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Post by pennylane on Dec 29, 2004 2:00:53 GMT -5
Ok.. so now i've delved into the PID black hole, i think pretty thoroughly! I've read the books, seen the pictures and heard the voices. I would really like to hear everyone's theory's on what you think happened.. cause this is where i hit my dead end. I'm about 60/40 on the PID band wagon. 60 for the fact that he looks and sounds and acts like a completely different person and the clues are endless. You'd think that would be enough... but no.. there's my problem.. the 40 is for the fact that i just can't understand how the other band members could be so disrespectful in the death of their good friend, and not let the world mourn him. Really there is no good excuse anyone could give me for that! Hence my 60/40. Hopefully you guys will share your theories here
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Post by FlamingPie on Dec 29, 2004 2:03:58 GMT -5
Well I believe Paul looks and sounds the same, and was never replaced. That's my theory.
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Post by pennylane on Dec 29, 2004 2:13:43 GMT -5
ahhh.. not really the response i was lookin for, but thanks anyways FP
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Post by xpt626 on Dec 29, 2004 4:33:01 GMT -5
Hi PennyLane, I'm pasting part of one of my earlier posts here that pretty much gives my opinion on what happened: It is very possible that The Beatles continued as a group in order to secure Britain's financial independence. There was an article published in the 60's stating how revenue from The Beatles was going to do just that. There was even a corporation formed to keep track of said earnings.
Loyalty to, and the good of, one's country used to come before the needs of an individual....
There are all sorts of possibilities. The rabid group over at another site that accuses Ringo and John of complicity in murder, among other things, does not represent the thoughts of this forum.
I personally do not believe the "whys" or "hows" will ever be completely known.
here is the link to a related article: invanddis.proboards29.com/index.cgi?board=Clues&action=display&thread=1077033587my thoughts are that Paul died accidentally. Perhaps in a car crash, as many of the clues seem to suggest. Bill was substituted for Paul in order to keep the group together, and keep the (massive!) revenue coming in for the future financial security of England. It was an opportunity they would only have once. That could be a factor in the Knighting of The Beatles...Loyalty and Service to the crown. "Living the lie" was probably much harder on the remaining three Fabs than they could've imagined. Someone (a friend) "erased" from reality, and no one notices. That could also help to explain the 'contempt' Lennon showed in his later years for some of the fans, and towards governments in general.
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Post by -Wings- on Dec 29, 2004 5:23:34 GMT -5
I'm about 60/40 a believer of PID as well. While I usually lean into the PID camp, I will admit that young Paul looks a lot like Faul in some pictures and the whole idea seems ridiculous at times. I guess it depends on how adventerous I'm feeling on a particular day. If PID/PWR isn't true, then I feel there's defintely something else going on there that we're missing.
Anyway, my opinion pretty much follows xpt626's. As for Paul 2.0/Faul/Bill, I still think he was either in the OPP or involved with them in some way at one point. I also don't think he was originally supposed to play the part for this long. He was probably only supposed to be a stand-in for Paul until the Beatles broke up, but he decided to keep at it. Remember, he was the one who desperately tried to keep the band alive, and when it looked like the end was inevitable, he was the one to announce it was over (while also plugging his solo album).
Ironically, he's been at it for so long that he's now more of a Paul McCartney than the original ever had a chance to be.
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Post by Doc on Dec 29, 2004 5:39:13 GMT -5
Yes, I can tally with that, though I'm more of a 80%/20% type.
He has been a McCartney for 38 years give or take. And faithfully and commitedly. I think he has taken it very seriously, very honorably. Nothing taken lightly. Actually, daunting to consider.
It's not your garden variety life to lead, now is it?
How many people are flexible enough, willing enough, consistent enough to maintain such a task for so long? I mean, good gravy, night and day week end week out month after month year after year. Decades pass. When do you take a proverbial "breath" from maintaining it? How in the name of criminny do you plug on and continue? Not your everyday, garden variety person, or task.
Not easy. Does anyone contemplate that such a challenge would be easy? You gotta know it don't come easy---d'oh, sorry.
A life where you can't have it both ways; have your cake and eat it too. One way or the highway.
I'm so undisciplined sometimes. I would have ordered extra cake slices and taken a cab along the backroads.
Hasve we ever considered fully the daily import of dealing with "Being John Malkovich?" Only, the scene never ends, the dialogue has to keep coming, the cameras are always on, and nobody lets you leave the "set."
