Jude meaning

[mciiii]

St. Jude or Judas, isn't the only apostol who was replaced (by St. Paul or St Matthias)? only a coincidence or another clue?

[LOVELYRITA]

Matthias replaced the position since Judas hung himself.
Judah was one of the twelve tribes of Israel. Also part of the Southern kingdom with the tribe of Benjamin, whose capital Jerusalem, after Israel's kingdom was divided. The other ten tribes were part of Israel with their capital Samaria. : )
The small new Testament book of Jude was written by Paul
Jude was the brother of James.
One of the things discussed in Jude is about being given over to "strange flesh"...
Just thought you may like to know that.

[mciiii]

The small new Testament book of Jude was written by Paul
Jude was the brother of James.

Well, we got a trilogy, James, Paul and Jude

[LOVELYRITA]

Brother of James....is this really about JPM's brother? After all, he would have been deeply affected by the loss of his brother...but he gained a Faul...

[LOVELYRITA]

On another site, someone wrote that Hey Jude was supposed to be the imagery of Faul being a resurrected Paul (Jesus figure) singing to John (The Judas figure). It was used to lure John into being brainwashed into going with Yoko. A mind control song.

This is not my opinion, but just what someone else had written elsewhere. Just bringing that point here for the folks in this forum.

[mciiii]

I'm read in some sites 'Jude' was inspired by the character 'Jud' in the musical Oklahoma!.
www.google.com.ar/search?hl=es&q=hey+jude+jud+Oklahoma&meta=

Oklahoma! Soundtrack Lyrics - Pore Jud Is Daid Lyrics

Curly:
Pore Jud is daid,
Pore Jud Fry is daid.
All gather 'round his coffin now and cry
He had a heart of gold
And he wasn't very old
Oh, why did such a fella have to die?
Pore Jud is daid,
Pore Jud Fry is daid.
He's lookin' oh so peaceful and serene

Jud:
And serene!

Curly:
He's all laid down to rest
with his hands across his chest
His finger nails have never been so clean...

Curly:
[speaking]
And then the preacher'd get up and he'd say: "Folks, we are gathered here to
mourn and growl of our brother Jud Fry, who hung himself up by a rope and smoke
outs, and then we have been weepin' and wailin' within some of the women".
And then he'd say: "Jud was the most misunderstood man in the territory'. People
used to think he was a mean, ugly fella and they called 'im a dirty skunk and a
northern pick stealer.

Curly:
[Singing]
But the folks that really knowed 'im
Knowed that neath them dirty shirts he always wore,
There beated a heart as big as all outdoors

Jud:
As big as all outdoors-

Curly:
Jud Fry loved his fella men,

Jud:
He loved his fella men-

Curly:
[Speaking]
He loved the birds of the forest
And the bees of the field,
He loved the mice and the vermin in the barn,
And he treated the rats like equals, which he was right!
And he loved the little children, he loved everybody
And everything in the world...Only he'd never let on,
So nobody ever noticed..."

Curly:
[Singing]
Pore Jud is daid,
Pore Jud Fry is daid,
His friends all weep and wail for miles around--

Jud:
Miles around!

Curly

[LOVELYRITA]

That is an interesting concept.
But something about "Curly" he was replaced....in the Three Stooges....

[JoJo]

lovelyrita said:

That is an interesting concept.
But something about "Curly" he was replaced....in the Three Stooges....

By his older Brother, due to Curly having had a stroke. Curly made a cameo appearance as a passenger on a train in one of the early Shemp episodes however.

A bit about the song, first from John, and then Francie Schwartz:

John's take on Hey Jude, 1980 Playboy Interview:

PLAYBOY: "Let's go back to jogging your memory with songs. How about
Paul's song 'Hey Jude'?"

LENNON: "He said it was written about Julian. He knew I was splitting
with Cyn and leaving Julian then. He was driving to see Julian to say
hello. He had been like an uncle. And he came up with 'Hey Jude.' But
I always heard it as a song to me. Now I'm sounding like one of those
fans reading things into it... Think about it: Yoko had just come into
the picture. He is saying. 'Hey, Jude'-- 'Hey, John.' Subconsciously,
he was saying, 'Go ahead, leave me.' On a conscious level, he didn't
want me to go ahead. The angel in him was saying, 'Bless you.' The
devil in him didn't like it at all, because he didn't want to lose his
partner."

And Francie's take on it:

Paul had not only *met* Linda when I brought my film idea to
London in April 1968.
However, he wrote most of the lyrics during our relationship,
and finished his conceptualizing
during the time between his inviting me to "come home"
(including taking me to meet
his father - twice) and John and Yoko's extended stay at
Cavendish Ave.

