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Post by kazu on Jul 30, 2004 4:27:18 GMT -5
Ok. Think about what you said. Paul's eyes were not as dark as George? Also the DVD is more recent and could have been fiddled with. I will go get the DVD and the VHS tape.
So then if Paul's eyes are not as dark as George and Hazel eyes may look brown or greeninsh depending on the lightin, then is it completely impossible for a person with Hazel eyes to have them appear brown in room lighting and more green in outdoor sunlight lighting like the scene with the tank?
I am not talking about Paul in particular here, but if someone had hazel eyes, is it possible. Answer that question
Give me a couple of days to get the tape and the DVD for comparison.
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Post by kazu on Jul 30, 2004 4:45:57 GMT -5
Hazel is not so broad as to cross into green, I'll quote someone from another thread: Also, dictionary.com mentions: 2. Of a light brown color, like the hazelnut. ``Thou hast hazel eyes.'' --Shak. Maybe that's the source, Shakespearian writings? Who knows? Because it illustrates the dictionary definition quite closely, that's why i put up the contact lens still. You and others may feel vague and uncertain about the definition of "hazel", I submit that the people in the business of selling contact lenses are not.. The fact that they do their business on the web is not an isue, they still are subject to all same the rules and regulations as other opticians. A dictionary definition is for better understanding and does not encompase the whole of reality. The definition of hazel you use is in reference to the color known as hazel. The actual definition of hazel eyes is not the definition of the color. It refers to a quality of eyes that seem to change depending on lighting (And yes it includes green!) Contact lenses are an illusion. I have colored contact lenses. I have spoken to my optometrist about them. The only reason hazel works for people is because it adds more color to whatever color your eye already is. Hence, some people with hazel colored contact lenses will appear more brown, blue or green. It is not accurate to show one person's eye color with hazel contacts and say that is what hazel looks like. The color contact image of hazel looks lothing like the color of real hazel eyes in the link I have provided. Not saying Paul is alive, just debating the hazel issue. Here is a ambiant light example of Hazel eyes. www.fotosearch.com/RBL126/bg_16It looks kind of brown to me. Not as dark as george. This is the color I see in Paul. If you wonder why his eyes seem more greenrecently. go look at my site paulisnotdead.com. I am not meaning to be argumentative, but let's say that regardless of Paul being replaced or not, focusing on the HELP movie only. I see Paul with Hazel eyes. ( notice that whenever I post a URL after a quote, the URL displays twice. How can I fix that?)
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Post by DarkHorse on Jul 30, 2004 5:42:40 GMT -5
John's eyes are hazel. Do they look the same color as Paul's to you?
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Post by kazu on Jul 30, 2004 12:33:40 GMT -5
Hi DarkHorse. I am not sure who you are asking, but I used to think that John's eyes were darker, but I have seen images of John where his eyes actually seemed blueish. I have to go find them. But interesting point, because the same media sources that say Paul's eyes are brown say John's eyes are brown. Can you show me where it says John's eyes are hazel? I have never seen that before. Also this could be a matter of interpretation. Maybe I see greenish where others see brown. My car is greenish. I think it is green, but other people say it is blue. In direct sunlight, it seems more blue. In shade it seems green. Strange car I have.
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Post by matchbox on Jul 30, 2004 15:28:11 GMT -5
I think that the two pictures posted previously by myself and Red Lion fit the description of hazel eyes compared to the link posted by kazu. If the example posted earlier of green and hazel eyes were actually pictures of contact lenses, I don't think that that is a very accurate example.
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Post by matchbox on Jul 30, 2004 15:52:47 GMT -5
I imported the photo above (on the left) into Photoshop to make it less yellow, and get a more natural skin tone. (Please don't get mad. I just wanted to see it less yellow). I don't know if it would be considered more accurate. Just less yellow. [EDIT] I'm adding the original, since this post started a new page.[/edit]
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Post by DarkHorse on Jul 30, 2004 18:25:08 GMT -5
Those eyes look brown to me.