Mmmmm. Uhhh. Make a man wanna go to the beach.
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Post by Doc on Dec 29, 2004 6:00:20 GMT -5
And, xpt626, I just backed up and really read your above post and I do agree heartily. I think (and having English ancestry) the good of the nation of England is, or was very important to consider. England does MANY things to benefit the rest of the world (they will rise to the ocasion about this Indonesian.Indian Ocean earthquake disaster, just you wait and see). England and America always do. Always lead the world in disaster aid. England was still recovering from the 40's (WWWII) and the 50's (recessions). The Beatle phenomenon was a freak of history, a one time serendipidy. And Zappa said "We did it for the money". I know what that cynical genius was saying. A mind, but a cold heart. Still, I respect his music. Zappa was right about a lot of things---but so bitter. Too bitter. IMO. Still, yes, it is hard to imagine someone buried over in the rush to continue a project. As if he matters, yet does NOT matter at the same time. Like, you couldn't have done it without him having been there; but he's embarrassing to let be seen by anybody now. Well, I realize why, and I know how "the masses" react. It's cause nobody knows if "the masses" can be trusted to understand it and forgive and ACCEPT it, isn't it? Of course. Well, it's an obvious dilemma. Now, in my impractical laissez-faire, let's get on with the show, this is all it is, attitude, I feel like just kicking everybody in the shins and saying, "Look people! this IS what happened. this is what was done, and this is why! Now, get over it, thank the parties that be for their wisdom, and move one, and buy more Beatle records and enjoy some of the best 60's pop ever made. 'mmmKay?". But my ideas are not always the very best ideas. I mean, I LIKED the Chevrolet Corvair. I thought the engine in the back was cool, and the push button transmission sublime. The Edsel COULD have been a great moment in automotive innovation. I wanted Jim Carrey to play "Darrin" in the new movie of "Bewitched." I wanted them to move "Saturday Night Live" to Fridays. I am waiting for them to start making boom-box players WITH condenser microphones again. And, the follow-up sequel to the "Lost in Space" movie. Don't hold my breath? I am already blue. Oxygen would be superflous to me now.
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Post by pennylane on Dec 29, 2004 8:14:06 GMT -5
I just can't imagine them not saying anything.. especially John. Contractual obligations, money blah blah.. there's no way any of that would've kept John quiet. There must be something that were missing! and as for fakepaul.. i can't even comprehend how hard it would've been for him
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Post by eyesbleed on Dec 29, 2004 9:01:11 GMT -5
I just can't imagine them not saying anything.. especially John. Contractual obligations, money blah blah.. there's no way any of that would've kept John quiet. There must be something that were missing! and as for fakepaul.. i can't even comprehend how hard it would've been for him John did enjoy his freedom. And he really enjoyed being in a position that enabled him to get his hands on the highest quality drugs in the world. I can't help but think that he feared loosing all that somehow. I'm more 95%-5% myself, but I know what yer talking about. Business associates are easy to understand, but so many family members agreeing to this is very hard to comprehend. We can only imagine how this worked. But as strange & unbelievable as this story is; there's so much more goin' on out there now that equals it. As mysteriouis as this is, I am currently much more mystified by the long list of lies that Americans (among others) believe to be true today. Of course that's for another forum, but really.... PID is no longer the most unbelievable thing out there to me. In fact, I think the current goin's on make replacing JPM seem like childs-play.
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Post by Doc on Dec 29, 2004 10:12:01 GMT -5
eyesbleed, about your post above, agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed to all your points. Abso-d*mn-lutely. The Beatle thing---yes, Child's play. Issues today are SO much more hairy and large. Like a gorilla, people, or wooley bear. Don't go for the seamy..... Todays issues are staggering. And why do they exist, eyesbleed? greed, greed, greed, greed, greed on so many points. And, honestly, I am a 99-dash-1 percenter many days of the week. I just find that by maintaining a flexible ratio, I can stay a little more sane. And, Penny, about John keeping "mum"? Contractual obligations? Well, there may be the "Sense of duty to the country" thing that Englishmen feel and are inculcated with. Nationalism. That goes a long way, and is legitimate. Maybe the promise was made early (and broken) to John that it was for only 5 or 10 years, no more................Or, not. But then there's always this: Let's say that in order to continue and have the replacement provided for, everyone had to agree to allow ALL their earnings (the 5% they got to "keep", and I mean that loosely) to be held in a some kind of company trust, like in a credit union/accrued fund kind of thing. Kind of a money tree. They each would get a nice allowance. (I'm guessin'.) The first time they say a clear word that is out of line, in a leading or clear context about the situation, BLAM! Forfeiture of all assets held by the offender to that company which was created to escrow the monies. One wrong word about Paul, and it's pluck pluck pluck pluck pluck. That could be scary. Make you turn into a chicken! Cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck! I think that John would not be eager to get tangled up in the branches of that bank........he'd want his assets to stay planted, and grow, and bear fruit and leaves, in interest. So, it would be, either hush up, or poverty, and kiss your career Bye-Bye! Remember his own financial struggles, and moma and dad, and Aunt Mimi, and..hmmmm..can't let Yoko down....... So, what do we think John would want to say? He might have reminded us that the Apple never Fauls very far from the tree.... Yuk, yuk,yuk,yuk,yuk!
