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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Sept 21, 2008 21:27:55 GMT -5
I know that we all KNOW that the version of The Fool On The Hill on MMT was not sung by JPM; otherwise, I suppose we wouldn't be here.
If anyone didn't believe it though, we could all just direct them to this thread and have them do a side by side comparison of the demo to the *official* version.
Fool On The Hill Demo:
Fool On The Hill from MMT:
The demo is in the same key as the MMT version, so that's not an explanation for the drastically different voice.
Again, I know that you all know this, but every once in a while I think it's useful to reexamine the evidence...
Oh, and thanks for the birthday wishes, B and I.
Roger, over. ;D
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Post by MikeNL on Sept 22, 2008 5:10:02 GMT -5
It has to do with that you have a morning voice and a evening voice.
in the first one, his voice has more bass in it.
in the second, it sounds higher.
but it still sounds like the same person to me.
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Post by faulconandsnowjob on Sept 22, 2008 19:11:50 GMT -5
Ok, to me it sounds like the same voice, only that the 2nd (MMT version) has been made to sound higher-pitched. I don't know anything about sound engineering, but I think that could be done in the studio, right? Anyway, it sounds like there's some effect on the voice to me.
Lady Madonna has major effects on the voice. Just a way to disguise the voice, imo.
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Post by JoJo on Sept 22, 2008 20:49:17 GMT -5
Better to use the two demos from Anthology, and I vaguely remember that being a topic of discussion here years ago. Well, the first Youtube link is from Anthology, the other Anth. version is not here, and to me it always sounded, at least at times, like George trying his best to imitate.. (or someone other than Paul at least) Forget the MMT version, that's been through the blender.
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Post by tafultong on Sept 22, 2008 22:21:20 GMT -5
They did sometimes speed up or slow down the songs by semitones. Obviously they did both on "Strawberry Fields Forever" but they did similar tricks on other tracks as well. I think you'll find that in books by George Martin and Geoff Emerick. I don't think "Fool on the Hill" was specifically mentioned, but I know they increased the pitch and tempo of "When I'm Sixty-Four."
The first time I ever heard "Fool on the Hill" I thought that Paul sang the first line and John the second. This was before I knew anything about PID. It is interesting that the song mentions "the man of a thousand voices." Maybe that's who sang it.
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Post by skyward on Sept 22, 2008 23:25:01 GMT -5
The first time I ever heard "Fool on the Hill" I thought that Paul sang the first line and John the second. This was before I knew anything about PID. It is interesting that the song mentions "the man of a thousand voices." Maybe that's who sang it. Isn't there a bootleg/session outtake that has Macca singing and talking with different voices, like an Elmer Fudd? |
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Post by faulconandsnowjob on Sept 22, 2008 23:58:33 GMT -5
This might have been the first Faul & not Macca...
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Post by Doc on Sept 23, 2008 0:10:08 GMT -5
It has to do with that you have a morning voice and a evening voice. in the first one, his voice has more bass in it. in the second, it sounds higher. but it still sounds like the same person to me. I tend to concur. Same person, different state of voice as in time of day or dryness of cords, slight hoarseness, maybe just one too many cigarettes, sometimes a quick brandy helps....... ...which reminds me. Where is my Baileys? |
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Sept 23, 2008 9:50:30 GMT -5
Well, I disagree, but other than saying "I'm right and you're all wrong", I don't know where else to take this.
;D
I will just mention though, that I think Fool On The Hill could easily have been a song that existed prior to September 66 (thus, the demo). And melodically, it would have fit nicely on Revolver, next to For No One, and Here There And Everywhere, albeit with a different arrangement.
Lastly, I always thought of Fool On The Hill as McCartney's answer to Lennon's Nowhere Man, which also would put it's writing more in 66 than 67.
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Post by faulconandsnowjob on Sept 23, 2008 12:19:14 GMT -5
On 2nd thought, the voice in the demo Fool sounds a lot like Paul (comparing it to Yesterday), so maybe you're right. The voice in the MMT Fool doesn't sound like Paul at all. I think maybe it is Paul on the demo & Faul on MMT.
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Post by TotalInformation on Sept 27, 2008 17:28:23 GMT -5
Concur. JPM saw himself very much as The Fool. Cf. Her Majesty, Midsummer Pyramus Thisbe sketch etc
As for the MMT version, by then The Fool was the man of a thousand voices -- the vocals are probably a mix of JPM sped-up, FAUL, and maybe Lennon imitating JPM also.
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Post by DarkHorse on Sept 27, 2008 21:45:57 GMT -5
I am sticking with what was previously thought about Fool On The Hill and that is that it was written after September '66 and it was about JPM's dead body lying there day after day on the hill after the accident or murder.
It's a Lennon song. Listen to the lyrics, the way they rhyme, etc.
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Post by TotalInformation on Sept 27, 2008 22:31:22 GMT -5
Lennon finished the lyrics, definitely. Listen to how sparse the demo lyrics are. Lennon was writing about The Fool as both JPM and BEATLE-PAUL.
