loaded him up with layers of pan cake make-up. Think they were trying to disguise what these men actually looked like? Being facetious here. Of course they were. I think Memphis is a different one. I don't think the "main one" ever performed in the US during Beatlemania. And, yes, absolutely, the wigs/haircuts were to help disguise them. Also, your frowny early one is seen in a convertible (with "the other Beatles") in I think '63 Italy. They've got hoards of people running up to the car and "Paul" is scowling. You're not the first to tell me that I got the Memphis Paul wrong. If I do, I blame it on that blamed nose. In the Memphis interview, it looks correct for the main Beatlemania Paul, even looks cocked to the right (and small). And while I see heavy make-up on that Paul, I don't see evidence of eye bags or masking. So I thought I had him pegged correctly, but people seem to disagree with me. I will reconsider. He does, after all deport himself as more mature than our main Beatlemania dude (and as though he is older than 24), but he mentions that he is behaving in a more serious manner as the questions he is being posed with (the comments on Christianity), were more serious. I don't know why, but I have the sneaking suspicion that one or more of the Johns, Pauls, Georges, and Ringos were Americans. And with you mentioning that you don't believe the main Beatlemania Paul ever performed in the U.S., my hunch just got a little stronger. There is a scene in the first U.S. Visit Documentary where one Paul is exiting the Peppermint Lounge (though I believe another stayed behind and partied the night away). While he is walking out, he displays an uncanny ability to mimic different accents. That has always stuck in my mind. That and Maureen Cleave describing whatever Paul she interviewed as "a great mimic". And why not suspect that Americans were used at some point? Remember Al Capp's curious comment to the ridiculous John at the Montreal bed-in? "At least the other three fellas are English". I've always wondered what Capp knew... And yes, that early Paul sure did like to scowl. The reason I am so focused on him is mainly because he looks so different from all other Pauls. Like you said, he scowls (whereas the rest always flash their gleeming teeth at the camera), he is not cute or doe-eyed, and he looks older than the given 1942 birth year. I am wondering whether his position with the Beatles became mainly that of a handler/controller at some point.
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Post by ekauqodielak on Jan 5, 2022 4:21:04 GMT -5
I think Memphis is a different one. I don't think the "main one" ever performed in the US during Beatlemania. And, yes, absolutely, the wigs/haircuts were to help disguise them. Also, your frowny early one is seen in a convertible (with "the other Beatles") in I think '63 Italy. They've got hoards of people running up to the car and "Paul" is scowling. You're not the first to tell me that I got the Memphis Paul wrong. If I do, I blame it on that blamed nose. In the Memphis interview, it looks correct for the main Beatlemania Paul, even looks cocked to the right (and small). And while I see heavy make-up on that Paul, I don't see evidence of eye bags or masking. So I thought I had him pegged correctly, but people seem to disagree with me. I will reconsider. He does, after all deport himself as more mature than our main Beatlemania dude (and as though he is older than 24), but he mentions that he is behaving in a more serious manner as the questions he is being posed with (the comments on Christianity), were more serious. I don't know why, but I have the sneaking suspicion that one or more of the Johns, Pauls, Georges, and Ringos were Americans. And with you mentioning that you don't believe the main Beatlemania Paul ever performed in the U.S., my hunch just got a little stronger. There is a scene in the first U.S. Visit Documentary where one Paul is exiting the Peppermint Lounge (though I believe another stayed behind and partied the night away). While he is walking out, he displays an uncanny ability to mimic different accents. That has always stuck in my mind. That and Maureen Cleave describing whatever Paul she interviewed as "a great mimic". And why not suspect that Americans were used at some point? Remember Al Capp's curious comment to the ridiculous John at the Montreal bed-in? "At least the other three fellas are English". I've always wondered what Capp knew... And yes, that early Paul sure did like to scowl. The reason I am so focused on him is mainly because he looks so different from all other Pauls. Like you said, he scowls (whereas the rest always flash their gleeming teeth at the camera), he is not cute or doe-eyed, and he looks older than the given 1942 birth year. I am wondering whether his position with the Beatles became mainly that of a handler/controller at some point. I suspect the non-Brit/non-German(/non-Russian? Eastern bloc, anyway) Beatles were more likely Canadian than American, for practical reasons. Yes, I think someone laid out a case for that John being Irish, if I'm not mistaken. I think there was absolutely a Paul, possibly 'the original', if such a man existed, who became the behind the scenes force and possibly did write a bulk of material, maybe recorded as well, though, I'm less convinced on that point. However, I think he's the small, misshapen one seen in Wales '62 and with the saw in the woods, around the same time. He never changed his haircut. There is a photo of him in the recording studio with another Paul (not sure it's Billy, looks more like the mouthbreathing dopey one) and the members of Wings in the 70s. He's also seen in I think '66 with Eppy and the others in what I believe is John's living room, though I could be getting the location wrong. Again, his energy is bleak, petulant and detached from everyone else in the room. For me, it was Memphis Paul's voice that first identified him as Other. I've seen a few clips of that Paul performing, but he seemed to be a primarily touring Paul, leaving behind little evidence of his existence outside of that presser. Compare his neck length, chin and lips with the one who was the Beatlemania Paul that most picture when they think of young Paul.