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Post by pennylane on Dec 30, 2004 1:54:50 GMT -5
i totally agree with the replacing JPM is like childs play compared to the lies we are fed today. I just don't get it! It's glaringly obvious with the 100's of clues that they wanted to say it, but couldn't come right out with it. For what reason, we will never know [img src="http://galeon.hispavista.com/akostuff/img/Dunno2[1].gif"] makes me wonder if John would've said something if he was still alive today, my guess is he would've! *sigh* john bless you John Personally i think there is a VERY dark underbelly to the whole PID thing, cause nothing surprises me anymore!
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Post by eyesbleed on Dec 30, 2004 8:36:34 GMT -5
Personally i think there is a VERY dark underbelly to the whole PID thing, cause nothing surprises me anymore! Yes, exactly. A very dark underbelly indeed. Just notice the drastic change in personalities after 66. They went from being the fun Fab 4 to being very sombre & unhappy.... & that's not a result of the drugs.
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Post by FlamingPie on Dec 30, 2004 8:47:09 GMT -5
Yes, exactly. A very dark underbelly indeed. Just notice the drastic change in personalities after 66. They went from being the fun Fab 4 to being very sombre & unhappy.... & that's not a result of the drugs. They stopped being the "fun Fab 4" around early '66.
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Post by eyesbleed on Dec 30, 2004 9:06:52 GMT -5
They stopped being the "fun Fab 4" around early '66. They stopped being the "Fab Four", they stopped touring with a flimsy stupid excuse, their personalities changed, the music changed, & the appearance totally changed. They went from just having fun all the time to being very sombre. Yer giving drugs too much credit if you think that's the only reason. If yer happy & having fun all the time, LSD makes you happier. It ONLY magnifies the currect state of mind. It doesn't add to it. With all these drastic changes, don't you ever stop & wonder WHY?? Hey FP.... I would gladly go over & accept my honorable mention at M4E, but I was banned after only ONE post. I will remember that next time I'm tempted to be nice & patient with a rabid PIAer.
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Post by FlamingPie on Dec 30, 2004 9:27:49 GMT -5
They stopped being the "Fab Four", they stopped touring with a flimsy stupid excuse, their personalities changed, the music changed, & the appearance totally changed. They went from just having fun all the time to being very sombre. Yer giving drugs too much credit if you think that's the only reason. If yer happy & having fun all the time, LSD makes you happier. It ONLY magnifies the currect state of mind. It doesn't add to it. With all these drastic changes, don't you ever stop & wonder WHY?? I thought they said cocaine was the one that magnifies you... Either way, every drug effects each person differently. And Paul changed his appearance the exact amount the rest of the Beatles did. Well, I know you disagree with that... And the music really didn't change much from '66 to '67. Listen to Revolver, then Pepper. The main difference is the cover pic. One post? What post was that? I asually agree with Larry's decisions, but that doesn't sound fair. And you're making it sound like PIAers and PIDers are two different species. No, we're the same, just with different beliefs on one subject. You know that.
