JPM's Rock And Roll Voice

[LOVELYRITA]

I was in the car and heard on the oldies station "She's A Woman" and reminded me that the real JPM had a rock and roll voice. Also heard in Long Tall Sally, I'm Down....

Now that's something distinctly JPM. Bill does not have that kind of voice. Bill's "rock voice" was evident in Helter Skelter and IMHO is more disturbing to listen to because it seemed as though he was straining to hit those notes.

IMO JPM's rock and roll voice was unique to the early Beatle's recordings. Something that lacked in their later days. With no wonder with him being replaced...

For those who are newer to this forum, compare the vocals and see the differences.

[Jude]

lovelyrita said:

I was in the car and heard on the oldies station "She's A Woman" and reminded me that the real JPM had a rock and roll voice. Also heard in Long Tall Sally, I'm Down....

Now that's something distinctly JPM. Bill does not have that kind of voice. Bill's "rock voice" was evident in Helter Skelter and IMHO is more disturbing to listen to because it seemed as though he was straining to hit those notes.

IMO JPM's rock and roll voice was unique to the early Beatle's recordings. Something that lacked in their later days. With no wonder with him being replaced...

For those who are newer to this forum, compare the vocals and see the differences.

Bill's voice was straining...?

Uh...listen to Why Don't We Do It In The Road. That guy has an amazing vocal range in that song, hitting all sorts of crazy notes that Paul never, and possible could never hit. Again, let's just put Bill down and ignore how incredible musician and vocalist he is.

Also, being "new to the forum" doesn't mean anything. I've been listening to Beatles for years, and yet I only joined in June. I guess that makes me "uneducated" in the "truth" regarding Paul's so-called replacement.

[jarvitronics]

jude said:

Uh...listen to Why Don't We Do It In The Road.

Speaking of Why Don't We Do It In The Road . . .

In Dig A Pony, John says:

I dig a road hog
You can penetrate any place you go

Heh. Perverts.

-j

[revolver]

jude said:

lovelyrita said:

I was in the car and heard on the oldies station "She's A Woman" and reminded me that the real JPM had a rock and roll voice. Also heard in Long Tall Sally, I'm Down....

Now that's something distinctly JPM. Bill does not have that kind of voice. Bill's "rock voice" was evident in Helter Skelter and IMHO is more disturbing to listen to because it seemed as though he was straining to hit those notes.

IMO JPM's rock and roll voice was unique to the early Beatle's recordings. Something that lacked in their later days. With no wonder with him being replaced...

For those who are newer to this forum, compare the vocals and see the differences.

Bill's voice was straining...?

Uh...listen to Why Don't We Do It In The Road. That guy has an amazing vocal range in that song, hitting all sorts of crazy notes that Paul never, and possible could never hit. Again, let's just put Bill down and ignore how incredible musician and vocalist he is.

Also, being "new to the forum" doesn't mean anything. I've been listening to Beatles for years, and yet I only joined in June. I guess that makes me "uneducated" in the "truth" regarding Paul's so-called replacement.

Is Bill a better singer in your mind, or the same singer? Can't have it both ways. I think there's no question they had quite different singing voices. It's easier to tell their singing voices apart than many of their photos.

[CoconutFudge]

Interesting, I always think that Faul seems to have a stronger higher range in his songs. That said, I don't think EITHER ONE is better than the other; they're both quite talented men, but their voices are distinctively different. Not necessarily in a bad way, but just in a... different way. I am highly inarticulate. Boo to me!

jarvitronics said:

Speaking of Why Don't We Do It In The Road . . .

In Dig A Pony, John says:

I dig a road hog
You can penetrate any place you go

Heh. Perverts.

-j

This made me laugh so, so, so, so, so hard. I love you.

[skyward]

coconutfudge said:

... That said, I don't think EITHER ONE is better than the other; they're both quite talented men, but their voices are distinctively different. Not necessarily in a bad way, but just in a... different way. I am highly inarticulate. Boo to me!

You would have to say that Faul is probably the greatest 'cover band, or act' of all-time, assuming PID or PWR. His live performance of Golden Slumbers at Montserrat in 1997 was amazing and that has some 'rumbling' lines in it, although that wouldn't exactly be a cover since it is his, presumably, own vocals on Abbey Road.

