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Post by Mellow Yellow on Aug 8, 2006 1:02:09 GMT -5
goodfight.org/goodfight.org/tvad.wmvNow, I am not saying I agree with this video at all, but it makes some important statements about the beatles, the rolling stones, john lennon, and rock and roll in general. In the vid, it says that John Lennon said that he sold his soul, now I dont know if he meant it figuratively or if he really did the whole crossroads thing of legend, and I was hoping someone on here could confirm this quote and tell me if it is legit and perhaps what context it was used in?
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Post by Red Lion on Aug 8, 2006 2:39:52 GMT -5
That video is a soapbox for some religious fanatic. The devil??........maybe they sold their souls to santa claus or the easter bunny.
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Post by eyesbleed on Aug 8, 2006 7:15:02 GMT -5
Must avoid video is more like it. These religious fanatics are not to be believed & are very dangerous. These people spread nothing but hate for anyone not like them. They are NOT the chosen people! Sorry to see yer gettin' swept up in this dangerous garbage. I know first hand how these people are so I couldn't watch more than 30sec. .... As far as lennon goes; he was well known for sayin' all sorts of outlandish things in interviews, & contradicting himself many times on many subjests. I think he would just say whatever he thought would get the biggest rise out of people at the time. I dunno.... I think John may have sold his soul to rock & roll You want some first hand insider accounts of how these so-called religious leaders are? I've got plenty..... the local community think my dad is just a wonderful man & a wonderful preacher, but in reality, he's the most dishonest, cold-hearted person I have ever met. If my dad & George Bush are men of God, then that's one god I wanna stay as far away from as possible. I am really sorry to see this developement, M.Y.
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Post by lili on Aug 8, 2006 9:48:02 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear that about your dad, eyesbleed. I know how hard it can be. I'm of a different religion than most people that I know, so I just avoid that subject RELIGIOUSLY ! It upsets me also when people are so pushy concerning their religion. I'm of the personal belief that there is no RIGHT religion. Everyone has to follow their own path.
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Post by Mellow Yellow on Aug 8, 2006 13:15:14 GMT -5
I guess you are right eyesbleed. I really don't agree with most of what the video says, because it seems to me it is just one of those things that takes things out of context, and people who don't know any better fall for it. I really just wanted to know if what it said about john had any substance to it, you know, if john really said that or not.
I have a friend who has recently fallen into a very very fundamentalist group of Christianity and he constantly talks about this stuff, he now only listens to Christian music that his church puts the "ok" stamp on.
I didnt title this topic "must see" because I believed the video, its just that I wanted to hear what other people had to say and not have my topic overlooked....
Personally, I am going to be right up front with all of you, I am best categorized as a "liberal" Christian, I don't go to church because I see the types of people that go to them, and yes, like eyesbleed said they are hypocrites. When I was in High School (I do realize I am one of the younger users on this board) most people went to this one church, which would try to lure in more and more kids advertising things like "FREE PIZZA" "VIDEO GAMEZ!!" it's just a big numbers game to them.
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Post by lili on Aug 8, 2006 13:43:11 GMT -5
Mello Yello, that is just sad. My daughter prides herself that she was thrown out of catechism class for speaking her own mind ! My family tried following different versions of Christianity, but it just didn't seem to fit us. Now we follow our own path.
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Post by LOVELYRITA on Aug 8, 2006 14:08:16 GMT -5
If one talks about the organized religion that is disguised as Christianity, you're right, it's as phoney as a $3.00 bill. I've been there, and have seen how bad it really is. There's so much garbage going on that it makes one's head spin. I'm reading a book called "The Two Babylons" and the stuff that is being pawned off as Christian, in the Catholic Church is really ancient paganism with Christian nametags. And I had read another book called "Pagan Christianity" written by Frank Viola and all that has been done in churches goes against the Bible. Unfortunately, most churches don't even know what a Bible looks like from the inside, that is , they don't really know what's on those pages, they don't live the life. They depend on an hour a week and that's not true religion.