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Post by matchbox on Jul 30, 2004 18:34:15 GMT -5
I "enhanced" Red Lion's photo. I'll state again that this is just an attempt at getting as more natural skin tone. (Not proof of anything)
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Post by DarkHorse on Jul 30, 2004 19:48:19 GMT -5
I got a little lost in all of this. What are we trying to prove?
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Post by JoJo on Jul 30, 2004 20:30:33 GMT -5
I'm confused somewhat, Kazu's link to the the web optician shows them advertising hazel eyes. The hazel they show is brown, light or otherwise, it's a varation of brown. Funny you mention somethig that I'm an expert at, LOL. Car color is something I have to get right, it's one of a few facts I have to note before slipping a greeting card under someone's windshield. (oh boy now you all you car owners hate me, haha) Yes, the way car companies do green is very subtle, but as long as it's daylight, the distiction can be made. The trick is to not look directly at it, you have to look at a sharp angle, the fact that it's green is obvious. (fyi) Yes but.... they are selling that in their web page because that is the way hazel is defined. Just because in reality, you won't really get those results doesn't mitigate the fact that the light brown color we see there isn't hazel. Thought I had a DVD quality version of Help, whoops sorry I don't. Just a lousy vcd version. Thought it would be nice to have, so... I ordered one. Agreed... I think it was something about this: being a little far afield of this:
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Post by matchbox on Jul 30, 2004 21:02:31 GMT -5
It's interesting what happens when you make Faul's skin as yellow as Paul's
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Post by DarkHorse on Jul 30, 2004 21:08:19 GMT -5
MB, you trying so hard to make it work.
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Post by kazu on Jul 30, 2004 21:10:09 GMT -5
Ah. Photo imaging and color is my area. I have done manual photo lab developing and retouching for years now. This is why I have to ask the question if everyone sees the same thing. Many models and publications people have different interpretations of the same color. I am asian. I have brown eyes. I can't have anythnig but brown eyes. Many european eyes that are distinguished as brown are lighter than asian eyes. This is because the brown in their eyes are actually a mix of blue, brown, gray and yellowy-brown or green. I mean think of how you actually get the color brown. Then depending on the lighting (Not the type of light or how bright, but the color in the light) one or more of the colors in your eyes may reflect back. I am sure this can apply to car color also.
Also, in reference to enhancing color in an image. I have no problem with it because I can ususally tell be looking at the image what colors may be too saturated or missing. You did a good job considering this is a low res image of big dots and no smooth blends.
So then, to conclude, I don't see brown. But I can understand why others do see brown. So then I guess my point is moot.
In conclusion, I just want to say that i would not try to say PIA because of eye color. I am just trying to see if the eye color before 67 and after are the same. I think they are in most images. So then all that says is that if PID, then the double has a similar eye color. That's not hard to fathom.
BTW, the image on the botton with smoky greenish eyes with hints of brown towards the pupil. That's the color I saw in the HELP video in the scene with the tank.
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Post by DarkHorse on Jul 30, 2004 21:14:55 GMT -5
Hazel is a rare color I see only occasionally on people. JP's are regular brown to me, not dark brown or black, but just regular brown.
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Post by JoJo on Jul 30, 2004 21:18:13 GMT -5
It's interesting what happens when you make Faul's skin as yellow as Paul's Gradually changing the hue from one post to the next? Cmon now, not playing fair and you know it. The makers of Anthology didn't feel it was necessary, why on earth do you Matchbox?
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Post by matchbox on Jul 30, 2004 21:28:07 GMT -5
MB, you trying so hard to make it work. No need to frown. I was trying to show (IMO) a more fair comparison. The skin tones in the 2 pics JoJo posted were not even in the same ballpark. I'm trying to be fair and honest here. I made it clear that I changed the color in the new pics I posted in an attempt to make them look more natural. That's all. I feel like I'm always walking on eggshells here. Are you interested in finding 'THE' truth. Or are you only interested in 'YOUR' truth. If I'm not welcome to post things here that I believe are relevent to the PID/PWR/PIA debate, I wil cease doing so. No sweat.