An interesting point: In the boot disk my partner sent me last
spring, Paul sings the
lyric differently: "She has found you, now go and get her."
Which could be taken either
way.

I've never claimed that Jude *is* me. More often, I've said he
is referring to himself in
the title (and I was also aware of the saint of lost causes) and
at the same time, his appropriation
of some of my phrases lends credence toward John's expression of
it - which was protective of
Paul's feelings about his privacy as well as a nod of
acknowledgement to me. I don't think
John made it up that Paul told him it was about *us*.

Linda was already in his mind, but I don't think he made up his
mind about asking her to
come to London until August, around the same time as the
fracturing of his partnership with
John following the "hate note" incident. By that time, the song
was complete, even though its
length was being debated.

Thank you for asking as a question instead of an attack on my
credibility.

We've agreed that Paul is seldom literal in his lyrics, and the
vagueness is deliberate.
This song means a great many things to a great many people.

Still, if Linda had been very much on his mind, I think he would
have sung Jude at
her memorials.

Francie

[beatlies]

Lennon's explanation makes no sense: the song lyrics are completely "let her into your heart / go and get her," all nudging him toward "her" (Yoko? Orchidectomized JPM?) There is no suggestion of the narrator worrying about "lose[ing] his partner."

His uptight remark "now I'm sounding like one of those fans reading things into it" is also interesting for the dishonesty it reminds us of both with him, and the interviewer. The song is about a "JUDE" ---that means "Jew" in German, has Holocaust and Hitler implications, and has biblical connotations as well. What do you think "fans" are going to do with a loaded word like that and why doesn't the interviewer mention that?

[mciiii]

time ago i post this in other forum

mccartneyiii said:

it's all a crazy theorie, but one curious thing is that the real Linda Esatman surename was Epstein



'Linda McCartney's grandparents were Leopold & Stella Epstein (Russian Jews) and Max & Stella Linder (German Jews). Linda McCartney's father Lee changed his surname from Epstein to Eastman. Stella McCartney is named after her two great grandmothers.

'As you can see from the photo, it appears that Linda (on the right, pictured with family in New York) came out lighter than her siblings, possibly due to regressive genes? There is no doubt however that her and her daughter Stella are Jews'.

Source: Linda McCartney: The Biography by Danny Field, published by Warner Books (subsidiary of Time-Warner, the Jewish multi-media empire).'

Hey Judaism: Fashion designer Stella McCartney, daughter of Beatle Paul McCartney and his late wife Linda Eastman McCartney, talks about her Jewish identity in the January issue of British Glamour. "My Mum was Jewish," she says. "Maybe I'm a really bad Jew because I'm always so excited to say that I am, but I don't live and breathe the religion."

Linda McCartney, raised in Scarsdale, N.Y., was the daughter of Louise Lindner and entertainment lawyer Lee Eastman (ne Epstein). Her grandfather was Max Joseph Linder, who operated a famed women's clothing shop in Cleveland and was active in the city's major Reform temple; Max's wife, and Stella's great-grandmother, was Stella Dryfoos.

Stella McCartney says her friend and kabbalah devotee Madonna has been trying to get the designer interested in mysticism. "She's a new Jew," McCartney says. "But I have been to a kabbalah meeting with her. I don't completely understand it and she'll kill me if she reads that, useless girl that I am. But it's one of the better religions. Oh God, I should shut up: All the followers will start chucking things at me."
www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.12.27/featherman.html

That's a better choice than Brian to Faul, Brian to Lee.

Why Paul want's her brother and father in law to manage The Beatles?

Think globally, Act locally

mccartneyiii said:

maybe are only sexual connotations, you know, The minute you let her under your skin, let it out and let it in, the movement you need is on your shoulders and all about, are sexual (or bisexual) messages in the song, that's why i'm not believe when McCartney says is a song for Julian, maybe is well for Brian.

[JoJo]

Bill is interviewed a number of times in Anthology, and there is one interview in the director's cut that has the end part cut off on the official version..Bill speaks a few sentences in Yiddish.. Bill may very well be of the Jewish faith, and if Francie is correct in saying it's about him..could be the meaning is not that mysterious at all. (that's not to say that means he's Brian, just to be clear)

Or he could have picked it up somehow from the close proximity to Linda's family, I know someone will say that.. Don't know..

[beatlies]

"All the young dudes" the "Mott the Hoople" song sounds like it's a "Hey Jude" imitation.

I've noticed the "na na na" repeating line of Hey Jude seems to be copied from the chorus of "I'd Do Anything," a well known song from the British 1962 musical Oliver! ---Davey Jones, who would become one of the Monkees (!!), performed this on the Ed Sullivan Show with a bunch of Oliver! cast members as one of the other acts in the same February 1964 landmark show where the Beatles made their first appearance in the U.S. / Canada. That's my Hey Jude discovery. Compare the melody of the verses"I'd do anything, anything for you" and "na na na nananana ... Hey Jude" It's interesting that even the rhyme sounds "you" and "Jude" match.

