William Sargant - Pepper?

[B]

This may be the guy.
I have to thank plasticmacca at PID Miss Him who posted about this character in the thread there
called Rocky Raccoon, McGill & MKUlTRA.

I never could quite figure out who Sgt Pepper was supposed to be.
Some had said Crowley, but I've never felt that he fit the bill.

Nor have I ever been enthused about the notion that some espouse, that the Beatles were
poor abused mind-controlled slaves who answered to CIA-type "controllers", and that
when Paul refused to go along with "the plan", he was cold-bloodedly murdered, as a threat
to the others to keep them in line. Had that been the case, I doubt that they would have been
able to perform at all, much less continue to write and perform great music.

However I have felt that the "Pepper" part of the "Sgt Pepper" name was somehow intended
to relate to heat, and by extension: hell, the devil, etc. in some way.
I've felt that Paul's replacement by Faul was part of a public drama of sorts, indicating that
the 'good' Paul had been replaced by the 'evil' Faul, and hence the name 'Pepper' was used
as a clue.

Still... I never could figure out who Pepper was supposed to be, other than Faul, as 'the devil incarnate'.

Until now, that is. I had been unaware of Dr. William_Sargant, a 'monster' of sorts.




from wikipedia:
William Walters Sargant (24 April 1907 - 27 August 1988) was a controversial British psychiatrist
who is remembered for the evangelical zeal with which he promoted treatments such as
psychosurgery, deep sleep treatment, electroconvulsive therapy and insulin shock therapy.
Sargant studied medicine at St John's College, Cambridge... (etc.)

Please read the rest for yourself.



If the Beatles albums collectively tell a story, perhaps Dr. Sargant was one of the people they wanted
us to know about. As a 'mind-control' "expert", he would be someone they could point to
as "the doctor from hell", or someone who was involved in whatever happened with Paul.
They might not have been able to mention him by name (directly), but indirectly, with
the reference to "Sgt."

I seem to recall reading that the original name for "Sgt Pepper" was going to be "Dr. Pepper's Lonely
Hearts Club Band", but that the name was altered due to the obvious problem that would
have resulted due to the use of the name "Dr. Pepper", which is a well-known soda brand in the USA.


Songs like "Mr. Bellamy", relating to someone being in an institution, or having mental problems,
may point to the practices of William Sargant and others.

Don't get me wrong. If Faul was possibly supposed to be "the devil" who "used to be bad",
he none-the-less is supposed to be seen now as someone who is a "good guy", carrying on the
mission of Paul, imo. And Faul may NEVER have been intended to be seen as the devil or a bad guy.
How "Sgt Pepper" 'taught the band to play' is still not apparent, but somehow I think we're in the
ballpark here, somehow.

I'll try to clarify this if it needs some clarifying. ;D

[B]

"Somebody spoke, and I went into a dream"
"Are you going to be in my dream, tonight?"
"I'm only sleeping"
"Good morning, good morning, good morning! (Cockadoodle doo!)"
"Listen to the song they sing Awakening"

I suspect that the Pink Floyd album cover shown above depicts one of Sargant's 'sleepers'
who didn't wake up. An unfortunate victim. Symbolic of us all being 'asleep' as a metaphor.

One who was left behind, dreaming about us?

[P(D)enny La(i)ne]

Aug 19, 2010 8:37:27 GMT -5 B said:

This may be the guy.
I have to thank plasticmacca at PID Miss Him who posted about this character in the thread there
called Rocky Raccoon, McGill & MKUlTRA.

I never could quite figure out who Sgt Pepper was supposed to be.
Some had said Crowley, but I've never felt that he fit the bill.

Nor have I ever been enthused about the notion that some espouse, that the Beatles were
poor abused mind-controlled slaves who answered to CIA-type "controllers", and that
when Paul refused to go along with "the plan", he was cold-bloodedly murdered, as a threat
to the others to keep them in line. Had that been the case, I doubt that they would have been
able to perform at all, much less continue to write and perform great music.

However I have felt that the "Pepper" part of the "Sgt Pepper" name was somehow intended
to relate to heat, and by extension: hell, the devil, etc. in some way.
I've felt that Paul's replacement by Faul was part of a public drama of sorts, indicating that
the 'good' Paul had been replaced by the 'evil' Faul, and hence the name 'Pepper' was used
as a clue.

Still... I never could figure out who Pepper was supposed to be, other than Faul, as 'the devil incarnate'.

Until now, that is. I had been unaware of Dr. William_Sargant, a 'monster' of sorts.

from wikipedia:
William Walters Sargant (24 April 1907 - 27 August 1988) was a controversial British psychiatrist
who is remembered for the evangelical zeal with which he promoted treatments such as
psychosurgery, deep sleep treatment, electroconvulsive therapy and insulin shock therapy.
Sargant studied medicine at St John's College, Cambridge... (etc.)