The Bible talks about the end times where there's a "falling away", what you see on TV is false teachers and preachers. It's creepy and it's dangerous. If you think that unsaved people, or people of other religions think Church is gone bad, check out a site called "Slice of Laodicea", it's a blog where there are horror stories of what is taking place in churches, written by believers who have been shunned and kicked out of these newfangled churches. The sad part is that most people think of "Christian" and you get the images that are mentioned in the above posts.
I don't even like to use the word "Christian" because most people's ideas of that word are far from Christlike. As well as we have seen from other posts. I am a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, but I'm not any part of the blasphemy that is called "church".
The saddest part is that people can't even see Jesus in those people because He's not even part of their church or service, in name only. They have made it a mockery that even mentioning something spiritual, many people get unnerved and want to run the opposite direction. And unfortunately, all believers get lumped in that categorey, even though there is a small number who don't follow the pagan stuff and have left organized churchianity.
I've seen the video myself and one of the things that disturb me about it is the so called Bible translation that is used in the video is not one that I am familiar with. The words are different and that causes me to be alarmed. Another thing is the constant repetition of certain images. If this in fact to be shown to young people about the dangers of rock and roll, seeing some of that footage in a small amount would be sufficient, and not a constant bombardment of it. And to have that extensive amount of footage of the various artists causes me to ask, "How much time did these researchers spend in watching videos and films?"
Aleistar Crowley has had an influence on the music scene, and in the culture. How much was influenced on the Beatles I don't know. But he was on the album cover of Sgt. Pepper. So whether it was tongue-in -cheek or true followers of these people is something I cannot answer. Someone who knew the Beatles personally could answer for that, but most of the people who knew the Beatles are either dead or allegedly replaced, and the few who are still alive, Sir Faul and Ringo and George Martin aren't going to be talking about this subject.
As anything, there should be viewer warning at the content. There were some images that were rather graphic and there should have been a disclaimer. If I were leading a youth group, I wouldn't allow them to see the videos.
BTW, the man is supposed to be a pastor of a "worship center", he doesn't even use the word "Church". What does that tell you?
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Post by JoJo on Aug 8, 2006 16:26:08 GMT -5
Actually I got a good laugh out of it, especially when the message screaming $29.95! popped up for the 100th time in like five minutes. He's selling this thing like a set of Ginsu knives.. I also love how he "proves" that BB King sold his soul to the devil by dragging out one of his old buddies; and since he remembers him saying it, it must be true! (I suspect alcohol was involved, either then or now) Now the thing with John, I've read it before. My interpretation, and since he spoke of this on more than one occasion, was that by switching from Skiffle to boy/girl pop songs, they traded playing music they loved for music that makes the bucks; or rather they made money their main motivation. Some would portray that as "selling your soul", yes.
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Post by eyesbleed on Aug 8, 2006 18:06:56 GMT -5
I guess you are right eyesbleed. I really don't agree with most of what the video says, because it seems to me it is just one of those things that takes things out of context, and people who don't know any better fall for it. I really just wanted to know if what it said about john had any substance to it, you know, if john really said that or not. I have a friend who has recently fallen into a very very fundamentalist group of Christianity and he constantly talks about this stuff, he now only listens to Christian music that his church puts the "ok" stamp on. I didnt title this topic "must see" because I believed the video, its just that I wanted to hear what other people had to say and not have my topic overlooked.... Personally, I am going to be right up front with all of you, I am best categorized as a "liberal" Christian, I don't go to church because I see the types of people that go to them, and yes, like eyesbleed said they are hypocrites. When I was in High School (I do realize I am one of the younger users on this board) most people went to this one church, which would try to lure in more and more kids advertising things like "FREE PIZZA" "VIDEO GAMEZ!!" it's just a big numbers game to them. WHEW ;D Glad to read this... ya had me worried there! Ya kinda opened a can of worms here didn't ya. I should probably try to resist my automatic reaction to this stuff every time this sort of thing pops up But of course I don't consider the self control part until after I've posted a sufficiant rant. ;D
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Post by lili on Aug 9, 2006 9:37:31 GMT -5
Jo wrote: I have to agree with Jo about this. The boys did give up playing the music that they loved, to start writing & playing music geared to making the bucks ! Eyesbleed, I totally understand your knee jerk reaction to this kind of stuff. I often have the same reaction myself.