I understand the feeling that JPM has a more polished R&R sound, but I think Faul was pretty good with the heavier sound, too. It's funny how you wonder if you should look at Faul as being some sort of sinister, villainous mastermind or just a mixed up opportunist who was persuaded to join the gang in order to keep the Beatles 'magic' alive for the sake of the fans.

[CoconutFudge]

skyward said:

It's funny how you wonder if you should look at Faul as being some sort of sinister, villainous mastermind or just a mixed up opportunist who was persuaded to join the gang in order to keep the Beatles 'magic' alive for the sake of the fans.

Agreed! I often wonder the same thing. I sometimes really WANT to dislike Faul, but it's difficult when he's talented and really just took up on such a fantastic (relatively speaking!) opportunity. Thank goodness you're able to say exactly what I'm thinking in such a fantastic way! ;D

[mindgames]

loving on Faul in this thread are we? All I know is that when I dusted off my Band on the run Vinyl it sounded like 2 different people I only listened to the side with Band on the run but it sounded like a different person was singing Let it roll (whatever the name of that song is). My favorite Faul song is don't say goodnight.

[mommybird]

I understand the feeling that JPM has a more polished R&R sound, but I think Faul was pretty good with the heavier sound, too. It's funny how you wonder if you should look at Faul as being some sort of sinister, villainous mastermind or just a mixed up opportunist who was persuaded to join the gang in order to keep the Beatles 'magic' alive for the sake of the fans.

That's why finding out the truth is so important. We really don't know how Faul was picked for this.
I'm beginning to think that we should examine his solo work more closely.

[LOVELYRITA]

JPM had a deeper vocal range, while Faul was higher.

But what I was trying to say, but obviously it didn't translate too well, was that JPM's rock and roll voice had a certain nuance to it that was clearly his own sound. Faul's rock and roll voice is not the same as JPM's and comparing the pre 1966 rock and roll Paul, is one specific voice...and the post 1966 rock and roll voice is obviously different.

I'm not a big fan of Bill's music, there were a couple I could listen to, but I was not and am not a fan of the stuff. Not saying that he was the worst thing they could find...he's just not my cup of tea. That's my opinion.

For those who love Bill's music, that's great, but I won't waste my time or money on it as I had in the distant past. That's just me.

I prefer JPM's voice.

[mommybird]

I have to agree with you. By 1966, Paul had a quaver in his voice. Whether it was stress/ drug use/ illness or all of the above, who knows ? I can tell when Bill/ & the other vocal imitators moved in because their voices were too controlled, too smooth.
That's why I feel that the only selection on SPLHCB that probably is Paul is " She's Leaving Home". You can hear the sadness in his voice, the quaver. His voice sounds tired. Bill & the other vocal imitators never bothered to imitate that.
And I agree with you Rita, I prefer Paul's voice.
The only reason that I'm transcribing the Fireman 93 CD is with the hope that maybe there might be some clues on it.
When Bill goes off & makes his noises, I cringe inside.
But, I'm a trooper & I'll do what I can to help the cause...

[skyward]

mommybird said:

That's why I feel that the only selection on SPLHCB that probably is Paul is " She's Leaving Home". You can hear the sadness in his voice, the quaver. His voice sounds tired. Bill & the other vocal imitators never bothered to imitate that.

For reference:

She's Leaving Home - 2002 U.S. Tour



I don't want to start, or continue the trend of posting admirations for Faul, but 'Little Willow' is a really nice slow song on Flaming Pie.

[LOVELYRITA]

Bill is a talented man, no doubt, he seems to have a more refined voice because he speaks with head tones, rather than a "throaty" voice that JPM and John and George had. If Bill had proper training, he could have had an opera voice. There are moments throughout his career you can detect that. He has more "vibrato" in his voice than JPM had.

So for those who are big fans of Bill and his music, I didn't mean to say Faul/Bill was some horrible croaking toad, but that his voice is clearly different coming from a different "placement" in his head as opposed to a "throaty" voice.

Just want to clear that up and not cause any anger or dispute. They are unique, but they are not the same...

[mommybird]

Very well put, Rita.

[CoconutFudge]

I agree also--I don't necessarily love a bunch of Faul's music (I think it's because there's just so much pure cheese, especially in the 80s and early 90s, and I'm not too into that), but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think he had talent! Someone up there referred to it as "loving on Faul" and I don't think I'm really trying to "love on" anyone--I'm just saying what I think! But still, my main point is that you all are most certainly correct--there is a different flair to the voices of Faul and JPM for sure. Very easy to pick up on in so many songs.