David Jones is also Bowie's actual name. Hey Jude seems to be patched together from the stolen bits of other songs and spoken words. If we're looking for secret writers of Beatles songs, I think that on the basis of his songs' style, Bowie is a good candidate for writing or co-writing Hey Jude.


As TotalInformation has pointed out "Hey Jude" and "make it Jude" are also from a comedy routine from the 50's comedian Lord Buckley. The "na" could come from "Nazz" ---

He uses the words "the Nazz" to mean Jesus.

From his routine (this is also where Bowie's "the Nazz" comes from in his "Ziggy Stardust" (JPM) code song) ---

"the boat is goin' up and down
and these poor cats figured every minute gonna be their last
and one cat look up and.... here come The Nazz!

Cool as anyone you see.
Right across the water.

Stompin'

And there was a little cat on board, I think his name was Jude.

He say, "Hey, Nazz, can I make it out there witcha?"

And The Nazz say, "Make it, Jude!"

Old Jude went stompin' off that boat,
took four steps,
dropped his whole cart,
and the Nazz had to stash him back on board.

So The Nazz say, "Say, what seem to be troublin' you boys?"

He say, "You hittin' on that S.O.S.in' bell pretty hard.
You gonna bend that bell, knockin' on it like that."

One of the cats say, " 'What seems to be troublin' ya?!?!'
Can't ya see the storm's goin'
and the lightnin' flashin'
and the thunder roarin'...?"

And The Nazz say, "I told you to stay cool, didn't I, babies?"

To the people who don't know what it means to believe,
to "stay cool" is to be,
to have the sweet fragrance of serenity rock ya' away.

So now everybody's talkin' about The Nazz.

Oh, this beautiful, swingin' man.

How he's settin' the country on fire with great sparks of great love
like a swingin' non-stop satellite goin' through all the lands "

[TotalInformation]

"ressurected PAUL" = Christ, singing to Lennon, urging him to play Jude and betray Paul's dream... forget about silly dead PAUL and his ideals & ideas -- cleave unto the dark witch Yoko

Rising cadence na na na na's = Carrollian mind-control trigger... probably implanted in Lennon as a youth

[LOVELYRITA]

I have to say that there is something to the na-na-na repetitive mantra...not only as mind control to the youth, in alot of children's songs that do this. But also even in some other forms of music...lulling people into a trance-like state, an altered state, to open one's mind to mystical meditations.

Why do you think the Beatles went to India? If they were part of the Illuminati's plan to infiltrate Western standards to open them to the eastern mystical ways, they were planted to go to India and be influenced by Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhist practices.

Alot of the Children's writers were illuminists like L. Frank Baum and Carroll and I'm sure other famous children's fable writers were influenced with the occult and mind control.

I'm a sure believer that most, if not all who are famous have been or has become part of the system.

Jude 4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and Our Lord Jesus Christ."

Jude 6 "And the angles which kept not their first estate (proper domain), but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Jude 7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Jude 8 "Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities."

There is a reference in Genesis 6:2 "That the sons of God saw the daugthers of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

The
"sons of God" are called Nephillim, the fallen angels that did not stay in the domain which they were created, and went after "strange flesh", they mated with the women and a race of strange flesh, the Philistines were created. They were giants and had extra digits on their hands and feet.

As strange as it sounds, these creatures were a race of people.

Could it be that some occultists believe they are some strange race of people...trying to control the minds of "earth youth"?
The elitists, perhaps those who believe they are Atlantians, surviving the continent of Atlantis, or trying to re create a new Atlantis...a New World Order...

[plastic paul]

Hey Jude is certainly one of my all time faves, particularly the "na na na" bit, I don't know why I love it so much because IMO it's not musically or lyrically ground breaking.

Have I been somehow brainwashed?

I doubt it myself but you never know...!

[Doc]

lovelyrita said:

I have to say that there is something to the na-na-na repetitive mantra...not only as mind control to the youth, in alot of children's songs that do this. But also even in some other forms of music...lulling people into a trance-like state, an altered state, to open one's mind to mystical meditations.

Why do you think the Beatles went to India? If they were part of the Illuminati's plan to infiltrate Western standards to open them to the eastern mystical ways, they were planted to go to India and be influenced by Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhist practices.

Alot of the Children's writers were illuminists like L. Frank Baum and Carroll and I'm sure other famous children's fable writers were influenced with the occult and mind control.