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Post by noodles on Aug 9, 2006 11:20:21 GMT -5
I think that this video and indeed the numerous Christian websites that cover this topic do more harm than good. Clearly there are links between the music industry and the occult/satanism/black magic/hypnotism/witchcraft/mid control/etc but by simply reporting (often out of context) titbits regarding a crossection of artists and failing to ever investigate this subject with any real depth it makes it all seem like a joke. As JoJo said I wouldn't take John's comment too seriously but if anyone does have that book and can put it into context I'd certainly be interested to read what else he said. Yoko seemed to be interested in magic. From the 1980 Playboy interview: ONO: " To make money, you have to spend money. But if you are going to make money, you have to make it with love. I love Egyptian art. I make sure to get all the Egyptian things, not for their value but for their magic power. Each piece has a certain magic power."
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Post by lili on Aug 9, 2006 13:37:05 GMT -5
Interesting:
A love letter from John and Yoko To people who ask us what, when and why
From the back page of the New York Times Sunday, May 27, 1979 The past ten years we noticed everything we wished came true in its own time, good or bad, one way or the other. We kept telling each other that one of these days we would have to get organized and wish for only good things. Then our baby arrived! We were overjoyed and at the same time felt very responsible. Now our wishes would also affect him. We felt it was time for us to stop discussing and do something about our wishing process: The Spring Cleaning of our minds! It was a lot of work. We kept finding things in those old closets in our minds that we hadn't realized were still there, things we wished we hadn't found. As we did our cleaning, we also started to notice many wrong things in our house: there was a shelf which should never have been there in the first place, a painting we grew to dislike, and there were the two dingy rooms, which became light and breezy when we broke the walls between them. We started to love the plants, which one of us originally through were robbing the air from us! We began to enjoy the drum beat of the city which used to annoy us. We made a lot of mistakes and still do. In the past we spent lots of energy in trying to get something we thought we wanted, wondered why we didn't get it, only to find out that one or both of us didn't really want it. One day, we received a sudden rain of chocolates from people around the world. "Hey, what's this! We're not eating sugar stuff, are we?" "Who's wishing it?" We both laughed. We discovered that when two of us wished in unison, it happened faster. As the Good Book says -- Where two are gathered together -- It's true. Two is plenty. A New Clear Seed.
More and more we are starting to wish and pray. The things we have tried to achieve in the past by flashing a V sign, we try now through wishing. We are not doing this because it is simpler. Wishing is more effective than waving flags. It works. It's like magic. Magic is simple. Magic is real. The secret of it is to know that it is simple, and not kill it with an elaborate ritual which is a sign of insecurity. When somebody is angry with us, we draw a halo around his or her head in our minds. Does the person stop being angry then? Well, we don't know! We know, though, that when we draw a halo around a person, suddenly the person starts to look like an angel to us. This helps us feel warm towards the person, reminds us that everyone has goodness inside, and that all people who come to us are angels in disguise, carrying messages and gifts to us from the Universe. Magic is logical. Try it sometime. We still have a long way to go. It seems the more we get into cleaning, the faster the wishing and receiving process gets. The house is getting very comfortable now. Sean is beautiful. The plants are growing. The cats are purring. The town is shining, sun, rain or snow. We live in a beautiful universe. We are thankful every day for the plentifulness of our life. This is not a euphemism. We understand that we, the city, the country, the earth are facing very hard times, and there is panic in the air. Still the sun is shining and we are here together, and there is love between us, our city, the country, the earth. If two people like us can do what we are doing with our lives, any miracle is possible! It's true we can do with a few big miracles right now. The thing is to recognize them when they come to you and to be thankful. First they come in a small way, in every day life, then they come in rivers, and in oceans. It's goin' to be alright! The future of the earth is up to all of us.