[Jai Guru Deva]

If you'll go to this thread and listen to what I think is one of the better voice comparisons. See the 4th reply down where Faul singing, "Oh, Darling" and JPM singing "She's A Woman". You should hear exactly what LovelyRita is talking about. (Of course, JoJo has a whole bunch of other good sound and video files too.)

invanddis.proboards29.com/index.cgi?board=pidpix&action=display&thread=1111366345

[Doc]

lovelyrita said:

Bill is a talented man, no doubt, he seems to have a more refined voice because he speaks with head tones, rather than a "throaty" voice that JPM and John and George had. If Bill had proper training, he could have had an opera voice. There are moments throughout his career you can detect that. He has more "vibrato" in his voice than JPM had.

So for those who are big fans of Bill and his music, I didn't mean to say Faul/Bill was some horrible croaking toad, but that his voice is clearly different coming from a different "placement" in his head as opposed to a "throaty" voice.

Just want to clear that up and not cause any anger or dispute. They are unique, but they are not the same...

I think Paul sang more nasally, with a bit of air in the tone, and off the cords. Except when he did the Little Richard screaming style.

Bill does have a great head voice, a very smooth shift to head tones. Very evident in Chaos and Creation, the song "Certain Softness", very smooth, very even, no "break."

"Honey Pie"

"Can You Take Me Back"

"Too Much"

"Jenny Wren."

And, oh yes, "Here There and Everywhere."

What do I mean? Sir Paul sings that one?

Oh, well, yes, parts of it..........

Like when Deborah Kerr and Marni Nixon were in the studio, prerecording songs for "The King and I" movie------

Marni said in her biography:

"We worked it out where she sang the lower notes, and when it got to a certain word, or syllable, she pointed at me and I knew how to take over the phrase seamlessly, and no one could ever tell the difference....."

Or Bette Midler on her tour, or Kenny Rodgers on his tours....

Surrogate singing happens. And you don't even need a test tube. Just good EQ.







Of course I could be wrong. But it's a clever theory. Show biz is full of trickery, my friends.
And that's why we love it so..........because a good show must go on.

[Doc]

skyward said:

mommybird said:

That's why I feel that the only selection on SPLHCB that probably is Paul is " She's Leaving Home". You can hear the sadness in his voice, the quaver. His voice sounds tired. Bill & the other vocal imitators never bothered to imitate that.

For reference:

She's Leaving Home - 2002 U.S. Tour



I don't want to start, or continue the trend of posting admirations for Faul, but 'Little Willow' is a really nice slow song on Flaming Pie.

Well that's 100% proof for me. Sir Paul sang the original track for "She's Leaving Home."
It was not JPM originally. Sir Paul is using a little more vibrato and I think the tempo is a bit slower (fine with me) so the interpretation is a little different; but to me, that is the exact same set of vocal cords from 1967 Pepper; hence, Bill.

Kudos to Wix for recreating the string accompaniment perfectly and playing it so smoothly.

Nice nice job.

[mommybird]

Wow, that really shook me. I was pretty convinced that Paul sang She's Leaving Home !

[mommybird]

I just listened to it. I have to say that he has it close. But Doc, I have to disagree with you. His voice is very smooth, too smooth. I still think that it's Paul who sang it originally. For all we know, they could've done like you just posted. They could have had a demo by Paul, & used some of Bill's vocals to pull it all together. At the time of that concert, he had been impersonating Paul for 40 years... I'm sure that he has his "tricks'. He could've sat in the studio & listened to the original over & over while rehearsing the vocals.

Just my opinion, of course. You ARE the piano man, after all. I have great respect for your expertise.

I think that it would be epic if someone could put a wav. file of the 1967 version vs. the 2002 version. I would, but it is definitely NOT my forte.

[hope]

But wasn't this particular song (She's Leaving Home) inspired by a real incident which supposedly took place after Paul died?

