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Post by thefly on Jun 6, 2006 17:16:22 GMT -5
I've always wondered, people say that the looks of Paul were easily copied, but I've wondered, with all this speculation about how Bill had surgery, and there was a look alike contest -- what about sounds like?
What are the odds that Bill would be an EXACT match to Paul? I don't think they would have hired a vocal coach just for a few months, that takes work. And I don't think also that there were any "tapes" or saved vocals that McCartney had.
I don't buy the whole "PID" because it doesn't seem relevant that Bill would be an EXACT match to sound like McCartney.
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Darthfaul
Hard Day's Night 
Paul twisted by the dark side of The Force
Posts: 17
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Post by Darthfaul on Jun 6, 2006 18:28:01 GMT -5
Good point, thefly.
But I don't think the vocals in "Paperback Writer" and "Let It Be" are matched.
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Post by revolver on Jun 6, 2006 19:05:54 GMT -5
The vocals really aren't "exactly" the same. Compare Bill's vocals on The White Album to Paul's on Revolver or Rubber Soul. Quite a bit different, IMO. By the time of the WA, they were letting Bill sing more in his natural voice, instead of just trying to imitate Paul (IMO). Even Blackbird is noticably different from Yesterday vocally.
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Post by eyesbleed on Jun 6, 2006 19:23:14 GMT -5
yes, there are differences in the 2 voices.
After a while, it gets easier to tell the difference once ya know what to listen for.
It's always been a lot easier for me to tell the difference visually, but eventually, I've gotten better at picking out Bills voice.
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Post by JoJo on Jun 6, 2006 20:35:48 GMT -5
Who is this? www.jojoplace.org/Shoebox/Hey_Jude_Unknown_Take.mp3IMO, the voice doesn't sound like the final version, or many of the numbered takes out there. This one continues to bug me.. Maybe it won't seem odd to some, or sound out of place, and perhaps it's an early take, hence it's moniker "unknown take", in a collection of takes that are carefully cataloged. (White Album Sessions, disk 3) |
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Post by TotalInformation on Jun 6, 2006 21:35:04 GMT -5
The sinister Dr. Richard Asher?
Faul trying to channel JPM's voice?
Is there a (purported) date for this unknown take?
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Post by Doc on Jun 6, 2006 21:52:11 GMT -5
THis sounds like, to me, the backing track used when the Beatles performed live on the David Frost Show. I can hear a second voice shadowing Wiliam thru parts of it, not quite all, but, funny, I just happened to listen to a version of it last night, and that sounds like the track I was hearing.
I think it is in fact William. The EQ has a mellowed, darkened quality to it. I realize that when William starts, it is one voice, but along the way, in the second verse I believe, the backing voice was audible to me but at a low level. The vocal sounds like the same one.
Now, if I am wrong, and it is Paul, then somehow the EQ is throwing off my ear.
Also it is in one channel when listening thru stereo headphones. Now, that could be so that the vocal only was audible on the monitors for them to sing by. I don't know. I know there are at least I think 3 edits of that famous moment. The others, as I remember, do not posess this doubled sound.
The one I have is on a DVD Beatles Chronology. "One", I believe. (There are two.)
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Post by revolver on Jun 6, 2006 23:09:31 GMT -5
Sounds like 100% BS to me. (Billy Shears)  |
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Post by DarkHorse on Jun 7, 2006 16:47:56 GMT -5
The British/Liverpool accent is evident in almost all of Paul's singing. It seems to disappear when Bill sings. This is an easy way to tell the difference.
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Post by JoJo on Jun 7, 2006 17:04:23 GMT -5
The Doc describes (no surprise) what I'm hearing very well.  It wasn't the beginning of this piece that got me, I was just in the kitchen cutting onions or something, not really listening closely, and when it got past the halfway point, I almost misfired with the knife when it hit me..I can only describe it as a voice that doesn't sound like the usual "Jude" voice. And yes I found myself thinking "holy sh*t, that's either JPM, or the best imitator ever!" That's all I can say, and it's just one man's opinion, I know many won't agree with me. To answer your question TI, there is no info about the date, or which take it was, as I said. |
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Post by TotalInformation on Jun 7, 2006 18:04:34 GMT -5
bootlegzone.com seems to think it's Take 1; recd. 29 July
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Post by JoJo on Jun 7, 2006 19:00:02 GMT -5
"Probably take one" is how the poster puts it, he may not be sure either. But perhaps it's an educated guess, and most likely a good one, dunno.