Please read the rest for yourself.



If the Beatles albums collectively tell a story, perhaps Dr. Sargant was one of the people they wanted
us to know about. As a 'mind-control' "expert", he would be someone they could point to
as "the doctor from hell", or someone who was involved in whatever happened with Paul.
They might not have been able to mention him by name (directly), but indirectly, with
the reference to "Sgt."

I seem to recall reading that the original name for "Sgt Pepper" was going to be "Dr. Pepper's Lonely
Hearts Club Band", but that the name was altered due to the obvious problem that would
have resulted due to the use of the name "Dr. Pepper", which is a well-known soda brand in the USA.


Songs like "Mr. Bellamy", relating to someone being in an institution, or having mental problems,
may point to the practices of William Sargant and others.

Don't get me wrong. If Faul was possibly supposed to be "the devil" who "used to be bad",
he none-the-less is supposed to be seen now as someone who is a "good guy", carrying on the
mission of Paul, imo. And Faul may NEVER have been intended to be seen as the devil or a bad guy.
How "Sgt Pepper" 'taught the band to play' is still not apparent, but somehow I think we're in the
ballpark here, somehow.

I'll try to clarify this if it needs some clarifying. ;D

Well, he IS named Bill...

Here's a BBC radio program from 2009 called Revealing the Mind Bender General:

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6945115089996021736#

"In 1938 Sargant was awarded a Rockefeller Fellowship to spend a year at Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts under Professor Stanley Cobb."

"In recent years writer Gordon Thomas has suggested that Sargant's experiments with deep sleep treatment were part of British involvement with the CIA MKULTRA programme into mind control.[40]. Donald Ewen Cameron was experimenting along similar lines in Canada, and it later emerged that his work was in part funded by the CIA.[41] Cameron often sought Sargant's advice and on one occasion Sargant sent Cameron a note saying: "Whatever you manage in this field, I thought of it first".[42] Books about Cameron's experiments have commented on links between the two psychiatrists.[43] Although Sargant acted as a consultant for MI5, no evidence has emerged that his work with deep sleep treatment at St Thomas' hospital had any links with intelligence services."





"We must always remember to thank the CIA and the Army for LSD. That's what people forget. Everything is the opposite of what it is, isn't it, Harry? So get out the bottle, boy -- and relax. They invented LSD to control people and what they did was give us freedom. Sometimes it works in mysterious ways its wonders to perform. If you look in the Government reports on acid, the ones who jumped out the window or killed themselves because of it, I think even with Art Linkletter's daughter, it happened to her years later. So, let's face it, she wasn't really on acid when she jumped out the window. And I've never met anybody who's had a flashback on acid. I've never had a flashback in my life and I took millions of trips in the Sixties."

~ John Lennon, 1980 Playboy interview

[jarvitronics]

Aug 19, 2010 9:50:15 GMT -5 P(D)enny La(i)ne said:

...Although Sargant acted as a consultant for MI5, no evidence has emerged that his work with deep sleep treatment at St Thomas' hospital had any links with intelligence services."

Thomas Sargent:



(aka Max Miller)

-j

[P(D)enny La(i)ne]

In 1948 he Sargant was appointed director of the department of psychological medicine at St Thomas' Hospital, London, and remained there until (and after) his retirement in 1972, also treating patients at other hospitals, building up a lucrative private practice in Harley Street, and working as a media psychiatrist.





Also, have a look at the Dentists and Doctors on Harley Street thread:

invanddis.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Clues&thread=5654&page=1

[P(D)enny La(i)ne]

"In recent years writer Gordon Thomas has suggested that Sargant's experiments with deep sleep treatment were part of British involvement with the CIA MKULTRA programme into mind control.[40]. Donald Ewen Cameron was experimenting along similar lines in Canada, and it later emerged that his work was in part funded by the CIA.[41] Cameron often sought Sargant's advice and on one occasion Sargant sent Cameron a note saying: "Whatever you manage in this field, I thought of it first".

Here's a CBC documentary about Cameron called The Sleep Room.

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6945115089996021736#docid=-7833202505176445519

[B]

My thinking was that if Paul was in a car accident, and went into a coma,
or
if Paul was in a car accident and suffered brain damage
or
if Paul was in a car accident, and died

and

if Faul received a brain implant intended to allow him to express the thoughts and wishes of Paul,
as may have been suggested in some of the Rotten Apple videos

("There's someone in my head, but it's not me")

or

if Faul received a brain implant to allow him to express the spirit of someone from antiquity
who had later incarnated as Paul McCartney

or

if Faul had had any kind of brain surgery related to his taking on the role of Paul McCartney

then

there is a distinct possibility that a consultant on the project may have been Dr. Sargant, whose
"expertise" might have been sought.