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Post by joseph on Jan 5, 2022 8:37:40 GMT -5
The Memphis interview is Faul in prosthetic make up. His voice is just the same one I hear in the 70s and 80s.
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Post by kvo on Jan 5, 2022 15:23:30 GMT -5
You're not the first to tell me that I got the Memphis Paul wrong. If I do, I blame it on that blamed nose. In the Memphis interview, it looks correct for the main Beatlemania Paul, even looks cocked to the right (and small). And while I see heavy make-up on that Paul, I don't see evidence of eye bags or masking. So I thought I had him pegged correctly, but people seem to disagree with me. I will reconsider. He does, after all deport himself as more mature than our main Beatlemania dude (and as though he is older than 24), but he mentions that he is behaving in a more serious manner as the questions he is being posed with (the comments on Christianity), were more serious. I don't know why, but I have the sneaking suspicion that one or more of the Johns, Pauls, Georges, and Ringos were Americans. And with you mentioning that you don't believe the main Beatlemania Paul ever performed in the U.S., my hunch just got a little stronger. There is a scene in the first U.S. Visit Documentary where one Paul is exiting the Peppermint Lounge (though I believe another stayed behind and partied the night away). While he is walking out, he displays an uncanny ability to mimic different accents. That has always stuck in my mind. That and Maureen Cleave describing whatever Paul she interviewed as "a great mimic". And why not suspect that Americans were used at some point? Remember Al Capp's curious comment to the ridiculous John at the Montreal bed-in? "At least the other three fellas are English". I've always wondered what Capp knew... And yes, that early Paul sure did like to scowl. The reason I am so focused on him is mainly because he looks so different from all other Pauls. Like you said, he scowls (whereas the rest always flash their gleeming teeth at the camera), he is not cute or doe-eyed, and he looks older than the given 1942 birth year. I am wondering whether his position with the Beatles became mainly that of a handler/controller at some point. I suspect the non-Brit/non-German(/non-Russian? Eastern bloc, anyway) Beatles were more likely Canadian than American, for practical reasons. Yes, I think someone laid out a case for that John being Irish, if I'm not mistaken. I think there was absolutely a Paul, possibly 'the original', if such a man existed, who became the behind the scenes force and possibly did write a bulk of material, maybe recorded as well, though, I'm less convinced on that point. However, I think he's the small, misshapen one seen in Wales '62 and with the saw in the woods, around the same time. He never changed his haircut. There is a photo of him in the recording studio with another Paul (not sure it's Billy, looks more like the mouthbreathing dopey one) and the members of Wings in the 70s. He's also seen in I think '66 with Eppy and the others in what I believe is John's living room, though I could be getting the location wrong. Again, his energy is bleak, petulant and detached from everyone else in the room. For me, it was Memphis Paul's voice that first identified him as Other. I've seen a few clips of that Paul performing, but he seemed to be a primarily touring Paul, leaving behind little evidence of his existence outside of that presser. Compare his neck length, chin and lips with the one who was the Beatlemania Paul that most picture when they think of young Paul. Okay, in trying to match up these guys, what about matching the Memphis interview Paul (there were two, I am referring to the one in the dressing room where there was a single interviewer), with the Paul who is exiting the Peppermint Lounge doing his voice mimics? Peppermint Lounge Paul has his back to the camera most of the time but turns to peer at the camera twice. I froze the face both times. I see a strong similarity between the two men with respect to the shape of the eyelids, overall facial shape, and distance between the top of the eye and the brows. The noses appear a bit different, though. And could the Paul chopping wood be matched with any of the Pauls who are all dressed alike and appear in the Paperback Writer photo sessions?
