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Post by LOVELYRITA on Dec 28, 2005 13:39:17 GMT -5
While thinking of other songs on the White Album, "Mother Nature's Son" comes to mind. Now was this a JPM song that Bill ripped, or was this all Bill?
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Post by sistermaryabbey on Dec 29, 2005 14:48:46 GMT -5
We have a Sunday morning broadcast called, "Beatle Brunch". Once I heard Bill saying he wrote blackbird about a black girl....."we called them birds then...hahaha!
It just showed one more examle of Bill trying to re-write history and act like he actually wrote "Blackbird". Just like his story regarding "Michelle".
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Post by LOVELYRITA on Dec 29, 2005 16:36:36 GMT -5
I find Bill contemptible. To take on the identity of another person, especially the much loved JPM, and continue this charade for almost 40 years, and deceiving many. He's horrible.
I have also noticed interviews when talking about John or George, he didn't look that broken up. After all, if it were truly JPM, this man would go way back to his teens with those two bandmates. He's as phoney as a $3.00 bill. Note: For those folks who are reading outside the US, there is no such thing as a $3.00 bill.
What am I saying, he is a phoney BILL.
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Post by lili on Dec 30, 2005 10:26:06 GMT -5
Nice play on words, Rita !!! ;D I agree completely. To make things even more ridiculous, he doesn't sound anything like Paul. If you listen to an interview with Paul & then one with Bill... Their voices do NOT match up. How can people be so easily deceived
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Post by JoJo on Feb 21, 2006 17:08:49 GMT -5
There was something interesting on another rehearsal cut, someone pointed this out to me a while ago, and I just heard it again, anyway.. About 57 seconds into this version the following conversation takes place between someone (I think I know who, more in a minute) in the control room, and Bill. Control Room Guy: That's great Charles, just try it once more. Bill: Well sure CRG: I mean you're going really great. B: Yeah - I think I'm in the right direction. CRG: You're getting in the right direction. B: I thinks so, sure, It feels as though it's going in the *right* (emphasis mine) way CRG: You're getting it up (head high?) B: Groovy, groovy.... After a few listens, I'm pretty sure the control room guy was John. Now, John seems to be goofing around, calling him Charles, I don't think his name is really Charles. Then again, who knows. One thing that occurred to me, John could be making a sideways sarcastic remark, or an inside joke, like he was saying Bill is like Prince Charles or something.
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Post by beatlies on Feb 21, 2006 17:30:24 GMT -5
Maybe a Charles Manson reference?
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Post by plastic paul on Feb 21, 2006 19:43:38 GMT -5
Well first things first, that certainly isn't JPM in a million years (as i'm sure we're all aware), but it almost doesn't even sound like Bill.
Then I realise that the guy in the control room is Irish.
Then I realise that Bill is taking the p*ss when responding by mocking his accent.
Then when I read JoJo saying that he reckons it is John, I realise that it's just a little joke they're having and nothing more sadly, but, a great little snippet, I love stuff like that.... so I do, to be sure.
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Post by Doc on Feb 21, 2006 19:51:37 GMT -5
There was something interesting on another rehearsal cut, someone pointed this out to me a while ago, and I just heard it again, anyway.. About 57 seconds into this version the following conversation takes place between someone (I think I know who, more in a minute) in the control room, and Bill. Control Room Guy: That's great Charles, just try it once more. Bill: Well sure CRG: I mean you're going really great. B: Yeah - I think I'm in the right direction. CRG: You're getting in the right direction. B: I thinks so, sure, It feels as though it's going in the *right* (emphasis mine) way CRG: You're getting it up (head high?) B: Groovy, groovy.... After a few listens, I'm pretty sure the control room guy was John. Now, John seems to be goofing around, calling him Charles, I don't think his name is really Charles. Then again, who knows. One thing that occurred to me, John could be making a sideways sarcastic remark, or an inside joke, like he was saying Bill is like Prince Charles or something. Also, on was it NAGRA ROLL 126A or 127A near the beginning, I forget, is it Michael Lindsay-Hogg?, anyway the conversation runs like this: GIANT PARAPHRASE Nagra 126A I think near beginning: PERSON 1: Yes, I really like Charles, of all the guys who (voice lowers to mumble.....indistinct...) are doing? Paul..(indistinct), he is the most down to earth. PERSON 2: Yes, he's.........rather self-contained (sound of lighting up and smoking cigarette) He doesn't need.......anyone else. He just does it... PERSON 3: Yes, yes (etc.) also (indisinct) also a lot like Bill. But all Bill thinks about is his wife, his farm, his art collection... PERSON 2: Yes. And his wife--- she's a scultor? PERSON3: A sculptor.. PERSON 2 Marvelous. Something like that, Ill try to find. Also, when Lindsay-Hogg is talking to Ringo on 125A I think it is, and they are talking about the "project" at hand, Ringo asks him how the footage is, how good will the product be, and the director guy says something like "It's great footage. It all depends on if we are going to be able to be tell it like it REALLY is, be----revelatory, or if we are going to have to sort of........"hide", oh, I hate to use that word......" Ringo laughs, I think, and says something, I forget, then the director wryly comment, "Instead of an "Apple Core", it'll be like an Apple.............(after some thinking) rind." They giggle. Then he says, "pit". They snicker....... So, it is as if they were waiting to find out which way it was going to go; reveal the "secrets", or keep things under wraps. So-------the other man in the mix, the other Paul, perhaps? This might explain why I sense the presence of two Paul's in the force...... One down, 2 alive. Or-----maybe three alive.................3 Paul's in the gumbo.........or 3 stand-ins working different aspects...... "One and one and one is three". Hmmmm. Just maybe. MAYBE----Not 3 other Beatles. MAYBE----The number of new "Pauls"? "Got to be good looking 'cause he's so hard to see"......... A person has to look very carefully in order to isolate the original one out of the mix........ "Come Together"---it took 2 or 3 guys to make the illusion work in the beginning?
