|
|
Post by sydissane on Mar 24, 2005 18:21:53 GMT -5
www.streamload.com/eccopurda/syd%20faul.jpgLink above. Song writing genius Syd Barrett in 1966 shortly before Pepper/Piper albums are recorded at same time at Abbey Road. Syd becomes ill ,disappears and is replaced in winter/spring of '68. (edit) Undergoes drastic physical changes to the point where former friends/bandmates no longer recognize him. The moustache was photoshopped in. Block out the right side of his face.
|
|
|
|
Post by JoJo on Mar 24, 2005 19:54:43 GMT -5
I must confess I'm not real familiar with his look either before or after, although I have some rough quality music videos. But if you wish to pursue this, and it does sound interesting, maybe you could present some more pics?  Btw, welcome Sidissane! |
|
|
|
Post by DarkHorse on Mar 24, 2005 20:12:54 GMT -5
But if you wish to pursue this, and it does sound interesting, maybe you could present some more pics? He/she is not gonna pursue it. They are just trying to prove that Paul went through these same changes(and was not replaced by a double) by comparing Syd Barret's changes.  |
|
|
|
Post by sydissane on Mar 24, 2005 21:00:50 GMT -5
He/she is not gonna pursue it. They are just trying to prove that Paul went through these same changes(and was not replaced by a double) by comparing Syd Barret's changes.  I am sorry if I did not go into much detail in my presentation. I was merely pointing out what I thought was Syd's very strong resemblance to Paul/Faul, at least in that particular photo. It is very difficult to find any two pics of Syd where he looks exactly the same, but the eyes and basic facial features are very close. I was wondering if anyone else saw it? Like most everyone else here, I am interested in the finer details of how they pulled it off. I also noticed a lack of Floyd posts here, aside from Jojo's. Pink Floyd's history is full of references to the Beatles. The fact that they were recording their first album alongside the Beatles at Abbey Road while using a Beatles engineer is just one item. Paul in no way changed physically in the drastic way that Syd did. With Paul we are talking some minor nip and tucks. Syd went from being a long haired skinny man to a 200 pound bald headed man . It is really difficult to tell that it is the same person, and if no one told you before hand, you would never know. What I am suggesting is that Barrett may have played a part in the transitional stage, both in the song writing and the double aspects. |
|
|
|
Post by sydissane on Mar 24, 2005 21:03:07 GMT -5
I must confess I'm not real familiar with his look either before or after, although I have some rough quality music videos. But if you wish to pursue this, and it does sound interesting, maybe you could present some more pics? Btw, welcome Sidissane! Will try to do so, Jojo, as time and health permit. Thank you very much for the warm welcome!!  |
|
|
|
Post by JoJo on Mar 24, 2005 21:41:45 GMT -5
Well I and most here are not likely to be convinced by a drastically different Syd Barrett being explained by rich food or drug intake as an example of someone who changes in appearance, but is in fact the same guy. I don't think SIS is going there, JMO.
I think you are hinting at a theory of him making a lateral move over to the Beatles as either a mystery vocalist, or perhaps Bill himself? Maybe on the first, but I doubt very much the second.
I'll admit Syd Barrett is shrowded in mystery, there's a story here, and details are sadly lacking. If he's an area of expertise for you, then have at it.
|
|
|
|
Post by revolver on Mar 24, 2005 21:54:36 GMT -5
I think it's unlikely they would have chosen a well-known musician to replace Paul. I'm sure orchestrating the replacement was difficult enough without adding another layer of complexity to the operation.  |
|
|
|
Post by sydissane on Mar 24, 2005 22:08:42 GMT -5
I am thinking that it was a lateral move, but it was a temporary one, to help out with "Pepper" and perhaps some of the photo shoots while Bill was still being prepared.I have to confess that I am not real informed on the timelines, but we are basically talking 66-67 and more specifically the period surrounding the recording of 'Pepper'. I am not sure about the singing, though it is possible. Lennon's "What s the Real Mary Jane?" sounds like Barrett and on one song on Barrett's solo album ,"The Madcap Laughs", he sounds alot like Ringo on the song "Long Gone". Though he did have his own distinctive voice, he was certainly capable of mimicking, especially in harmonies.