Many people are sending us vibes every day in letters, telegrams, taps on the gate, or just flowers and nice thoughts. We thank them all and appreciate them for respecting our quiet space, which we need. Thank you for all the love you send us. We feel it every day. We love you, too. We know you are concerned about us. That is nice. That's why you want to know what we are doing. That's why everybody is asking us What, When and Why. We understand. Well, this is what we've been doing. We hope that you have the same quiet space in your mind to make your own wishes come true.
If you think of us next time, remember, our silence is a silence of love and not of indifference. Remember, we are writing in the sky instead of on paper -- that's our song. Lift your eyes and look up in the sky. There's our message. Life your eyes again and look around you, and you will see that you are walking in the sky, which extends to the ground. We are all part of the sky, more so than of the ground. Remember, we love you.
John Lennon & Yoko Ono May 27th, 1979 New York City PS. We noticed that three angels were looking over our shoulders when we wrote this!
GAME IS NOT OVER - 2005 OXFORD UNION ADDRESS
We all know that we are at the crossroads of blowing up together, stay alive maimed, or slowly die from cancer or other unpronounceable ailments we don't have the cure for. We may become the subject of experimentation of scientists as well. That's another area of control we are being subjected to. Due to many powerful controlling forces, not necessarily coupled with the right judgement, we are now surrounded by polluted water, polluted air and polluted land full of pesticides and nuclear waste.
The vast majority of politicians are bought by corporations the interests of which are to make money, and more money. Corporations are not people. They are just giant machineries working for one end: to make money. People who control the corporations are just slaves to the machinery they work for. Some of them get wise and pull themselves out. They get enormous parachute payments and run. The politicians are slaves of the slaves. They may do some posturing to show us that they are actually working for the people. But they are not. They cannot be. They need big corporate monies to back them up to be in their position to begin with.
In a situation like this, what can we do?
We, the people, are asked now, to be incrediblly, incredibly wise. And so we are. We are getting very wise very fast. Our survival instinct of the race is waking us up. As soon as we have decided to confront the truth without anger or despair, we started to see the truth. The truth is getting more and more obvious now. The game politicians and corporations play to keep people away from truth are not working anymore. They needed people to take care of their dirty work. People who witnessed pieces of truth of what was going on started to speak out.
I know how it is when you speak out. You feel terribly vulnerable. You look around and see that nobody is with you. In fact, the whole world seems to be laughing at you. That was the experience John, my husband and I had when we spoke out. You should write to whoever had the courage to speak out and express your solidarity. Your letter becomes a protection for them. If tons of letters would go to them, they will not be covered up or disappear. That's how it works. Letter writing is still a very effective weapon. You should know that.
There are courageous reporters, too. Mad Cow disease was covered up for ten years in United Kingdom. A minister demonstrated on TV to show how it was safe for him and his son to eat cow meat as a strong gesture of assurance to the people. Despite that the truth came out to the public because of one photo of piled up cow carcasses taken by a reporter.
Shed light, and darkness disappears.
Use the most powerful addition to our lives called the Internet. The Internet is a revolution. Because of the internet, our world is becoming a global village as we predicted in the sixties. The internet communication keeps us together and wise. Politicians are now trying to find a way to block or mess up the internet communication. That means they know how important internet is for the people. They can bribe journalist in a few choice positions to make them become convenient mouth pieces, and they do, but they cannot bribe the whole internet.
There are two very important writings on the internet I want to share with you. One was by Michael Fitzgerald called Militarism: A way of life which is in the latest issue of UTNe Reader., also online at the original magazine website THE HUMANIST.
The article speaks of how being a son of a working class navy man, he has realized how millions of Americans depended their livelihoods on the permanent war economy - not limited to people in the military, but people who worked as defense contractors. A person cannot be elected to be the President of the country, unless they are voted by the military and defense contractors.Therefore, If the President does not take the nation to war, he will not be able to stay President. The article refers to the fact that Lyndon Johnson said, privately, he feared impeachment if he pulled out of Vietnam. Well, that's a hell of a statement.