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Post by lili on Jun 8, 2006 7:47:15 GMT -5
Jo, I listened to it. I honestly couldn't hear anything that sounded like Paul. To me, it's all Bill/Faul. The only thing I can think of is that he was trying to emulate Paul. Therefore, there will be certain words or phrases that will sound very much like Paul. However, I myself didn't hear any in this song.  |
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Post by JoJo on Jun 8, 2006 11:46:30 GMT -5
No worries, and no need to be sorry. |
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Feb 24, 2009 15:07:51 GMT -5
Who is this? www.jojoplace.org/Shoebox/Hey_Jude_Unknown_Take.mp3IMO, the voice doesn't sound like the final version, or many of the numbered takes out there. This one continues to bug me.. Maybe it won't seem odd to some, or sound out of place, and perhaps it's an early take, hence it's moniker "unknown take", in a collection of takes that are carefully cataloged. (White Album Sessions, disk 3) I just stumbled across this, JoJo. I had never heard this version of Hey Jude before. Thanks for posting it! As far as the vocal goes... The unknown take never comes close to achieving the silky quality of the other takes I've heard. Specifically, the one that ended up as the single and the version heard on the Frost show. The unknown take is tinny and more throaty, but it doesn't seem like a conscious, stylistic decision. It just sounds like a different singer. |
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Post by overdude on Feb 25, 2009 0:45:33 GMT -5
Hey all..... Long time no see ~~
FYI JoJo (and anyone else interested)...
I just took a real close listen to this "unknown take" through headphones and I, too, heard a few interesting things that made my ears perk up. First off, I really like this take.... I like the smooth quality of the vocal, as well as the minor melodic variations that appear here, but not on the "final version" of the song. To me, this is definitely Bill/Faul/ImposterX, simply because this take really allows you to hear a good amount of training and polish that this particular singer has put into their voice or "style;"
JPM has always sounded much more like an untrained, just go-for-it and wail type of singer than the replacement(s) - BUT it does seem to sound more like JPM than the final version.
What was most interesting about this take to me, is that I noticed an almost "chipmunky" quality to the tone, especially in those parts where the notes are held and more vibrato is present (having the vocal track isolated in one channel seemed to make this quite apparent to my ears).... So, I did a little hands-on musical research and this is what I found:
I whipped out my trusty little cheapo keyboard to see if there were any differences in pitch between the two posted versions; meaning, if the unknown take was a bit higher, then that would indicate the track had been sped up a bit, hence the "chipmunky" qualities I mentioned above.
Well, sure enough, the Frost version is spot on in the key of F (as all musicians who play this song know is the Hey Jude key); but, the unknown take is actually at a pitch that is just a few semi-tones higher than the Frost version.... So the track was definitely sped up... manipulated in some way, either on purpose in the studio, or somewhere else down the line, possibly from a vinyl-to-digital conversion, or any other number of transfers or conversions that took place some time before this version made it into JoJo's collection.
If I had to form some sort of conclusion, I would say that the Beatles and/or George Martin discovered that raising the pitch of Bill's voice made it sound more like JPM's and considered using this method as a way to more easily pass Bill off as the real JPM; but, after more closely scrutinizing the end result, discovered the same "chipmunky" qualities that I heard, and felt that the trickery would be to obvious to a more discerning ear...
Hence, why this take - although a really great one for the first half of the song - was rejected in the end.
Just my two cents on this, yet another, interesting gem hiding in JoJo's vast collection of Beatles relilcs.
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Post by JoJo on Feb 25, 2009 18:11:40 GMT -5
Hey Overdude, thanks for your thoughts. I could change the pitch in Audacity just for the fun of it, but I'm not sure (not musically trained) the correct number of semitones to downshift. If you have Audacity and want to give it a try, you can upload to jojoplace if you like..
