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Post by jarvitronics on Jun 24, 2007 2:55:10 GMT -5
There is a plant, grown primarily in India, called "betel pepper," which is pronounced like, you guessed it, Beatle Pepper. The leaves are shiny green and HEART shaped. From what I can tell, it is possible that the row of green plants directly beneath the Sgt Pepper drum are betel pepper.
This plant is of the genus Piper. (Pepper and piper are basically the same word, both deriving from the Indian root word, pippali).
The Marvellous Lunch, (in the MMT comix), is served at a restaurant called The Magic Piper. (The Magic Pepper).
In 1966 there was a big hit on the radio in both the UK and the US called I'm The Pied Piper. (Remember that one?) The first four words of that song are: "You with your masquerading..."
Pied Piper --> Flaming Pie Piper???
Could that song have inspired the concept for Sgt Pepper in some way?
-j
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Post by jarvitronics on Jun 24, 2007 3:31:36 GMT -5
Karl Marx (#31 on Sgt Pepper) makes reference to The Pied Piper in his 1906 work Capital: A Critique of Political Economy. (pg. 764).
In 1913, a man named WILLIAM SHEPARD Walsh published a book called A Handy Book of Curious Information. On pages 727-728 of that book he talks about the legend of The Pied Piper.
And the kicker? The story of the Pied Piper (based on a true incident) took place in June 1284, on the day of SAINTS JOHN AND PAUL
-j
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jun 24, 2007 7:57:09 GMT -5
jarvitronics wrote: "In 1966 there was a big hit on the radio in both the UK and the US called I'm The Pied Piper. (Remember that one?) The first four words of that song are: "You with your masquerading..."
Pied Piper --> Flaming Pie Piper???
Could that song have inspired the concept for Sgt Pepper in some way?"Very unlikely. Here's a bit about the person who wrote that song: (start reading under second picture) He does mention John Lennon, though. www.artiekornfeld-woodstock.com/history.htm-------- www.retrosellers.com/features101.htm"Take "The Pied Piper," for example. The tune was originally written and recorded by the American singer/songwriting duo of Artie Kornfeld & Steve Duboff and released as a single on the Phillips label in late 1965 under the name The Changin' Times. The record became a minor West Coast hit, but only made it to #87 nationally. When British singer Crispian St. Peters covered it a couple of months later, it zoomed into the British top 10, and was subsequently released in the States, where it also became a top 10 hit, leaving the original American version in the dust (and in the process, rendering it a much sought after collector's item). " |
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Post by beatlies on Jun 24, 2007 10:43:29 GMT -5
Karl Marx (#31 on Sgt Pepper) makes reference to The Pied Piper in his 1906 work Capital: A Critique of Political Economy. (pg. 764). In 1913, a man named WILLIAM SHEPARD Walsh published a book called A Handy Book of Curious Information. On pages 727-728 of that book he talks about the legend of The Pied Piper. And the kicker? The story of the Pied Piper (based on a true incident) took place in June 1284, on the day of SAINTS JOHN AND PAUL -j What does Marx say about "The Pied Piper"? I noticed "betel pepper" a long time ago when I was researching "Devil's Pepper" seen in Rosemary (another condiment plant)'s Baby. Did you ever get the Japanese translated in the "Looking Through a Glass Onion" book of 1936? |
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Post by jarvitronics on Jun 24, 2007 11:13:23 GMT -5
What does Marx say about "The Pied Piper"? Marx is talking about farming and the "gang system" that was used at that time for farm labor, which he claims kept wages artificially low. He compares the leaders of these gangs to The Pied Piper because they tended to use charm rather than coercion to hold the gangs together. Did you ever get the Japanese translated in the "Looking Through a Glass Onion" book of 1936? My son looked at it, but he only recognizes about half the characters. (He speaks Japanese better than he reads it; he lived in Japan for two years). He didn't catch anything about a glass onion, but then again there is only a tiny fragment of the page visible. For the benefit of those who have no idea what we are talking about - I started a thread over at TKIN about the phrase "Glass Onion" being found in literature, and beatlies is asking about that. I have started that same thread here on this board. Here is the link to it. invanddis.proboards29.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Clues&thread=1182701439-j |
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Post by jarvitronics on Jun 24, 2007 14:48:26 GMT -5
jarvitronics wrote: "In 1966 there was a big hit on the radio in both the UK and the US called I'm The Pied Piper. (Remember that one?) The first four words of that song are: "You with your masquerading..."
Pied Piper --> Flaming Pie Piper???