When I read this article, I felt very depressed, because it was an intelligent article pointing to a logical reality I was blocking from my mind. I sent it to all my politically minded friends, and they all became just as depressed as I was. Some came back saying, "there's no point in us making a peace effort then. it's a waste of time." I felt that way, too, for a second. Am I just an old peacenik, ignoring reality? It seemed that way.
Then I've read another article that really gave me a lift. So I want to share it with you.
It was called GIVE PEACE A CHANCE which, naturally, attracted my attention immediately. It was an OpEd article in New York Times by John Tierney May 28th, 2005. It spoke of the fact that we were just facing a time of the end of the war, altogether. The logic was that "even if the war, such as the one in Iraq, was a pragmatic venture to keep oil flowing, not even the most ruthless accountant could justify the expense." The American military costs in the Persian Gulf were much greater than the value of all the oil it was getting from the region, and now the United States is spending at least four times what the oil's worth.
That was such a great news! I have been going around for sometime saying that unless Peace Industry became more viable than war industry, we would always have war, since war was invariably motivated by possible economic gain. But now, what I thought was nearly impossible was actually happening! Peace industry was becoming more viable than war industry! Even an optimist like me, did not think that I would see that in my life time.
War in the old days was hit and run affair. You destroyed a weaker nation than yours, take everything that was valuable, and either colonize the country to further milk it, or just leave. Nowadays, you cannot do that. Because of the advancement of the media, in varying degrees people are aware of what you are doing. The whole world is watching you. So after you spend so much money on the war itself, you cannot take home anything that is not yours. More over, you have to help the country to reconstruct. What kind of deal is that?
On top of it, the whole world accuses you each time you kill a group of civilians and families. It's different from the days when you could kill hundreds and thousands of civilians and families in one go, like in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and be considered justified.
People are getting wiser because they see. That's what's happening. That is what will save us from the impending doomsday. Simply by becoming wiser, and keeping a clear vision. That's the power all of us people have. Politicians are humans, too. They don't want to be too unpopular. Besides, they may lose significant amount of votes. So they become quickly intimidated when they feel the wise eyes of people all staring at them. On the other hand, they get strangely energized, when, confused and frightened, people scream at them in anger. That is because they feed on your attention and the strong energy you send them. They could even feel heroic about weathering the storm.
Countries, too, nowadays, must do things right so they don't get criticized by the whole world. The world is watching. I wish the international court in Hague is more independent and strong. But even without Hague, when the light is shed on what is done, it is not easy to continue being unjust. The financial result of the Iraq War hopefully will discourage others from trying to solve future situations by war and violence. We are starting to understand that war does not pay, it only creates costly destruction to us all.
In the United States, some people are still thinking that this war in Iraq, like the first and the second world war, could eventually bring a lot of money to the United States - at least to its corporations. Well, all I can say is that it will be mighty difficult for one to put its hand in the pot when the whole world is looking at you. And this is not just about the United States. Every country is hoping to put their hands in the pot of oil. But this game will be over, too, when we find other sources of energy. Many brains are now trying to figure that one out.
True, our planet is in a pretty bad shape now because of human misjudgements. But the healing process is taking place now, starting with the awareness of the futility of war and violence. We can quicken the process of "healing" as well. First, we have to recognize the incredible power of our minds. The other day, I was doing a fast walk in Central Park with a trainer. He kept saying "You're thinking about something." I've realized that whenever I was thinking, I was slowing down. Well, if my body can slow down because I'm thinking about something, how much effect does my mind have on my body? It's a scary thought.