IMO, in the Beatles Love version of Hey Jude, they brought to the foreground a vocal that sounds a lot like this unknown take, one minute before the song ends. (but not exactly it either)
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Post by overdude on Feb 26, 2009 5:22:36 GMT -5
Hey again ~~ Well JoJo, for the fun of it, I did what you suggested (used Adobe Audition instead of Audacity since I have it, and since I'm used to it), and went ahead and uploaded two files to JoJoPlace... Just a quick note regarding my previous post... My head was in the right place, but my terminology was a bit off. Semitones are actual half steps or full note differences (like up or down a fret on a guitar, or up or down from a white note to a black note on the keyboard [except between E and F, and B and C where there are no black notes between those keys]), while "cents" is the accepted term to use for pitch changes that are between semitones.... So what I meant to say was that the "unknown take" was a few cents higher than the Frost version. At any rate... After messing around a bit with the unknown take in Audition, I finally settled on the 50 cents mark as the amount of pitch difference between the two versions - which I found QUITE interesting, as I honestly didn't expect it to fall perfectly in the middle between F and F# - so I simply just lowered the "unknown take" version by that amount. Something else interesting that I discovered.... Just for kicks, I thought I'd try slowing the track down a bit as well to see if I could get it to match up perfectly with the Frost version (back in the Beatles' day, digital audio processing didn't exist, so the only way to raise the pitch of a recording was to speed up the tape; i.e. you couldn't have one without the other like you can today). Well, to try and make a long story short - I couldn't do it. No matter what amount I stretched the unknown version, it would never stay synched with the Frost version. The only reason I can come up with for this discrepancy is that the entire take must be different (I thought that the backing tracks, or at least the drum track would have been the same as the final version, but apparently they are not). This actually is more apparent with subsequent listenings of the "unknown" version, as one can hear that the tempo of that take actually starts to noticeably - and steadily - increase somewhere around the middle of the track. This is probably far too much analysis for such an insignificant "clue" or "artifact," but since I did the work, I figured I'd make my findings available for all to review and/or critique.... So, there are two versions uploaded to JoJoPlace: One that is simply shifted down by 50 cents, and another that is both shifted down, and stretched to a time that is more consistent with the Frost version. If anyone wants to check them out, they can be found here: www.jojoplace.org/uploads/Hey_Jude_Unknown_Take_Down50cents1.mp3 and www.jojoplace.org/uploads/Hey_Jude_Unknown_Take_Down50cents_TimeShifted1.mp3I guess that's about it for now... Let me know what you think about all this JoJo if you have the time and feel like posting your thoughts. |
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Post by JoJo on Feb 26, 2009 18:04:27 GMT -5
I appreciate your efforts Overdude, thanks very much. I guess I can agree that the slowed down version sounds a bit more like the finished (and all the other bootlegs out there) version than it did as is. Eh, it must have been early, and not just based on the theory that it was early fiddling about with a vocal replacement. More of George's guitar, probably before "Paul" told him he didn't want his contributions so much. (see Sir Paul's remarks in Anthology) No centered lead vocal, strictly in the left channel, so no or little mixing.
I'll always kinda like this version the best..
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Post by nurktwins on Mar 1, 2009 0:59:57 GMT -5
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peacec
Hard Day's Night
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Post by peacec on May 21, 2009 12:32:01 GMT -5
for REAL... he sounds so much like Faul. a bit creepy, especially considering he's been dead for 34 years. also, the slowed down version of the Unknown sounds the most like the final, i would agree. interesting the things you're able to uncover now a days. |
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Post by 8749 on May 21, 2009 19:24:54 GMT -5
It sounds like a butched-up version of Tina Turner, which was probably an early Faul, trying to be cool.
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svn
Hard Day's Night
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Post by svn on Jun 8, 2009 18:13:46 GMT -5
Even though I don't agree that Paul's voice changed particularly dramatically during his time in The Beatles, even if there was a difference - it's hardly conclusive evidence.
Singers often change vocal styles as they progress through their careers and age. It's not particularly uncommon.
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Post by Doc on Jun 9, 2009 0:34:11 GMT -5
SOunds a lot like William, yes, tone and fluid high notes, etc. Itz real nice, beautiful song, sweet mix, great trax.... very nice |
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Post by 8749 on Jun 10, 2009 15:03:11 GMT -5
It has already been discussed on this board that George Martin "fiddled" with Faul's voice--speeded it up--to make it sound higher and thinner and, therefore, more like Paul's. Faul's voice IS "thicker" and right from the beginning, he had a strange accent that I haven't been able to identify.
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It wasn't the beginning of this piece that got me, I was just in the kitchen cutting onions or something, not really listening closely, and when it got past the halfway point, I almost misfired with the knife when it hit me..I can only describe it as a voice that doesn't sound like the usual "Jude" voice. And yes I found myself thinking "holy sh*t, that's either JPM, or the best imitator ever!" 