[mommybird]

I tried researching it. Here is what I've come up with:

From the wikipedia:

(Sir )Paul McCartney:

“ John and I wrote 'She's Leaving Home' together. It was my inspiration. We'd seen a story in the newspaper about a young girl who'd left home and not been found, there were a lot of those at the time, and that was enough to give us a story line. So I started to get the lyrics: she slips out and leaves a note and then the parents wake up ... It was rather poignant. I like it as a song, and when I showed it to John, he added the long sustained notes, and one of the nice things about the structure of the song is that it stays on those chords endlessly. Before that period in our songwriting we would have changed chords but it stays on the C chord. It really holds you. It's a really nice little trick and I think it worked very well.


While I was showing that to John, he was doing the Greek chorus, the parents' view: 'We gave her most of our lives, we gave her everything money could buy.' I think that may have been in the runaway story, it might have been a quote from the parents. Then there's the famous little line about a man from the motor trade; people have since said that was Terry Doran, who was a friend who worked in a car showroom, but it was just fiction, like the sea captain in "Yellow Submarine", they weren't real people.[1]
”

The newspaper story McCartney mentioned was from the front page of the Daily Mirror, about a girl named Melanie Coe. Although McCartney made up most of the content, Coe, who was 17 at the time[2] claims that he got most of it right. Her parents wondered why she had left... "She had everything she wanted". In real life, Melanie did not "meet a man from the motor trade", but instead a croupier, and left in the afternoon while her parents were at work. The adventure ended a week later.[citation needed]

Coincidentally, Coe had met McCartney three years earlier when she was a contestant and prize winner on ITV's Ready Steady Go!.

She's Leaving Home (Lennon/McCartney)

From another site:

Song background
Just as with 'A Day in the Life', 'She's Leaving Home' is based on a newspaper story; this one about a girl who, despite being wealthy and getting good grades, runs away from home to seek fun and romance. The girl was named Melanie Coe, who ran away from her home life because of rigid rules which she claimed didn't allow her to be herself. In an ironic twist, Paul had met Melanie three years earlier on the set of the British program Ready Steady Go!, a teenage-targeted music and dancing show. She had won an award and Paul was the presenter. Melanie has said that she loved to dance and going to the clubs allowed her to be free and herself.

aboutthebeatles.com/song-shes_leaving_home.html

Finally, I found the date when it was "supposedly" thought up.

Paul McCartney got the idea to the song She's Leaving Home in February 1967 after reading an article in the Daily Mirror about 17-year-old Melanie Coe who had run away from home. What McCartney didn't know at the time is that he had actually met Melanie three years before on the TV program Ready Steady Go.

www.thebeatlesonline.com/pages/beatles_trivia.htm

I honestly don't know what to make of this. Could it be that they saw the article after Paul had already recorded the song ? They might've decided to quote it as being background, if anyone wanted to know where the song came from. Not many of the details in the article fit the details in the song. Faul has been making stuff up all along. That kind of throws his crediility in the garbage, as far as I'm concerned. Those were strange days indeed.

[skyward]

mommybird said:

I honestly don't know what to make of this. Could it be that they saw the article after Paul had already recorded the song ? They might've decided to quote it as being background, if anyone wanted to know where the song came from. Not many of the details in the article fit the details in the song. Faul has been making stuff up all along. That kind of throws his crediility in the garbage, as far as I'm concerned. Those were strange days indeed.

It is quite possible that he only developed a song around the basic premise of a young gal leaving home, using artistic license as many an artist are wont to do.

I think it is difficult to arrive at absolute certainty when we're dealing with the 'Beatles Machine', is it possible that She's Leaving Home was an old track sung by JPM, sure, but I also think it is possible that Faul performed the vocals for the song.

I don't claim to have a great musical ear, I'm certainly not the one to make any concrete declarations, I just go by a hunch or by near certainty, realizing that I might be wrong... And if I am wrong, then it is fine, as the entire puzzle is enigmatic enough for all.

If JPM did sing the song, originally, then Sir Faul did a really top notch job at replicating it in 2002.

[mommybird]

I will happily(sp?) concede that point. Sir Paul, the greatest celebrity impersonator of all time !

[LOVELYRITA]

Thinking about this I'm wondering if the "article" was not prefabricated. Was this article actually before 1966? I'm just thinking if the machinery that could replace JPM could not also have fabricated the article just to make appear to be about a girl and not a metaphor for JPM?

OR JPM knew he wouldn't have long to live, perhaps premonitions, and he penned this song?