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Post by JoJo on Feb 21, 2006 19:59:43 GMT -5
Yes I remember this, I'll try to dig this up, but if you find it first, please direct me to the correct clip.
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Post by Doc on Feb 21, 2006 20:06:49 GMT -5
Yes I remember this, I'll try to dig this up, but if you find it first, please direct me to the correct clip. It's a Nagra Roll on the shoebox, one of the 5 or 6 on the general shoebox listing....
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Post by Doc on Feb 21, 2006 20:09:30 GMT -5
Nagra 126A has the
Ringo/Lindsay-Hogg exchange--"It depends on how liquid the situation is, if we can tell it like it is, baby, sock it to 'em, baby"
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Post by il ras on Feb 21, 2006 20:57:44 GMT -5
was Linda a sculptor?
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Post by Doc on Feb 21, 2006 21:23:27 GMT -5
Well, no I guees not. She was a noted photographer, though. In the most general way, both are artists. Um, yea, pretty different, apple and an orange. Well, OK, maybe there is no connection. A Charles and a Bill that both (mumble-mumble) Paul. That much is clear on the recording. At least, to my ears. I will talk to Jojo about possibly posting the excerpt if he has time........Group ears are better than my single pair......I may be biased..........I will leave it to the group.
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Feb 21, 2006 21:52:37 GMT -5
I don't ever recall Linda doing any sculpture either, just photographs. Her daughter Mary had failed ceramic pottery business, as well as also being into photography.
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Post by il ras on Feb 21, 2006 22:04:44 GMT -5
Can't it be that the "actual Paul" is Charles and another double (perhaps the SFF/PL one) was Bill?
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Post by JoJo on Feb 21, 2006 22:22:55 GMT -5
It's a minute or so into this one. He's a nice guy Chuck, I'm not trying to...(Ringo: mmm hmm) I think he's really...probably the most together of all of them..Paul..in general..They had this "talking in code words" vibe, not just here, but all throughout the entire Nagra series.
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Post by Doc on Feb 21, 2006 22:31:56 GMT -5
Can't be that the "actual Paul" is Charles and another double (perhaps the SFF/PL one) was Bill? I have thought about this. Paul, if he lived, would need a new identity as well, a new name. Whoever that is, on the Blackbird audio, IMO, is the exact same person being Paul on the audio where they are doing the back up harmonies of "Think for Yourself." Listen to Paul on that one, where he says to John "So, everytime we came to there, you pointed down there...etc." or where he sings mockingly, "Great big Be-O-derant, great Big B. O. derant" to John whenever John was confessing how bad he stank at the studio that day... The throaty, deep quality of the voice on those spots is like Paul or whoever this is in this Blackbird audio---- where he is responding to John after John calls him Charles....
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Post by il ras on Feb 21, 2006 22:39:07 GMT -5
In the second file they keep calling him Charles (doesn't Chuck go for it? My english is not perfect, as you probably noticed... :-D ), should we suppose that's his real name?
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Post by JoJo on Feb 21, 2006 22:47:47 GMT -5
Right, Chuck is nickname for Charles.
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Post by pennylane on Feb 23, 2006 7:44:00 GMT -5
how many bloody Paul's are there?
I still stand by what I've said b4.. I think it could be Paul in the Let It Be film.
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Post by plastic paul on Feb 23, 2006 9:41:44 GMT -5
I know what you mean PL, there's just something about him in LIB, when i've mentioned it elsewhere, people have suggested that it's the beard playing tricks.
One problem I would have with that theory though is that it doesn't really explain why the tension between the others and Paul was so apparent.