But no, I do not believe he was/is Bill. At least not in the permenant sense.
|
|
|
|
Post by sydissane on Mar 24, 2005 22:21:13 GMT -5
I think it's unlikely they would have chosen a well-known musician to replace Paul. I'm sure orchestrating the replacement was difficult enough without adding another layer of complexity to the operation. Syd was not famous at that time. Denny Laine was . Syd was known mostly to people like Clapton, Townshend, Bowie, and the Beatles, who would see his group perform in a small club (Joe Boyd's UFO club). So, it was more or less the avante garde crowd and the psychedelic club crowd who knew of him. Syd was gone before the Piper album came out and before "See Emily Play" hit number 5 on the UK charts. Pink Floyd, the name, did indeed become huge, but even now, outside of the Floyd fans, most people would know Denny Laine's name before Barretts. |
|
|
|
Post by southpaw on Mar 25, 2005 5:05:59 GMT -5
Syd wrote, played lead, sang on all pink floyd early singles,(Arnold lane,see emily play etc.) "piper at the gates of dawn" and one track on "saucerful of secrets"
Syds disovling from the group and gilmore taking over happens to coincide with Brian wilsons breakdown
Around april 1967
There is a bootleg of Syd singing a song called "what a shame mary jane"? with none other than the beatles
Its definatly Syd and I think I may hear JL also.
I'll have to track down that file.
I think these musicians knew JPM
preatty scary situation for the two to be in
Its well documented that both men spent time with both pauls
|
|
|
|
Post by JoJo on Mar 27, 2005 18:45:09 GMT -5
Here it is: www.jojoplace.org/Shoebox/Whats_The_New_Mary_Jane.wmaActually it's called "What's the New Mary Jane". Seems almost like a Ringoism, like instead of saying "what's new Mary Jane" or even "who's the new Mary Jane". Maybe that last one would have been a little too on the nose? 27 seconds longer than the Anthology version, don't know if that means anything. A couple of interesting lines: She having all the ways good contacts,
she making with Apple an contract. One of the Apple artists maybe? I don't think it's some fictional girl made up out of whole cloth, this a true story, but told obliquely. (what else is new) The entire lyrics: She looks as an African queen,
she eating twelve chapattis and cream,
she tastes as Mongolian lamb,
she coming from out of Bahran.
What a shame Mary Jane
had a pain at the party.
What a shame Mary Jane.
What a shame Mary Jane
had a pain at the party.
She like to be married with Yeti,
he grooving such cooky spaghetti,
she jumping as Mexican bean
to make that her body more thin.
What a shame Mary Jane
had a pain at the party.
What a shame Mary Jane.
What a shame Mary Jane
had a pain at the party.
She catch Patagonian pancake
with that one a gin party makes.
She having all the ways good contacts,
she making with Apple an contract.
What a shame Mary Jane
had a pain at the party.
What a shame Mary Jane.
What a shame Mary Jane
had a pain at the party.
All together now:
What a shame Mary Jane
had a pain at the party.
What a shame Mary Jane.
What a shame Mary Jane
had a pain at the party.
She looks as an African queen,
she tastes as Mongolian lamb.
What a shame Mary Jane
had a pain at the party.
What a shame Mary Jane.
What a shame Mary Jane
had a pain at the party.
What a shame Mary Jane
had a pain at the party.
What a shame Mary Jane.
What a shame Mary Jane
had a pain at the party. |
|
|
|
Post by sydissane on Mar 28, 2005 2:15:57 GMT -5
I am not sure about 'Jane' but it has a Barret-like side to it... I just read a review of the White Album in which the critic states that it was heavily rumoured that "Cry Baby Cry" was heavily influenced by Barrett, which sounds about right to me.
Some trivia: John met Yoko at a Barrett/Floyd concert.
Peter Bown was promoting the band at EMI.
The producer, Norman Smith, was George Martin's assistant/engineer .
Barrett was replaced by David Gilmore, who happens to be the guitarist on Faul's "Run,Devil,Run" album as well as the guitarist at Faul's Cavaran concert.
Faul and Linda were among the group of roadies and `others interviewed for the background voices on Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" album. (their voices were later dropped from the released version)
JPM or Faul on Barrett/Floyd during the Piper/Pepper days:
"this is the future of music.."
and to George Martin and the other Beatles at a Pepper session: "they are going to steal our thunder."
Southpaw: Re: Brian Wilson: JPM actually contributes to the recording of "Vegetables" in '66. (he's the crunching them on the recording)
When Faul tries to visit Brian in later times, Brian hides in his shed and refuses to see him.
I know what you mean.
|
|
|
|
Post by TotalInformation on Mar 28, 2005 2:40:17 GMT -5
John was sent to his first meeting with Yoko at the Indica Gallery on Nov. 9 1966.