If Paul himself had brain surgery to recover from the effects of a car accident, and had not recovered
properly, or died, he might be like the person depicted on the Momentary Lapse of Reason album.

A soul with no place to go, or ability to express himself physically.
Someone 'left behind' in Sargant's mad experimentation.

If Paul had had brain surgery and died, then perhaps Faul was the second candidate chosen for
the implantation of a brain chip to allow a disembodied spirit to express itself through him.

All of this is speculation on my part, but I ask you: As you read through the following lyrics
from Bowie's "Is there life on Mars?", does this not sound like the experience of someone who could
have been one of Dr. Sargant's patients?

"Now she walks through her sunken dream
To the seat with the clearest view
And she's hooked to the silver screen
But the film is a saddening bore
'Cause she's lived it ten times or more
She could spit in the eyes of fools
As they ask her to focus on

Sailors fighting in the dance hall
Oh man! Look at those cavemen go..."

(The Beatles played in the CAVErn Club, a 'dance hall' of sorts.)

I wish I had more to go on here. I think Paul was supposed to have 'embodied' the spirit of
Osiris, but due to brain damage from a car accident, was not a fit vessel for the expression of that being.
I suspect Faul took on the role, with a possible assist of a brain implant, which was 'turned on'
in a ceremony shown in the "A Day in the Life" video you've all seen. His baptism with the
spirit of Paul/Osiris being when the final note of the song was struck, presumably.

The chorus: "I'd love to turn you on", being quite literal. John singing that he'd like to turn
everybody on the way Faul was "turned on" in that ceremony.
"Turn me on dead man" - a similar message. Paul/Osiris 'turned on' in the head of Faul with the flick
of a switch.

Again, this is just my speculation. I don't know any of this for a fact.

[drchimp]

Fascinating stuff, thank you.

[B]

You're welcome. (I think I speak for P(D)enny La(i)ne as well.) ;D



Of course, the cut-out character Sgt. Pepper could be a composite of sorts,
based on anyone. John Philip Sousa comes to mind.

hands across the water....

Sousa / Hands Across the Sea
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGm665UezTI


Venus and Mars are alright tonight

Sousa / Mars and Venus
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0N3vqK8OKI


iamwho?


EL CAPITAN SGT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNXPpXrWTTs



This one is for P(D)enny La(i)ne!

Colonel Bogey March
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAi7mERFWAc


And if the cloud bursts thunder in your ear

The Thunderer
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nJPUD57L7c


heads across the sky
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGbpRAaXJz8


you shout and no one seems to hear
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R780p_NSq8

[iameye]

I'll meet you on the dark side of the Moon

[B]

Back to Dr. Sargant....

from wikipedia:

"... He returned to England in August 1948 having been offered the position
of head of the department of psychological medicine at St Thomas’, a teaching hospital
in London.
At that time the new department consisted of a basement with no in-patient beds, and no requirement
on students to attend lectures on psychiatry. Sargant was to stay at St Thomas’s for the rest
of his career, and he built the department up into an 'active treatment, teaching and research
unit'. The basement was refurbished to use as an out-patient department (for electroconvulsive
therapy, modified insulin treatment, methedrine injections, etc.), while the amalgamation of St Thomas’
and nearby Royal Waterloo Hospital provided Sargant with a 22 bed ward for his in-patients
(this was to become his ward for continuous narcosis or deep sleep treatment)..."

(Sargant's experiments were done in the basement of what had been the Waterloo hospital.)

The Kinks - Waterloo Sunset
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3gX47rHGg


Dirty old river, must you keep rolling
Flowing into the night
People so busy, makes me feel dizzy
Taxi light shines so bright
But I dont need no friends
As long as I gaze on waterloo sunset
I am in paradise

Every day I look at the world from my window
But chilly, chilly is the evening time
Waterloo sunsets fine

Terry meets julie, waterloo station
Every friday night
But I am so lazy, dont want to wander
I stay at home at night
But I dont feel afraid
As long as I gaze on waterloo sunset
I am in paradise

Every day I look at the world from my window
But chilly, chilly is the evening time
Waterloo sunsets fine

Millions of people swarming like flies
round waterloo underground
But terry and julie cross over the river
Where they feel safe and sound
And the dont need no friends
As long as they gaze on waterloo sunset
They are in paradise