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Post by faulconandsnowjob on Sept 27, 2008 22:34:24 GMT -5
Ok, but I think Paul wrote the music & the lyrics for Fool. I know it's tempting to see this song as being about Faul, but I think it may be about someone Paul has to work with - someone who was up to no good! "And nobody seems to like him they can tell what he wants to do" [lyrics at www.stevesbeatles.com/songs/the_fool_on_the_hill.asp]Maybe some baddie at the Tavistock Institute...? |
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Post by TotalInformation on Sept 27, 2008 23:31:33 GMT -5
And of course, Lennon mixed audio (concerning doubles / stolen identitiy & death!) into MMT (Walrus) from King Lear. In King Lear, The Fool is a jester. He has a privileged relationship with Lear; no one else would get away with taunting him the way the Fool does, through riddles and insults. The king's Fool presents a steady commentary on surrounding events — in prose and verse. The Fool functions much as a Chorus would in a Greek tragedy, commenting upon events and the king's actions and acting, in some ways, as the king's conscience... able to point out the king's faults, as no one else can. The Fool's use of irony, sarcasm, and humor help to ease the truth, and allows him to moderate Lear's behavior.
Manly P Hall: "The zero card--Le Mat, the Fool--has been likened to the material universe because the mortal sphere is the world of unreality. The lower universe, like the mortal body of man, is but a garment, a motley costume, well likened to cap and bells. Beneath the garments of the fool is the divine substance, however, of which the jester is but a shadow; . . . . Was not this zero card (the Fool) placed in the Tarot deck to deceive all who could not pierce the veil of illusion?"
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Post by iameye on Sept 27, 2008 23:48:51 GMT -5
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Post by DarkHorse on Sept 28, 2008 0:06:27 GMT -5
Lennon was writing about The Fool as both JPM and BEATLE-PAUL. I can see that too. I get that JPM often had a tough time getting along with people. Perhaps he was too arrogant or people didn't understand him. |
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Post by Doc on Sept 28, 2008 3:22:30 GMT -5
Lennon was writing about The Fool as both JPM and BEATLE-PAUL. I can see that too. I get that JPM often had a tough time getting along with people. Perhaps he was too arrogant or people didn't understand him. With his amp'ed up intelligence level, it must have been hard to be patient with the stupid. But I suspect he also suffered from an annoying compassion for people, people with problems, even people cursed with stupidity, which, frustratingly for him, elicited a kind disposition toward such persons in spite of personal irritation he felt for them at the same time. Like----- "I really feel bad for you and want to help; though you make me wish to tear out my hair and smash your glasses at the same time." |
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Post by faulconandsnowjob on Sept 28, 2008 12:14:32 GMT -5
I get that JPM often had a tough time getting along with people. Perhaps he was too arrogant or people didn't understand him.
I never heard that about Paul. I always got that he was fun & people liked being around him. Not that you can believe anything in the Beatles biographies, but I always got it was Faul who didn't get along w/ people - at least, not w/ the other Beatles.
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Post by TotalInformation on Sept 29, 2008 0:44:27 GMT -5
You have to put the pejorative "fool" completely out of your mind and focus on the classical/esoteric "Fool."  Fool on the Hill "Nobody wants to hear him" - the Establishment (and most of the fans) want Paul/Beatles to just shut up and sing -- this was probably written around the time of the record burnings. Their political and metaphysical commentary was not particularly welcomed -- even though: "the man with the foolish grin is talking perfectly loud" -- it's all there in the music. "But nobody wants to hear him." "He never gives an answer" - Think of how many times in press conferences he/they deflected serious issues with wit, humor, etc. Those are some of the lines from the original lyric by JPM. These threads in the Beatles lives' and work continued after JPM died and Lennon was able to draw on that as he finished the song about the Fool "with a thousand voices." |
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Post by iameye on Sept 29, 2008 9:54:10 GMT -5
You have to put the pejorative "fool" completely out of your mind and focus on the classical/esoteric "Fool." Fool on the Hill "Nobody wants to hear him" - the Establishment (and most of the fans) want Paul/Beatles to just shut up and sing -- this was probably written around the time of the record burnings. Their political and metaphysical commentary was not particularly welcomed -- even though: "the man with the foolish grin is talking perfectly loud" -- it's all there in the music. "But nobody wants to hear him." "He never gives an answer" - Think of how many times in press conferences he/they deflected serious issues with wit, humor, etc. Those are some of the lines from the original lyric by JPM. These threads in the Beatles lives' and work continued after JPM died and Lennon was able to draw on that as he finished the song about the Fool "with a thousand voices." other familiar fools:      |
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Post by faulconandsnowjob on Oct 1, 2008 18:33:44 GMT -5
I'm starting to think there is a lot of Paul on the Anthology. Listen to "Blackbird" & "I Will" & compare them to the White Album versions :-)
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