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Post by JoJo on Sept 15, 2008 20:47:07 GMT -5
The latest is Lehman going chapter 11, but much more to the story of course. The Dow dropped just a shade over 500 today, it might rally back up this week if the magicians work their dark arts to keep it going for a little while longer..
What do you think is on the horizon?
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Post by B on Sept 15, 2008 21:32:34 GMT -5
The Bermuda Triangle
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Sept 15, 2008 22:24:16 GMT -5
The latest is Lehman going chapter 11, but much more to the story of course. The Dow dropped just a shade over 500 today, it might rally back up this week if the magicians work their dark arts to keep it going for a little while longer.. What do you think is on the horizon? Well, it's completely f*$@ed. It's just been a matter of waiting until the banksters stole everything they could possibly steal while still having chairs left to sit in when the music stopped. I think we may be out of chairs, though. The thing is, it's really hard for you or me to know when we're *really* out of chairs, because when you own the printing press (the Fed), you can always make more chairs. Know what I mean? Something tells me that this pyramid scheme has run it's course, though, and we're in the final death throws. If the slide continues tomorrow (and the Nikkei and Hang Seng are looking pretty grim at the moment), then I'd say it's because the banksters WANT it to continue, which means that it's all over, baby blue. Nikkei 225 11,596.09 -618.67 -5.06% Hang Seng 18,225.65 -1,127.25 -5.82%
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Post by Doc on Sept 16, 2008 3:06:55 GMT -5
If our economy goes under, and it cause the world economy immense challenges (to say the least), then a lot of nations might tend to look unfavorably upon the US and our culpability in this matter. Of course, I thought "business"was in modern times, pretty much handled the same the world over, with fiat money, a debt system of capitalization, and more and more centralizing of banking. Etc.
Too complex for me.
If our losses have a ripple effect in Japan and Europe (for starters) that might be apt to treat us with political disdain. At a minimum.
I am hoping the US sees a reprieve, monetarily. But policy makers need to learn some broad lessons from all this. I.e. the Senate, the Republican Party, the Bush administration, the Fed, the banks. Hell, everyone in a high position.
Easy home loans driven by greed is the major factor, is it not?
It would be great if someone would please amplify on this theme who is into it and has a good foundation in contemporary economics.
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Post by JoJo on Sept 16, 2008 4:48:52 GMT -5
Calling in an expert: www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?forum=TickerThe owner of the forum lists his blog posts in the above section, with the forum serving as a place to make comments, but the blog is where you get the real education. Highly recommended.
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Sept 16, 2008 7:55:40 GMT -5
Calling in an expert: www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?forum=TickerThe owner of the forum lists his blog posts in the above section, with the forum serving as a place to make comments, but the blog is where you get the real education. Highly recommended. Calling in an expert: www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?forum=TickerThe owner of the forum lists his blog posts in the above section, with the forum serving as a place to make comments, but the blog is where you get the real education. Highly recommended. I keep an eye on ticker forum, JoJo. Good info. And Doc, I wish the situation could be explained as a result of wall street's greed and the sub-prime mess, but like everything else in this world, there are no "accidents". In fact, the entire system of fiat currency and fractional reserve banking is a literal PYRAMID scheme, designed to eventually funnel everything of value to the top few. In this particular case, that means the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, and a few other evil international banking families. Watch this series to get a good introduction to what's really going on: www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8
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Post by JoJo on Sept 16, 2008 20:39:03 GMT -5
That's a great video, watch the rest of the series: What's chilling is the idea of no dept = no money. And consider this: If I'm someone with a subprime or other loan I can't possibly pay off, why would I bother doing anything other than send the keys to the bank and walk away? What, I'm supposed to feel shame doing such a thing? Well guess what, shame or not, many many people are in this position, as you can't reasonably expect someone flipping burgers at McDonald's to pay back a loan on a $500,000 house. How many loans like this are out there? Way WAY too many.. It's OK, the mortgage originators and real estate agents got theirs.. And the investors betting that the value of these "loan assets" would go up forever got theirs.. Bear Stearns and Lehman told them so.. Oops.. Foreclosures = no dept = no money.. (as a foreclosed property owner is not paying off the dept) What to do, oh my.. Oh yeah, tell the debtors with the worst subprime loans to refinance, and they only have to pay 90% of what they owe, and we'll call it a "bailout". The taxpayer will pick up the tab, yay! www.youtube.com/watch?v=sanOXoWl0kcwww.youtube.com/watch?v=kTv1fo6sKmowww.youtube.com/watch?v=3qicabStQkcwww.youtube.com/watch?v=7kpSbkaD4tM
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Post by B on Sept 16, 2008 23:17:40 GMT -5
Read my lips: DERIVATIVES. Not bad home loans, though that didn't help. The banks not only lent money they didn't have, investment companies "sold" the worthless debt as investments to suckers and foreign countries. the big lie:finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/105782/How-We-Got-Here-It-Is-Housing-Stupid"How We Got Here: It's Housing, Stupid by Chris Isidore Thursday, September 18, 2008 The Wall Street crisis has been caused by plunging housing prices. So despite the billions of dollars being thrown at the problem, experts say more trouble lies ahead...."