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Post by kazu on Jul 30, 2004 21:31:46 GMT -5
I agree that the appearance of the 2 eyes are not the same color. But I also know that kodak introduced a new color film and processing method in 1965 or 66. And I have seen what that kind of thing can do to change color. This is another reason i want to go back to the HELP movie. At least we can determine how they processed that. We can't determine how a series of random color photos were processed and even retouched for appearance (Like the huge pupil images im many old Beatle publicity images. That's a really old photo lab trick to make people look friendlier and male rock stars more attractive to girls). After 67, you don't see the Beatles ni shots like that. Probably because Brian always arranged it, but was not there anymore. This is another reason Paul looks more sinister immediately after 67. Teenie-weenie pupils. I don't think these shots have had the pupil-job. I think the image was taken in room lighting and the green-eyed image was taken in high lighting.
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Post by matchbox on Jul 30, 2004 21:32:53 GMT -5
Gradually changing the hue from one post to the next? Cmon now, not playing fair and you know it. The makers of Anthology didn't feel it was necessary, why on earth do you Matchbox? I have been completely honest about everything I have ever posted here. Do you think it is more valid to show one example where the skin color is natural, and one that is very yellowed to show how the eyes don't match?
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Post by JoJo on Jul 30, 2004 21:36:52 GMT -5
Yes I follow your reasoning... But the double didn't have the same eye color, or this video was trying to tell us that. The video is lingers on body parts, eyes, ears, nose, not just Paul, all the rest. That an interpretation I know. Like this? You're describing the above quite well, but is it the same?
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Post by JoJo on Jul 30, 2004 21:41:38 GMT -5
You need a thicker skin dude, sorry. If you want to change the hue, you are cheating. If you do a simple screen grap from the "official" record, which is what I did, then fine.
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Post by matchbox on Jul 30, 2004 21:44:37 GMT -5
You need a thicker skin dude, sorry. If you want to change the hue, you are cheating. If you do a simple screen grap from the "official" record, which is what I did, then fine. Alrighty then.
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Post by JoJo on Jul 30, 2004 21:46:03 GMT -5
Didn't say you weren't "honest". Said it wasn't fair to force the results. I didn't "force" anything, what you see is what they put out for public consumption.
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Post by eyesbleed on Jul 30, 2004 22:31:26 GMT -5
This is another reason Paul looks more sinister immediately after 67.. Beatle-Bill's eyes are closer together than JPM's. And that's something that can't be easily altered like eye color. The JPM personality was also gone. Well this certainly has been a busy thread today. But I don't get the point of all the work. Even if ya could, somehow, show that JPM & Bill had the same color eyes; what would the point of that be?? I sat down this evening & watched Help dvd thru. It's hard to believe that it's been almost 40 yrs since I last watched this silly movie! Anyway, I froze a few scenes thru the movie & JPM's eyes look very brown to me, even in the one scene when they seemed a little lighter..... but those eyes are brown... this dvd has a very clear picture. I don't see any reason why they'd tamper with the eye color, coz that's pretty minor compaired to the other physical differences. If "they" were gonna do something like that, they'd stretch the head shape.
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Post by JoJo on Jul 31, 2004 10:01:51 GMT -5
Eh, just another day at the office, no biggie.. Probably nothing, this was a side trip that got off the main road way too far.
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Post by DarkHorse on Jul 31, 2004 13:00:05 GMT -5
Are you interested in finding 'THE' truth. Or are you only interested in 'YOUR' truth. I am interested in finding THE truth and I believe I found it....a long time ago. ;D Being as objective as possible is what led me to this truth. That's how I see it and there's nothing that can change that. Not because I am being stubborn, but because I haven't seen any evidence supporting PIA that even compares to the evidence supporting PID. It's crystal clear.
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