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Post by Miss Vaggie (Aka ET Girl) on Feb 24, 2006 21:05:15 GMT -5
I think JPM and John had a very balanced relationship. John was happy writing with JPM and vice versa. John was the creative force in this band and don't ever forget that. He was the dominant one in the early years, his songwriting was simply better. Compare the songs of the early Beatles, John vs. Paul, John wins hands down. Paul starting catching up during the later years but he wasn't even present most of that time. It was Bill and probably his songs were collaborated by John, George Martin and George Harrison. JPM was special but John was the dominant songwriter. The Beatles were his band. As far as their personal relationship, as I said it seemed very balanced and close to me. Easily the most sensible and exact description of John and Paul's relationship, both musically and personally that I have ever read on this forum. I agree with this. Not only that, it was John's band, but I'm guessing that drugs helped pull John out of the "leader" role. Macca was more careful about that sort of thing. I'll bet that even while he was high on drugs he was thinking about what he wanted to do next... and how to do it as carefully as possible. Just a guess...
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Post by JoJo on Feb 24, 2006 22:04:35 GMT -5
What we have so far anyway at any length of the pre 67 dynamic is the "Think For Yourself" session, about 15 minutes or so. There also is some banter from the BBC sessions. Post 66, there are the Nagra Tape Rolls, hundreds of hours worth, an uneven comparison to be sure.
About the LIB sessions, there are little things that one might pick up on.. John talking about the live concert they were planning to do, and discussing the song list. John talked about the songs, and how the list of songs showed how "flexible" they could be. (they were early Beatles material, see what I mean?)
Just IMO, but if you watch the LIB movie, you might see the scene where George and Bill have that fight and conclude the source of friction must be that insufferable Bill. If you listen to the Nagra Rolls however, the one who (and this may agree with PL's assesment to a degree) was the cause of most of the rancor was John, easily. (my way or the highway, seemed to be the theme)
On the other hand, it was three (or more really) against one, because whenever John was not there, or out of earshot, the others, including the director and whomever were often gossiping and making some pretty nasty cracks about the John&Yoko situation.
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Post by lili on Feb 24, 2006 22:19:40 GMT -5
Darkhorse said I couldn't have said it better myself. Paul wanted his say and most of the time he got it. However, The Beatles WERE Johnny's band, not Paul's. John & Paul worked very well together. In the earlier songs, I feel that John's lyrics are more complex for the most part. Paul's songs on Revolver are very, very good. If he would've lived ( I believe that he is dead ) the band would've really grown. Who knows what wonderful songs Paul would've written as he continued to mature JoJo, that is so tacky of them to talk behind Johnny's back. No wonder John was so miserable I wonder what they had to say about Yoko ?
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Post by il ras on Feb 24, 2006 23:00:45 GMT -5
I think that the period in which Paul started to become as important as John, inside the band, can be collocated more or less when John wasn't able to make "Day Tripper" be issued as side A of the 45 instead of "We Can Work It Out".
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Post by Miss Vaggie (Aka ET Girl) on Feb 24, 2006 23:04:42 GMT -5
I think that the period in which Paul started to become as important as John, inside the band, can be collocated more or less when John wasn't able to make "Day Tripper" be issued as side A of the 45 instead of "We Can Work It Out". Interesting, Lili. I guess it only takes one won battle to start things in Macca's direction.. I guess. Btw, I think Day Tripper was the better song. Just MHO.
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Post by il ras on Feb 26, 2006 1:47:35 GMT -5
I think that the period in which Paul started to become as important as John, inside the band, can be collocated more or less when John wasn't able to make "Day Tripper" be issued as side A of the 45 instead of "We Can Work It Out". Interesting, Lili. Or you quoted the wrong person or you put the wrong name.... I hope, since I haven't decided to change name and sex yet ;D
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Post by TotalInformation on Mar 29, 2006 13:58:52 GMT -5
Well, I just listened to Faul sing Blackbird on "Chaos & Creation in Abbey Rd" teevee special.
It sounded horrible.
Faul's recent performances of Let It Be, Get Back, even Helter Skelter sounded closer to the original recordings. I have think the record release was an old JPM vocal.
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Post by il ras on Mar 29, 2006 17:23:26 GMT -5
There is also the "MTV Unplugged" version. What do you guys think about it?
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Post by lili on Mar 30, 2006 10:25:30 GMT -5
Total Information, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they took an old JPM recording of Blackbird & "faulized" it. That would explain why Bill can't get it right. The unplugged songs that I've hear Bill sing were atrocious. I heard him attempt We Can Work it Out. He blew the lyrics almost immediately. He apologized to everyone there, & then he started it again.
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Post by jarvitronics on Jul 24, 2007 15:02:33 GMT -5
You were only waiting for this moment to arise.
Arise or Aries?
Ram on blackbird.
-j
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Post by LOVELYRITA on Jul 25, 2007 17:06:35 GMT -5
blackbird...or blacksheep???