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Sept 17, 2008 15:05:17 GMT -5
That's a great video, watch the rest of the series: What's chilling is the idea of no dept = no money. And consider this: If I'm someone with a subprime or other loan I can't possibly pay off, why would I bother doing anything other than send the keys to the bank and walk away? What, I'm supposed to feel shame doing such a thing? Well guess what, shame or not, many many people are in this position, as you can't reasonably expect someone flipping burgers at McDonald's to pay back a loan on a $500,000 house. How many loans like this are out there? Way WAY too many.. It's OK, the mortgage originators and real estate agents got theirs.. And the investors betting that the value of these "loan assets" would go up forever got theirs.. Bear Stearns and Lehman told them so.. Oops.. Foreclosures = no dept = no money.. (as a foreclosed property owner is not paying off the dept) What to do, oh my.. Oh yeah, tell the debtors with the worst subprime loans to refinance, and they only have to pay 90% of what they owe, and we'll call it a "bailout". The taxpayer will pick up the tab, yay! Yes -- it is a great series. I've found it to be the perfect introduction into the world of "everything you know is wrong". Cognitive dissonance usually keeps people from believing that their world has been run by the same group of shadowy people for hundreds if not thousands of years. Once a person accepts that the world economy is nothing more than a pyramid scheme, with bankers and politicians sitting at the top, they're more likely to be open to the idea that EVERYTHING is rigged. So, I guess that makes these videos the gateway drug to the real reality. ;D Seriously, though.
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Sept 19, 2008 12:10:18 GMT -5
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Post by JoJo on Sept 21, 2008 17:23:32 GMT -5
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Post by faulconandsnowjob on Sept 21, 2008 18:46:02 GMT -5
Some reporters & an economist (author of "Bad Money") on Bill Moyers this past Friday said the D-word :-( Yep, it's looking pretty bad...
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Post by JoJo on Sept 21, 2008 21:24:32 GMT -5
I read somewhere, think it was in the Boston Globe today, something about how "we need to get home prices rising again"..
Put down the crack pipe..
The median home price needs to be at best 3X the median income, which means they have a LONG way to go before it's realistic. Or, only the upper classes can afford a house, take your pick, and since wages aren't going up anytime soon with the only thing we produce in this country anymore is paper shuffling..
They did the only thing left to do in their insane courses of action.. really quite predictable. Only way left to win from this is an over/under on when this comes crashing down. Anyone?
I'll say two weeks.