I'm a sure believer that most, if not all who are famous have been or has become part of the system.

Jude 4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and Our Lord Jesus Christ."

Jude 6 "And the angles which kept not their first estate (proper domain), but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Jude 7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Jude 8 "Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities."

There is a reference in Genesis 6:2 "That the sons of God saw the daugthers of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

The
"sons of God" are called Nephillim, the fallen angels that did not stay in the domain which they were created, and went after "strange flesh", they mated with the women and a race of strange flesh, the Philistines were created. They were giants and had extra digits on their hands and feet.

As strange as it sounds, these creatures were a race of people.

Could it be that some occultists believe they are some strange race of people...trying to control the minds of "earth youth"?
The elitists, perhaps those who believe they are Atlantians, surviving the continent of Atlantis, or trying to re create a new Atlantis...a New World Order...

Pardon for interjecting a bit of supposition. I agree with all what you have said above.

The "spirits" in Tartarus mentionedonly in summary form in the King James, are discussed in much greater details in Enoch, Jubilles, Jasher, and
a couple of others, the Wisdom of Solomon, I think, but no matter.

The point is, their intellectual activity maybe continuing even now.
They are "in chains", as it were, or, spiritually unable to rise back to our surface level in corporeal form. But they would like to.

They are aware of some grim outcome for themselves in the future. So, for now, I suspect they settle for involving themselves in men's affairs the only way they can acheive---through ESP contact with enlightened, and possibly powerful humans, on the surface. This done through ritual and mental co-op
on land.

Which has made me wonder if there is a deeper level in the mind of a few for:
As above, so below.

The "demons", en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon, are the disembodied spirits of the human-angel hybrids that were products of the "angels choosing the daughters of Adam". A hard to believe concept isn't it?
[Though bible text says that the "angels in heaven niether give nor are given in marraige", this may not refer to "angels who are NOT in heaven." After all, it was said that that particular band of angels left their first estate, which upon study really means that they changed the condition they were in---they shape-shifted into something that could mate with the daughters of men.]
But the demons are surface bound and attach themselves to places and people. They were once alive in near human bodies. They are the undead, with long memories of having been human, and what they have witnessed human doing in the last 6 thousand years.

Scary, but THEY know history better than the history books.

God always leaves a witness, even it is a demon.

For one day the very demons will spill their accounts as well. Though demons are thought to lie, I think that the truth of their thoughts can be read by God.

The demons that torment people can be told to go away, be banished, scolded into acquiescence. They are malevolent, mischeivous, and bitter about the condition they cannot escape. But they WERE human at one time. They are subject to sterner authorities, and the Bible places authoritive word over them in the possession of Christ and his Body.
When ordered away by Christ, the demons responses sound cowering, terrified, even pathetic. Almost sorry for their inability to control themselves.

Not so with the angels who left their first estate. They are wild, untamable, and are in supernatural bonds far below us. They are not sorry and they don't have any compunctions about controlling themelves.
The angels in the pit were never human and are far more powerful than the land roving demons. The implication in various texts from my readings of them, is that they are vengeful and zealously impatient to get out and wreak maximum havoc on mankind. They resent us and are jealous of us.
Revelations states that they will released for a brief season
commanded by Apolyon their cheif. Some feel that time is near. I do not know. It won't be pretty when it happens.

My main point, is that these ranks of entities may possibly be playing a major part in the "conspiracy." By virtue of their immense mental power and covert nature, they could make pawns of high-level humans in the game. This kind of control goes undetected. What we see as a rotten eggs
CEO, or a dark shady Senator, is really an unwitting front man for a
cadre of unseen tyrannical enfants-terrible.

This is of course conjecture based on assorted bible texts, and extra-biblical texts not always considered valid by church authorities. I don't
in any way discount the very real participation of humans in these latter day conspiracies-----guilt is guilt and there are enough evil men.

But, sometimes, the real brains of the operation, when you can't determine the leading men involved, just MAY possibly be 4,000 miles under.

Beam me up and out, Scotty.........

[LOVELYRITA]

Scotty, are you sure you want beamed up now?

I wished I had the link right now, but I don't, but there are some who speculate that these "disembodied spirits" demons, are the "creatures" that people see and think are space aliens.

If these creatures we think of as aliens are demons, then maybe the increased UFO sightings have something to do with the nearness of the hour of the end of the age.

There have been some space connections with JPM and Bill , Venus and Mars...maybe Bill has been "visited" by aliens, Nephillim spirits. Maybe they have inspired some of the material.

Maybe "na-na-na-na-na" was part of the communication with the spirit world....And maybe some of the other lyrics sandwiched around it tries to make it seem like something else, supposedly Bill singing to Julian Lennon.

Nothing would surprise me...