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Post by eyesbleed on Dec 30, 2004 9:47:44 GMT -5
And Paul changed his appearance the exact amount the rest of the Beatles did. Well, I know you disagree with that... . The others only changed clothes & hairstyles. (P)Faul changed faces, height, voice, & build. And the music really didn't change much from '66 to '67. Listen to Revolver, then Pepper. The main difference is the cover pic. . Do WHAT?? I don't even know where to start with that one. The ENTIRE recording proccess changed drastically. I don't hear any simlarities. One post? What post was that? I asually agree with Larry's decisions, but that doesn't sound fair. And you're making it sound like PIAers and PIDers are two different species. No, we're the same, just with different beliefs on one subject. You know that. Just stating an observation comparing our acceptance of alternate views here as opposed to the lack of acceptance at M4E... or any other Beatles/Macca forum on the internet for that matter. The truth always catches the most heat.
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Post by FlamingPie on Dec 30, 2004 9:55:53 GMT -5
Do WHAT?? I don't even know where to start with that one. The ENTIRE recording proccess changed drastically. I don't hear any simlarities. When I listen to Revolver, you can hear Pepper coming up. Think about the jump from Meet the Beatles to Revolver, and then from Revolver to Pepper. And when I say "jump" I'm not talking about recording proccesses. You didn't answer my entire question. What was the post you made that got you banned from M4E?
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Post by eyesbleed on Dec 30, 2004 10:05:24 GMT -5
When I listen to Revolver, you can hear Pepper coming up. Think about the jump from Meet the Beatles to Revolver, and then from Revolver to Pepper. And when I say "jump" I'm not talking about recording proccesses. I hear an equal amount of change either way. MTB to Revolver or Revolver to SPLHCB Drastic changes on every level with both "jumps" You didn't answer my entire question. What was the post you made that got you banned from M4E? That was long ago & I don't remember precisely, but I was disagreeing with the M4E P.O.V. Kinda like most all PIA posts that are tolerated here. (to a point)
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Post by FlamingPie on Dec 30, 2004 10:18:49 GMT -5
I hear an equal amount of change either way. MTB to Revolver or Revolver to SPLHCB Drastic changes on every level with both "jumps" Well it looks like the LSD sped up the amout of time it takes for a drastic change for them. ;D Larry let Morph, Abbey, Revolver, even SK stay, I dunno why he'd ban you for disagreeing. Doesn't seem like him. I'm gonna ask.
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Post by eyesbleed on Dec 30, 2004 10:26:26 GMT -5
Larry let Morph, Abbey, Revolver, even SK stay, I dunno why he'd ban you for disagreeing. Doesn't seem like him. I'm gonna ask. Don't bother. A)I don't have time discuss the "fake" Beatles history over there or any other Beatles forum. I like it here where we can try to dig thru all the deceptions & illusions. B) I can't think of one single reason to spend time in a forum where I disagree with almost everything said. So thanks but no thanks. I wasn't complaining about M4E, just rethinking OUR level of tolerance.
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Post by FlamingPie on Dec 30, 2004 10:45:02 GMT -5
B) I can't think of one single reason to spend time in a forum where I disagree with almost everything said. Welcome to my world. I'm asking him out of curiosity, it just doesn't seem like him to do that.
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Post by eyesbleed on Dec 30, 2004 11:16:24 GMT -5
Welcome to my world. I'm asking him out of curiosity, it just doesn't seem like him to do that. Hey FP... you know yer our favorite "Closet PIDer!" My guess is the The Great Larry C will not even remember. It's no big deal. It was no big deal a long time ago. If anything, that is the better way to run a topic-specific forum.
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Post by DarkHorse on Dec 30, 2004 12:06:56 GMT -5
Welcome to my world. Oh come on, you know you love it here and as EB said you're our #1 closet PIDer.
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Post by FlamingPie on Dec 30, 2004 12:18:40 GMT -5
Oh come on, you know you love it here and as EB said you're our #1 closet PIDer. I do love it here. I love making and posting fades and comparisons here. ;D But I hate this place at the same time. I hate how my work is considered worthless because I'm using "doctored" pics, that nobody here has proof of. But the former outweighs the latter.
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Post by Red Lion on Dec 30, 2004 12:42:37 GMT -5
I do love it here. I love making and posting fades and comparisons here. ;D We like having you here FP. Even though you may not realize it you are a terrific advocate of PID. Your fades consistently make our points for us. But I hate this place at the same time. I hate how my work is considered worthless because I'm using "doctored" pics, that nobody here has proof of. Your work is not worthless, true you do use some questionable pics and misinterpret what you see though. Someday you will observe your work in a different light and realize what has been so obvious to all of us here at NIR. View as many pics as you can till it clicks in your brain. And dont be embarrassed when you finally do get it. I promise no one here will make you eat crow.
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