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Sept 21, 2008 21:48:44 GMT -5
I read somewhere, think it was in the Boston Globe today, something about how "we need to get home prices rising again".. Put down the crack pipe.. The median home price needs to be at best 3X the median income, which means they have a LONG way to go before it's realistic. Or, only the upper classes can afford a house, take your pick, and since wages aren't going up anytime soon with the only thing we produce in this country anymore is paper shuffling.. They did the only thing left to do in their insane courses of action.. really quite predictable. Only way left to win from this is an over/under on when this comes crashing down. Anyone? I'll say two weeks. I work in the financial district (though not in the finance field), and had lunch last Thursday at a pub a block from the Exchange. I went specifically to overhear some scoop, so I sat at the bar next to a couple of fifty-something traders, who had obviously been around the block a bunch of times, and have seen just about everything. Well, these guys were having a liquid lunch and were scared shitless about AIG. The bartender kept saying "c'mon guys, there's gotta be a way to fix this", and they kept saying "you don't understand, this is UNFIXABLE." You know what? They're right. This *could* get seriously ugly as soon as tomorrow, and at the very least, I'm reasonably certain that we won't make it to the election without some kind of major event to take our eyes off of the economic ball (so to speak). I don't want to get all doomy on you guys, but the only thing that a $700 billion "bailout" is going to do is protect some corporations, keep Wall Street alive a little bit longer, and deflate the dollar (inflation) in ways we never thought imaginable. Miss La(i)ne and I have been stocking up on water, canned goods, and pet food for months now. I hope I'm wrong, but it's good to be prepared. Oh, and here's a good read, but NOT for the faint of heart: theinternationalforecaster.com/International_Forecaster_Weekly/Half_a_Trillion_Bailout_For_The_Creators_of_the_Market_Crisis
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Sept 22, 2008 10:06:55 GMT -5
I just read through the text of the bailout proposal and noticed that it's basically a coup d'etat without firing a shot.
Observe:Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets. ....... (b) Necessary Actions.--The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation: (1) appointing such employees as may be required to carry out the authorities in this Act and defining their duties; (2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts; ...... (5) issuing such regulations and other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to define terms or carry out the authorities of this Act. .... Sec. 8. Review. Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency. Well, how nice for the UNELECTED Secretary.Read it all here: www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/business/21draftcnd.html
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Post by tenorsfan on Sept 22, 2008 20:48:41 GMT -5
I wonder if this might their way of introducing the new North American currency between Canada USA and Mexico, like the Eurodollar in Europe, that gets brought up from time to time and shouted down just as quickly. That way the next time China empties a container ship of it's all slave labour goodies, the US gov could ask the China gov, "so how much do we owe you altogether, now?' and when the China says "ten trillion", the US could print ten trillion worth and fill up the dumb container ship and send it back to China and say, "We're even", and tell all it's citizens, "If you're smart, you'll trade all your US dollars for these new Noram dollars quick as a bunny, and when China gets it's ship back and starts yelling, "These dollars no good", Uncle Sam can tell them, "Sure they are boy, give us a thousand of 'em and we'll give you one of our Norams." Who says economics is difficult.
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Post by faulconandsnowjob on Sept 22, 2008 22:44:58 GMT -5
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
Before everyone freaks about this proposed law, just bear in mind that the Administrative Procedure Act should curb what looks like unfettered Secretary authority. For ex, I don't think the language in yellow above would stand up to judicial scrutiny. Oh, the irony, they try to write the courts out of the process, but the courts are the ones who have to interpret what the law means (Marbury v. Madison). Doh! :-P
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Post by thisone on Sept 22, 2008 22:55:40 GMT -5
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Post by thisone on Sept 23, 2008 17:23:44 GMT -5
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Sept 23, 2008 19:26:35 GMT -5
Wow, Max Keiser is THE SHIT for speaking all of that truth. Not that it it's going to do any good, but it was nice to hear someone who is: 1. Smart enough to understand that this entire scenario of "economic meltdown" has been ENGINEERED by the same pieces of shit that are "bailing it out". 2. Fearless enough to go on record saying it. Oh, and Henry Paulson as Colonel Kurtz = BEST ANALOGY EVER!
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Post by JoJo on Sept 23, 2008 20:35:23 GMT -5
One item he mentioned that I've read maybe once only on Market Ticker, that the 700 billion is more like a revolving line of credit, rather than a one time thing.. Like a credit card. Also like that he invokes the imagery of pitchforks. (don't forget the torches)
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Post by JoJo on Sept 23, 2008 20:58:44 GMT -5
Ben Stein almost lets out the Big Secretwww.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/23/133349/153/556/607628(the below is not Ben Stein's words, they're from the blogger) Somebody, somewhere, is blackmailing the economy. Because somebody, somewhere, is owed these TRILLIONS of dollars. And it is THEY who are holding a gun to the economy and demanding payment, and all of Wall Street, and even the Fed, cannot pay this debt.