Our mind is a very strong instrument. One day, early this year, I went to a restaurant. When i finished eating, the woman who was at the next table just said quietly - "I was there at the bed-in in Montreal." I looked at her, and she looked so young, I automatically said, "you must have been a baby then." She told me how she and her friends as teen-agers heard that John and I were doing the bed-in in Montreal, and decided to drive up to see us. I actually remembered that there were a few high school students who came and wanted to see us. John and I told our assistant to let them in. They came and sat with us for a long time...probably they were there when we did the Give Peace A Chance. i didn't ask her about that. Anyway, the woman told me that the experience of being at the bed-in changed her life. It was such a big thing for her, she didn't even tell that story to her husband until they were together for a few years. The husband was smiling and nodding as she told this story to me.
The friend who was with me told me later, that he thought, also, she looked remarkably young. "But you know," he said, "all my friends died of this illness and that, and I am still here and people tell me that I look remarkably young. Do you think it has something to do with the fact that people like that girl and I have been part of "the experience- you know, the magic of it." "It's possible." I said. "Give Peace A Chance," since then, has been sung all over the world. The fact that it was made then in that bedroom, may have exerted some special power." My friend, by the way, was not there at the bed-in. But Give Peace A Chance and Imagine were like his mantra of life. Believe in giving peace a chance. Believe in the power of imaging world peace.
When John passed away so suddenly, I was feeling very bad. Not only that, but I discovered that there were people who specialized in taking advantage of widows. Nobody thinks they will be a widow, and when you are, you are so shellshocked you don't feel like speaking out about something like that. So these are things that are not spoken of so much in our world.
I was getting hit left and right. It was getting so heavy, I was worried that it would effect my health. So to release myself from the weight of it, I kept blessing the names that came to my mind, every night before I went to sleep. I would say bless jack, bless bill, bless peter like that. Whatever name that came up. Sometimes I would get a shock, and say to myself "I'm not going to bless that one, am I?!" But I kept going. I realized something very interesting. The name that came up more often than not were the names of people who were particularly not nice to me. The names of the worst enemies, so to speak. So I ended up blessing those people. Strange things started to happen. The enemies were still attacking me. But some of them were getting more interested in something else. Some of them started to have some difficulty in their own lives that made them focus their energies on those things more than on me. One group of people started to fight amongst themselves. One of them, in fact, came to me complaining about his gang of friends how unfair they were to him about his take and confessed to me what they were up to! I may have been just lucky, and the change of the situation may not have had to do with my nightly blessings. But, at least, it released me from the resentment and fear I held within me. I started to feel lighter. It helped me to move on and be active in health.
We must believe in the magic of our beings and what our minds can do. Our world is a reflection of our magical beings and our minds. Together, we are creating what we all want - heaven on earth - which is, actually, here already.
With stem cell research on its way, we know that very soon we will all have healthy bodies unless we block it with our stubborn minds.
We have to become even wiser, and we will. For an example: There is a saying that a glass is half empty or half full, depending on how you look at it. Well, we all know that one. But we cannot just say, okay so half full is how we should look at things. No. We have to go even further in our observation and realize that the glass is actually 100 percent full: 50 percent with water and 50 percent with air. Our minds have to become more sensitive than what it was in the past centuries and realize things in a deeper way - and they will. We will be aware of invisible threats and blessings: silent help and attacks we have not been aware of . Think of everything that comes to you as a blessing and everybody that comes to you as an angel. Then figure out why they are. By doing that, you will not miss the positive opportunity which is being presented to you.
So I say it again, let's believe in the magic of our beings. We are still in our embryonic period. One day, very soon, we will see ourselves living peacefully and having fun without sickness or violence. One day, we will see ourselves travel to other planets as well. It will probably be as casual as going across the Atlantic.
Though, for myself, I think I'd rather stay at home! I love this planet and the culture and the civilization we built here in so many centuries. I would never be bored with my life on earth. There are so many more good times we can have. Let's look forward to it, and not destroy our future, by holding on to our fear and confusion. That's old hat now.
Power to us people. Let's stay well and have lots of fun. Let's keep dancing together. I love you!
yoko ono, NYC, June 12th '05
As Mr. Spock would say, " Fascinating ..."
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