Waterloo sunset's fine
---------------

Ray Davies (From Uncut magazine January 2009):
"It came to me first as a statement about the death of Merseybeat.
But I realized that Waterloo was a very significant place in my life.
I was in St. Thomas' Hospital when I was really ill as a child, and I looked out on the river.
I went to Waterloo every day to go to college as well. The song was also about being taken
to the Festival of Britain with my mum and dad. I remember them taking me by the hand, looking at
the big Skylon tower, and saying it symbolized the future. That, and then walking by the Thames
with my first wife (Rasa, who left Ray, taking his two daughters, in 1973) and all the other dreams
that we had. Her in her brown suede coat that she wore, that was stolen.
And also about my sisters, and about the world I wanted them to have.
The two characters in the song, Terry and Julie, are to do with the aspirations of my sisters' generation,
who grew up during the Second world War and missed out on the '60s.
Sometimes when you're writing and you're really on good form, you get into the frame of mind
where you think, I can relate to any of these things. It's something I learned at art school -
let all the ideas flow out. But if you listen to the words without the music, it's a different thing entirely.
The lyrics could be better. But they dovetail with the music perfectly."

[B]

a slightly off-topic detour:

Nobles of the Mystic Shrine - Ramses peace monument (in Toronto)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O4VzX9_9Wk

"A peace memorial presented to the People of Canada in 1930 on behalf of the ancient Arabic order,
Nobles of the Mystic Shrine." (See the Wings?)

John Phillip Soussa - Nobles of the Mystic Shrine
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKWof_x_dBc


These guys drive "Paul's" 'car' ?!

[P(D)enny La(i)ne]

327 CIA mind-control victims win cash claims

HUNDREDS of mentally ill patients who were subjected to barbaric CIA-funded brainwashing experiments by a Scottish doctor could be entitled to compensation following a landmark court ruling.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article495413.ece

Doctor Ewan Cameron, who became one of the world’s leading psychiatrists, developed techniques used by Nazi scientists to wipe out the existing personalities of people in his care.

Cameron, who graduated from Glasgow University, was recruited by the CIA during the cold war while working at McGill University in Montreal, Canada.

He carried out mind-control experiments using drugs such as LSD on hundreds of patients, but only 77 of them were awarded compensation.

Now a landmark ruling by a Federal Court judge in Montreal will allow more than 250 former patients, whose claims were rejected, to seek compensation.

Gail Kastner, who underwent electroshock treatment at a Montreal psychiatric institute in 1953, and whose claim was rejected 10 years ago, successfully appealed the judgment.

Last week, Alan Stein, of Montreal law firm Stein and Stein, which represented Kastner, confirmed he was in the process of contacting former clients who could now renew their appeal.

“There are about 200 people still due compensation,” he said. “This judgment should send out strong signals to the Canadian government. Those who have previously missed out should have a strong case for appealing.”

Using techniques similar to those portrayed in the celebrated novel the Manchurian Candidate, it was believed that people could be brainwashed and reprogrammed to carry out specific acts.

Cameron developed a range of depatterning “treatments” while director of the Allan Memorial Institute at McGill University.

Patients were woken from drug-induced stupors two or three times a day for multiple electric shocks. In a specially designed “sleep room” made famous by Anne Collins’s book of the same name, Cameron placed a speaker under the patient’s pillow and relayed negative messages for 16 hours a day.

Kastner was a 19-year-old honours student suffering from mild depression when she first underwent “treatment” in 1953. On returning home she sucked her thumb, demanded to be fed from a bottle, talked in a baby voice and urinated on the floor.

She was ostracised by her affluent family, who were unable to cope with her changed state, and her marriage in 1955 quickly broke down due to her difficulties.

Cameron, who was born in Bridge of Allan in 1901, rose to become the first president of the World Psychiatric Association.

It took two decades and the persistence of Joseph Rauh, the distinguished American civil liberties lawyer, to uncover what happened and secure compensation for some of Cameron’s victims.

[B]

That's good news, but they'll never get back what they lost.

[P(D)enny La(i)ne]

Aug 19, 2010 11:45:44 GMT -5 P(D)enny La(i)ne said:

"In recent years writer Gordon Thomas has suggested that Sargant's experiments with deep sleep treatment were part of British involvement with the CIA MKULTRA programme into mind control.[40]. Donald Ewen Cameron was experimenting along similar lines in Canada, and it later emerged that his work was in part funded by the CIA.[41] Cameron often sought Sargant's advice and on one occasion Sargant sent Cameron a note saying: "Whatever you manage in this field, I thought of it first".

Here's a CBC documentary about Cameron called The Sleep Room.

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6945115089996021736#docid=-7833202505176445519

Here's a tremendous new documentary on the study and application of behaviorism in controlling populations.

I'm posting it here because our old friend Dr. Ewan Cameron is mentioned.

metanoia-films.org/hr_watchonline.php