A faux Paul (not necessarily THE Faux PAUL) was "dressed like an Arab) in a hood wearing a mustache in a very dark room at a Floyd show in late Oct., reported by Londont Times.
This is the first appearance of PAUL MCCARTNEY in several weeks.
There are conflicting reports as to Yoko's attendance at the event. Faux PAUL told Howard Stern a few years a go Yoko tried to sink into him first before John.
What is your source that it was JPM at the Vega-tables session in 66? And the Wilson hid from Faux PAUL? I know Wilson's infamous SMiLE breakdown occurred just when Faux PAUL went out to L.A. to meet the Beach Boys and others, but I thought this is when the Vega-tables session was, and that it was aux-PAUL celery-crunching on that track. Would like to hear more on your sources here.
(I've read of other celebs fleeing Faux PAUL.)
|
|
|
|
Post by TotalInformation on Mar 28, 2005 2:41:16 GMT -5
Beyond the obvious cannabis reference, could "Mary Jane" be Linda Eastman?
|
|
|
|
Post by sydissane on Mar 28, 2005 4:53:11 GMT -5
Good question! (Linda) Or Jane Astor?
Regarding John meeting Yoko in '66, you are correct.
The concert was an all night affair that featured many artists *including Yoko, with Pink Floyd topping the bill. I have the film and John and Yoko are there, but never together. They never connected that night because John was T@@@@ing and had to leave :
Technicolor Dream (April 1967)
April 28-30, 1967 14-Hour Technicolor Dream
"Over fourty artists, including Pink Floyd, Yoko Ono and AMM, performed. The Beatles did not record on any of these dates. Lennon was tripping with John Dunbar at home on the 29th when he decided to go to the show after seeing a television report .." (Miles' Diary)
Regarding "Vegetables", it is a well documented fact among the "Smile" fans. Wilson finally did release the full "Smile"
album to critical acclaim last fall, and there are frequent references to the Veggie-munching JPM (?) on the '66 recording in the reviews. Wilson had his "breakdown" after that, and I will try to find more sources about Faul's visit and Brian's refusal to see him. I think that happened years after '66.
I believe I read it in Rolling Stone as well as other media.
Interesting what you stated about other artists hiding.
Any feelings this way or that about the linked photo I posted above? There are others from that period where there I see simular facial and body simularities. After that period it appears like Syd too was replaced (before he was replaced in the public eye by Faul's friend Dave Gilmore. Weird.
|
|
|
|
Post by eyesbleed on Mar 28, 2005 8:20:24 GMT -5
Ya... huge "Smile" fan here.... Faul's on the original track "Vegetables".
I would also like to hear more about any later visits when Brian's hiding from him.
One of the Beach Boys documentaries has a fair amount of footage of Brians B-day party that Faul & Linda attended. This must've been around the time he recorded Vegetables. I see BW's b-day is June 20th, so this would have to be 1967.
Sorry.... I can't recall the exact name of the documentary.
Thanks for the info sydissane... I wasn't aware of all of those ties between The Beatles & Floyd.
(the only problem I have with the new Smile is that the song "She's Going bald" didn't make the cut)
|
|
|
|
Post by TotalInformation on Mar 28, 2005 9:12:52 GMT -5
Faux-PAUL and Mal Evans visited the Beach Boys and others in 1967 *before* Pepper was released (which was around late May or June 1); and played them advance-copy tapes of Pepper.
That home-movie 30-min docu covers this trip to the US as well as the Africa trip in late 66.
|
|
|
|
Post by sydissane on Mar 29, 2005 15:56:03 GMT -5
You are very welcome, Eyesbleed. However I feel now that my theory about Syd was a bit wacky and probably a way to compensate for my own feelings of sadness about what happened to him. I totally agree with you on "Going Bald" but it's nice to have it anyway! Good for Brian! |
|
|
|
Post by eyesbleed on Mar 29, 2005 18:43:58 GMT -5
You are very welcome, Eyesbleed. However I feel now that my theory about Syd was a bit wacky and probably a way to compensate for my own feelings of sadness about what happened to him. Well,... that may be true........ but it's still an interesting theory that hasn't been brought up before.  |
|
I am sorry if I did not go into much detail in my presentation. I was merely pointing out what I thought was Syd's very strong resemblance to Paul/Faul, at least in that particular photo. It is very difficult to find any two pics of Syd where he looks exactly the same, but the eyes and basic facial features are very close. I was wondering if anyone else saw it? 