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c
Hard Day's Night
Posts: 8
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Post by c on Dec 16, 2008 20:11:19 GMT -5
I was wondering, is Paul (?) playing his guitar upside down in this clip? Because it reminds me of a clip I saw of another famous lefty who is also playing her guitar upside down. I had heard of her before, but I never heard her 'til just recently. I wish I'd heard her sooner, she's just lovely. It feels awkward putting her in this "blackbird" business but I guess she could be considered a "black bird" by Paul's explanation of the song. Plus she has a number nine in the song and when I read she named her daughter Lily it made me think of the Macca man. I read that John and Paul might have heard her song "Freight Train" performed by Nancy Whiskey before they had formed the Beatles. www.musiciansnews.com/guitars/68/martin_guitar_company_releases_the_00_18ctn_elizabeth_cotten.shtml
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Post by puzzled on Dec 16, 2008 21:20:46 GMT -5
Lilies, lilies everywhere!
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Post by sunsoflight on Dec 17, 2008 1:18:02 GMT -5
There is a difference. She is playing a right handed guitar, left handed, but strung for a right handed player. His guitar is strung for a left handed player which is correct. I was in a band once with a left handed guitar player who learned like she did but he eventually turned it around over time.
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c
Hard Day's Night
Posts: 8
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Post by c on Dec 17, 2008 1:40:47 GMT -5
Oh, ok Sun. I just saw the teardrop in the same spot and thought they were both holding the guitar upside down and playing the same way. Paul's face and hands look very swollen! He and she have a vulnerable quality in these clips. They both seem kind of sad, yet patient as the guys on their left hand side interrupt their playing. Yeah Puzzled, a whole field of them.
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Post by Doc on Dec 17, 2008 2:03:14 GMT -5
I was wondering, is Paul (?) playing his guitar upside down in this clip? Because it reminds me of a clip I saw of another famous lefty who is also playing her guitar upside down. I had heard of her before, but I never heard her 'til just recently. I wish I'd heard her sooner, she's just lovely. It feels awkward putting her in this "blackbird" business but I guess she could be considered a "black bird" by Paul's explanation of the song. Plus she has a number nine in the song and when I read she named her daughter Lily it made me think of the Macca man. I read that John and Paul might have heard her song "Freight Train" performed by Nancy Whiskey before they had formed the Beatles. www.musiciansnews.com/guitars/68/martin_guitar_company_releases_the_00_18ctn_elizabeth_cotten.shtmlAfter seeing that clip a number of times, I have come to the opinion that that is Paul. The film quality is old, poor, distorted, but the person seen playing there I believe is actually JPM. So, either Blackbird was being created earlier than we have thought, or, JPM was sneaking in and out of Abbey Road during the making of the so-called WA.
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Post by sunsoflight on Dec 17, 2008 2:28:06 GMT -5
c,
I just said that for information's sake and wasn't trying to show you up or anything ill intended. Hope you didn't take it that way. The guitar had to be modified at the headstock to be strung for a leftie.
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Post by B on Dec 17, 2008 6:16:03 GMT -5
Roger Daltry says "Lily" at 3:15 here, out of the blue, so to speak, but it seems to evoke smiles from his bandmates. I guess the question is: "Who are you, Lily?" Townshend points to the control booth; perhaps Lily is there. Who are Youca.youtube.com/watch?v=l_FZVD5lsAwI've already posted this song in the PID suspect songs thread. Check out the wings on bassist John Entwistle's jacket.
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Post by GN on Dec 17, 2008 11:49:25 GMT -5
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c
Hard Day's Night
Posts: 8
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Post by c on Dec 17, 2008 12:50:55 GMT -5
No, no, not at all, Sun. I really know not too much about too much anyways *smile*
I actually appreciate the information because I'm here to learn.
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Dec 17, 2008 13:51:29 GMT -5
Roger Daltry says "Lily" at 3:15 here, out of the blue, so to speak, but it seems to evoke smiles from his bandmates. I guess the question is: "Who are you, Lily?" Townshend points to the control booth; perhaps Lily is there. Who are Youca.youtube.com/watch?v=l_FZVD5lsAwI've already posted this song in the PID suspect songs thread. Check out the wings on bassist John Entwistle's jacket. B, I think Daltrey says "nearly", not Lily. He's indicating that he nearly got the scream perfect, but not quite. This doesn't mean that I don't think the song is about Paul/Bill, though, because I DO.
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Post by B on Dec 17, 2008 20:48:15 GMT -5
Oh good. Thanks for the correction. I thought it was a bit strange! ;D
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Post by bbkings on Dec 25, 2008 0:27:43 GMT -5
A blackbird will pluck the eyes out of a corpse, as most carrion birds would. But I don't think the song is really requesting that the blackbird take "sunken" eyes and learn to see. I think it's offering the blackbird "Sun King" eyes to see with.
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