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Post by kvo on Jan 5, 2022 15:26:40 GMT -5
I suspect the non-Brit/non-German(/non-Russian? Eastern bloc, anyway) Beatles were more likely Canadian than American, for practical reasons. Yes, I think someone laid out a case for that John being Irish, if I'm not mistaken. I think there was absolutely a Paul, possibly 'the original', if such a man existed, who became the behind the scenes force and possibly did write a bulk of material, maybe recorded as well, though, I'm less convinced on that point. However, I think he's the small, misshapen one seen in Wales '62 and with the saw in the woods, around the same time. He never changed his haircut. There is a photo of him in the recording studio with another Paul (not sure it's Billy, looks more like the mouthbreathing dopey one) and the members of Wings in the 70s. He's also seen in I think '66 with Eppy and the others in what I believe is John's living room, though I could be getting the location wrong. Again, his energy is bleak, petulant and detached from everyone else in the room. For me, it was Memphis Paul's voice that first identified him as Other. I've seen a few clips of that Paul performing, but he seemed to be a primarily touring Paul, leaving behind little evidence of his existence outside of that presser. Compare his neck length, chin and lips with the one who was the Beatlemania Paul that most picture when they think of young Paul. Okay, in trying to match up these guys, what about matching the Memphis interview Paul (there were two, I am referring to the one in the dressing room where there was a single interviewer), with the Paul who is exiting the Peppermint Lounge doing his voice mimics? Peppermint Lounge Paul has his back to the camera most of the time but turns to peer at the camera twice. I froze the face both times. I see a strong similarity between the two men with respect to the shape of the eyelids (though this was not apparent to me until I took screen shots), overall facial shape, and distance between the top of the eye and the brows. The noses appear a bit different, though. And could the Paul chopping wood be matched with any of the Pauls who are all dressed alike and appear in the Paperback Writer photo sessions?
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Post by ekauqodielak on Jan 5, 2022 17:03:47 GMT -5
I suspect the non-Brit/non-German(/non-Russian? Eastern bloc, anyway) Beatles were more likely Canadian than American, for practical reasons. Yes, I think someone laid out a case for that John being Irish, if I'm not mistaken. I think there was absolutely a Paul, possibly 'the original', if such a man existed, who became the behind the scenes force and possibly did write a bulk of material, maybe recorded as well, though, I'm less convinced on that point. However, I think he's the small, misshapen one seen in Wales '62 and with the saw in the woods, around the same time. He never changed his haircut. There is a photo of him in the recording studio with another Paul (not sure it's Billy, looks more like the mouthbreathing dopey one) and the members of Wings in the 70s. He's also seen in I think '66 with Eppy and the others in what I believe is John's living room, though I could be getting the location wrong. Again, his energy is bleak, petulant and detached from everyone else in the room. For me, it was Memphis Paul's voice that first identified him as Other. I've seen a few clips of that Paul performing, but he seemed to be a primarily touring Paul, leaving behind little evidence of his existence outside of that presser. Compare his neck length, chin and lips with the one who was the Beatlemania Paul that most picture when they think of young Paul. Okay, in trying to match up these guys, what about matching the Memphis interview Paul (there were two, I am referring to the one in the dressing room where there was a single interviewer), with the Paul who is exiting the Peppermint Lounge doing his voice mimics? Peppermint Lounge Paul has his back to the camera most of the time but turns to peer at the camera twice. I froze the face both times. I see a strong similarity between the two men with respect to the shape of the eyelids, overall facial shape, and distance between the top of the eye and the brows. The noses appear a bit different, though. And could the Paul chopping wood be matched with any of the Pauls who are all dressed alike and appear in the Paperback Writer photo sessions? Can you link to the specific Pauls you mean?
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Post by kvo on Jan 6, 2022 11:12:41 GMT -5
Okay, in trying to match up these guys, what about matching the Memphis interview Paul (there were two, I am referring to the one in the dressing room where there was a single interviewer), with the Paul who is exiting the Peppermint Lounge doing his voice mimics? Peppermint Lounge Paul has his back to the camera most of the time but turns to peer at the camera twice. I froze the face both times. I see a strong similarity between the two men with respect to the shape of the eyelids, overall facial shape, and distance between the top of the eye and the brows. The noses appear a bit different, though. And could the Paul chopping wood be matched with any of the Pauls who are all dressed alike and appear in the Paperback Writer photo sessions? Can you link to the specific Pauls you mean? Here is the Making of the First U.S. Visit Documentary and the Memphis Interview. Try freezing the documentary at 22:08 and take a look at the eyelids. Then, look at the 1966 Memphis interview eyelids, freezing the face of that Paul at different intervals. The eyelids look the same. But unfortunately, I now see that the chins don't seem a match. Memphis Paul seems to have a longer, more rounded chin. This is highly frustrating. How many of these guys were there? www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FhQY7BSKpkwww.youtube.com/watch?v=7KKUbQfUeAIOn edit: Oh crap! Do I see evidence of a fake chin on the Memphis interview? Look CLOSELY. I think a see a demarcation with a differing skin tone around the chin.
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Post by kvo on Feb 8, 2022 11:37:37 GMT -5
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