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Post by lili on Feb 23, 2006 10:35:19 GMT -5
I honestly don't think that it's Paul during the LIB recording session. Paul & John had their fights, but ... His personality during that recording session is ALL wrong for it being Paul. It seems to me that "Paul" was trying to call the shots. JPM & Johnny had a pretty comfortable relationship. Paul didn't seem to need to assert himself in that way. In the outtake from Think for yourself that Doc is referring to, Paul quickly gets angry & calls John out. Just as quickly, he backs down & things fall back into place. I'm pretty sure that's how it was between John & Paul. Look at the photos from the Revolver sessions. You can see Paul, a man of short stature, being listened to attentively. In one photo, George looks somewhat bored. George Martin is listening very carefully to what Paul has to say. During the Let it Be sessions, you can see that their is a huge amount of tension amongst the people there. Of course Johnny having Yoko up his butt didn't help matters. Still... John looks so angry in some of those photos. I can almost read in his mind, "Why was Paul taken from us ? If I have to deal with this moron for one more day, I'm going to go wonky !" In other photos from that session, he looks like he really did lose his best friend.
I have to find a few of those photos & post them here.
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Post by lili on Feb 23, 2006 14:25:24 GMT -5
Here's a photo that I think shows Paul's relationship with John: Boy, does Paul look ticked off. You can see that his hand is balled into a fist. The others look like they're staying out of it ! Paul really looks nothing like the man from the LIB recording session: John looking bereft, taken during the LIB recording session: Taken sometime during that same time period. John looks like he's in tears.: Paul, taken during the Revolver recording sessions. This is the photo in which I stated George looked "bored": Bill, taken sometime in 1967: As you can see, George Martin is conversing animately with Paul. In the other two photos, he looks like he'd rather be anywhere but there !
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Post by pennylane on Feb 24, 2006 4:57:29 GMT -5
I don't want to get into the dynamic between all of them. But as for John & Paul..
I honestly feel disconnected from the feeling that John & Paul's relationship would've been peachy keen if it was indeed him in the LIB Film. Put aside the the notion that he's dead, or replaced, and pretend for a minute it's really him. People don’t seem to address the enormous, overriding, legendary power-struggle in the Lennon/McCartney dynamic. And when they do, they usually portray Paul as sweet and passive, which is so incredibly contrary to how I see him. Paul is an unmitigated control-freak, and yet he is RARELY presented this way.
I think part of it is probably because Paul, on the outside, IS very sweet and we all know that he loves John very much and has said so 80 million times. But I think the older-version Paul that we know probably has little to do with how Beatle-Paul related to, interacted with and dealt with Beatle-John. In my mind (and feel free to disagree, of course!), Paul was always the dominant one in their personal relationship until the break-up. And John’s method of exerting control, at that time, was to merely withdraw; it seems to me that was probably the most effective method he had.
There’s a comment that Yoko made recently (in the context of the “Mozart/Salieri” fiasco) that really stuck out in my brain… She defended her statements about John’s insecurity by saying that one of the things that “hurt John the most” was how Paul wrestled control of the band from him at the end, and implied that this was a constant fear John had always had (and that finally came true!). I’ve read other things to back this up, too; how before John even invited Paul into the band he was scared of losing control to him... My impression is that John NEVER really felt in control with/of Paul. And breaking apart with him finally was probably a massively liberating experience in terms of feeling FREE and individualistic (you know, the way you feel after getting out of a stifling relationship). This goes a long way to explain why John tried so VERY VERY HARD to disassociate himself from the Beatles afterwards, and why he tried so VERY VERY HARD to promote/assert his own talent, why he was all JOHN JOHN JOHN suddenly… because he probably felt (and WAS) very dominated by Paul when they were together and needed to prove to himself that he had his own worth, independent of Paul. Now of course the ironic part is that he slipped into a similarly co-dependant, obsessive relationship with Yoko (although they at least seemed to work it out together). But this supports my general feeling that John, in essence, was just a very fucking needy, dependant, emotional mutherfucker. He pair-bonded very deeply with two very, very strong personalities who knew how to manage him- and for further proof all we need to look to is the fact that Paul and Yoko are STILL, to this VERY FUCKING DAY, fighting for dominance over him.
That is IF Paul is Paul.
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Post by DarkHorse on Feb 24, 2006 20:43:46 GMT -5
I think JPM and John had a very balanced relationship. John was happy writing with JPM and vice versa. John was the creative force in this band and don't ever forget that. He was the dominant one in the early years, his songwriting was simply better. Compare the songs of the early Beatles, John vs. Paul, John wins hands down. Paul started catching up during the later years but he wasn't even present most of that time. It was Bill and probably his songs were collaborated by John, George Martin and George Harrison. JPM was special but John was the dominant songwriter. The Beatles were his band. As far as their personal relationship, as I said it seemed very balanced and close to me.
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