So WHO is this Tony Soprano-like world figure? Who are these people? Why are we not identifying them, and talking to them, and negotiating with THEM, whoever they are, to keep from bankrupting the American economy in their favor?
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Post by Doc on Sept 23, 2008 23:56:02 GMT -5
Ben Stein almost lets out the Big Secretwww.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/23/133349/153/556/607628(the below is not Ben Stein's words, they're from the blogger) Somebody, somewhere, is blackmailing the economy. Because somebody, somewhere, is owed these TRILLIONS of dollars. And it is THEY who are holding a gun to the economy and demanding payment, and all of Wall Street, and even the Fed, cannot pay this debt.
So WHO is this Tony Soprano-like world figure? Who are these people? Why are we not identifying them, and talking to them, and negotiating with THEM, whoever they are, to keep from bankrupting the American economy in their favor? Well, space aliens don't need paper currency..so......uhm......and the Fed is run by a Private British Firm in tandem with other Europeans and Jews......so not them.... uhm...........Beijing? Not likely. The Dutch? No, they have oil. As do the Arab nations. Must be God. God don't NEED the money, per se, but maybe he's gone into High Finance. It's out of this world, seemingly. But I don't really think He's got interest in North American markets. So...who else...... Oh, well, how OBVIOUS! Of course! I should have known! WHy didn't I see thisright away? He needs additional capital for the prize money. *Yes, I know that Ben Stein did not write the entry about the blackmail.
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Post by Doc on Sept 24, 2008 0:04:16 GMT -5
I just read through the text of the bailout proposal and noticed that it's basically a coup d'etat without firing a shot.
Observe:Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets. ....... (b) Necessary Actions.--The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation: (1) appointing such employees as may be required to carry out the authorities in this Act and defining their duties; (2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts; ...... (5) issuing such regulations and other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to define terms or carry out the authorities of this Act. .... Sec. 8. Review. Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency. Well, how nice for the UNELECTED Secretary.Read it all here: www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/business/21draftcnd.html Meaning that Americans only have at the access, the currency of a foreign corporation at their disposal to spend. I.e. we as Americans do NOT have a de facto American currency system. We live on money loaned to us by an oversees concern. Why DON'T we have any real assets of our own? Who owns the land, the title to our cars, our mortgages and housing deeds, our savings accounts, our clothes, our food, our intangibles? Not US. We're living on loan.
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Sept 24, 2008 7:52:14 GMT -5
Ben Stein almost lets out the Big Secretwww.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/23/133349/153/556/607628(the below is not Ben Stein's words, they're from the blogger) Somebody, somewhere, is blackmailing the economy. Because somebody, somewhere, is owed these TRILLIONS of dollars. And it is THEY who are holding a gun to the economy and demanding payment, and all of Wall Street, and even the Fed, cannot pay this debt.
So WHO is this Tony Soprano-like world figure? Who are these people? Why are we not identifying them, and talking to them, and negotiating with THEM, whoever they are, to keep from bankrupting the American economy in their favor? Well, space aliens don't need paper currency..so......uhm......and the Fed is run by a Private British Firm in tandem with other Europeans and Jews......so not them.... uhm...........Beijing? Not likely. The Dutch? No, they have oil. As do the Arab nations. Must be God. God don't NEED the money, per se, but maybe he's gone into High Finance. It's out of this world, seemingly. But I don't really think He's got interest in North American markets. So...who else...... Oh, well, how OBVIOUS! Of course! I should have known! WHy didn't I see thisright away? He needs additional capital for the prize money. *Yes, I know that Ben Stein did not write the entry about the blackmail. Hint: remember when all of those European Monarchs so graciously gave up all of their power? Well, they didn't really give it up.
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