Could that song have inspired the concept for Sgt Pepper in some way?"Very unlikely. Here's a bit about the person who wrote that song: (start reading under second picture) He does mention John Lennon, though. www.artiekornfeld-woodstock.com/history.htm-------- www.retrosellers.com/features101.htm"Take "The Pied Piper," for example. The tune was originally written and recorded by the American singer/songwriting duo of Artie Kornfeld & Steve Duboff and released as a single on the Phillips label in late 1965 under the name The Changin' Times. The record became a minor West Coast hit, but only made it to #87 nationally. When British singer Crispian St. Peters covered it a couple of months later, it zoomed into the British top 10, and was subsequently released in the States, where it also became a top 10 hit, leaving the original American version in the dust (and in the process, rendering it a much sought after collector's item). " I doubt there was any direct connection between the writers of that song and The Beatles. I am only suggesting that, since it was such a big hit both in the US and the UK, (in the same year that they started on Sgt Pepper, 1966), that all of The Beatles would have heard it and been familiar with it. That is the only sense in which I could see there being a connection. The Beatles wordplay on Piper/Pepper seems to be intentional. Consider this: The most common preparation of betel pepper for human consumption is called paan, or pan, (both spellings are used). If the row of plants beneath the Sgt Pepper drumskin are actually betel pepper, it might explain the word "PAN" in Peter Blake's original sketch, right at the spot where the row of betel pepper lies in the actual cover shot.  Some people see these letters as "PAUL," but I only see PAN. There is no "L," and the "U" has a light downstroke on the left, making it into an "N." Or these could just be random lines that happen to suggest letters to the human mind. There is no telling is there? Anyway, I could see John or Paul hearing the song and thinking to himself, "Hey man, The Beatles are the pied pipers. We got our name from a man in flaming pie, and the whole pop world follows us." Then you add the first line of the song being about a masquerade and it is tempting to think this could have been the seed of the idea that led to Sgt Pepper. Not that I actually believe it heh. How would I know? I'm just speculating. -j |
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Post by mysteryboy on Jun 24, 2007 14:57:59 GMT -5
jarvitronics wrote: "In 1966 there was a big hit on the radio in both the UK and the US called I'm The Pied Piper. (Remember that one?) The first four words of that song are: "You with your masquerading..."
Pied Piper --> Flaming Pie Piper???
Could that song have inspired the concept for Sgt Pepper in some way?"Very unlikely. Here's a bit about the person who wrote that song: (start reading under second picture) He does mention John Lennon, though. www.artiekornfeld-woodstock.com/history.htm-------- www.retrosellers.com/features101.htm"Take "The Pied Piper," for example. The tune was originally written and recorded by the American singer/songwriting duo of Artie Kornfeld & Steve Duboff and released as a single on the Phillips label in late 1965 under the name The Changin' Times. The record became a minor West Coast hit, but only made it to #87 nationally. When British singer Crispian St. Peters covered it a couple of months later, it zoomed into the British top 10, and was subsequently released in the States, where it also became a top 10 hit, leaving the original American version in the dust (and in the process, rendering it a much sought after collector's item). " I doubt there was any direct connection between the writers of that song and The Beatles. I am only suggesting that, since it was such a big hit both in the US and the UK, (in the same year that they started on Sgt Pepper, 1966), that all of The Beatles would have heard it and been familiar with it. That is the only sense in which I could see there being a connection. The Beatles wordplay on Piper/Pepper seems to be intentional. Consider this: The most common preparation of betel pepper for human consumption is called paan, or pan, (both spellings are used). If the row of plants beneath the Sgt Pepper drumskin are actually betel pepper, it might explain the word "PAN" in Peter Blake's original sketch, right at the spot where the row of betel pepper lies in the actual cover shot. Some people see these letters as "PAUL," but I only see PAN. There is no "L," and the "U" has a light downstroke on the left, making it into an "N." Or these could just be random lines that happen to suggest letters to the human mind. There is no telling is there? Anyway, I could see John or Paul hearing the song and thinking to himself, "Hey man, The Beatles are the pied pipers. We got our name from a man in flaming pie, and the whole pop world follows us." Then you add the first line of the song being about a masquerade and it is tempting to think this could have been the seed of the idea that led to Sgt Pepper. Not that I actually believe it heh. How would I know? I'm just speculating. -j Sorry to change the subject but the drawing from Blake is interesting. With his drawn rectangle below the feet of the people it looks like a grave/funeral, maybe even more so than the actual final Album cover. Ya know, "Blake, the basic idea is a funeral". Regarding Pied Piper, I don't think it had much to do with Pepper. (imo) |
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Post by fourthousandholes on Jun 26, 2007 16:58:39 GMT -5
Today is "Pied Piper Day" in Germany. Beyond that, "I know nothink!" ;D
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Post by jarvitronics on Jun 26, 2007 17:29:19 GMT -5
Today is "Pied Piper Day" in Germany. Beyond that, "I know nothink!" ;D The story of the Pied Piper of Hamelin is based on an actual event that occurred in Germany on June 26, 1284, Saint John's and Saint Paul's day. Today is the 723rd anniversary of the real Pied Piper. -j |
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Post by LOVELYRITA on Jun 29, 2007 3:40:54 GMT -5
Any relation to Peter Piper?
Remember, he picked a peck of pickled peppers?
I think the story behind the story is that Peter Piper was a pie eyed piper who also picked pickled peppers. But Peter had a brother Pied who played flute for Sgt. Pickled Pepper's Lonely Pickled Hearts Club Band. While practicing, he walked and attracted all the rodents of Hamelin.
Actually he was the original ORKIN Man...
He also stuttered and the Pickled Peppers tongue twister became a joke at New Year's parties through these last 723 years.....
The music of "Pied Piper" is the Hamelin Village Anthem....
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