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Post by Mellow Yellow on Jun 5, 2007 0:51:16 GMT -5
What do you guys think about Zionism? Not to be confused with the Zionist conspiracy theory, but the Jewish movement for their Israeli homeland. Do you support it? Do you think the US Government it too supportive of it? I'll give my two cents. After the Holocaust, the concept of the Jews having their homeland back seemed like a good idea. However, many ignore the consequences of the actions (i.e. 4.5 million Arab refugees). The fact that the British government and the UN supported the Zionist movement has led to alot of bad blood between the Muslims and the West. They see it like this: If we hadn't supplied weapons and given support to Israel, it would still be their land. So I can actually see both sides of the situation and how it directly links up with the fighting going on today. But then I see things like this: www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/860867.html
By Aluf Benn
Fully 71 percent of Israelis believe that the United States should launch a military attack on Iran if diplomatic efforts fail to halt Tehran's nuclear program, according to a new poll.
The survey, commissioned by Bar-Ilan University's BESA Center and the Anti-Defamation League, found that 59 percent of Israelis still believe the war in Iraq was justified, while 36 percent take the opposite view. Some 65 percent believe that the United States is a loyal ally of Israel, with only 11 percent saying the opposite. A slightly higher proportion, 73 percent, described President George W. Bush as friendly. Forty-eight percent attributed U.S. support for Israel to strategic considerations, while 30 percent credited American Jewry and 17 percent cited shared values and a shared democratic tradition.
Regarding America's importance to Israel, there was near consensus: 91 percent said that close relations with the U.S. are vital to Israel's security. Some 51 percent of respondents predicted that the U.S. will ultimately impose an agreement on Israel and the Palestinians, while 43 percent disagreed.
In addition, 52 percent of respondents described American Jewish support of Israel as "sufficient," while 33 percent did not. About half of all Israelis believe that American Jewry is in danger of disappearing due to assimilation, the poll found. And I can't help but ask myself "Ok, Israel wants us to attack Iran.... and Israel is going to do...?" and I can kind of see why many criticize the US government as quickly becoming Israels lapdog. In the end, I'm pro both sides, as I believe the Palestinians deserve their own land, but also believe Israel has every right to prosper and exist.
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Jun 7, 2007 19:49:24 GMT -5
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Post by Mellow Yellow on Jun 8, 2007 0:12:22 GMT -5
Israel is one of those subjects where if you're going to form an opinion and talk about it, you first need to know the history of the region. Here are a couple videos which a brief history lesson on Israel.
Most excellent assumptions my friend. However, I already knew all about the history of the area (Roman Occupation, Diaspora, British Mandate of Palestine, etc)... Not that it means anything, but this stuff was required knowledge for passing my Western Civilization course (which I made an A in).
Also, I want to show you some early photos of Isreal which clearly show it was very sparsely populated and culturally diverse. There really wasn't much there from in the 1800's to early 1900's.
Oh, so that makes it ok? The refugees would like a word with you.
Israel would be NOTHING without the US. Here are some facts for you:
Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.
One huge cost is not secret. It is the higher cost of oil and other economic damage to the US after Israel-Arab wars.
In 1973, for instance, Arab nations attacked Israel in an attempt to win back territories Israel had conquered in the 1967 war. President Nixon resupplied Israel with US arms, triggering the Arab oil embargo against the US.
That shortfall in oil deliveries kicked off a deep recession. The US lost $420 billion (in 2001 dollars) of output as a result, Stauffer calculates. And a boost in oil prices cost another $450 billion.
Afraid that Arab nations might use their oil clout again, the US set up a Strategic Petroleum Reserve. That has since cost, conservatively, $134 billion, Stauffer reckons.
So let's weigh the pros and cons. Pros argue that "With Israel, we have a democratic ally in an area in which we don't have many friends". That is TRUE. However, the only reason we have this "ally" is because we basically "carved" them out and constantly dump money in their pockets to keep their "friendship".
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Jun 8, 2007 11:40:21 GMT -5
Mellow Yellow, you might have received an "A" on your paper, but you still have a lot to learn... Look the best solution to this problem I've ever heard was the brainchild of Benny Elon, Israel's Minister of Tourism. Basically, Israel would have sovereignty over all 12,000 sq. miles of territory (including Judea (west bank), Samaria and Gaza). 80% of Jordan is Palestinian and the Heshemite Kingdom of Jordan was meant to be the Palestinian homeland and it would be recognized as such under the plan. So then the Arab population who have residence in Israel would have civil rights conferred by Israel, their citizenship would be Palestinian, and its political rights will be actualized in Amman. The terrorist infrastructure would be uprooted, dissolution of the Palestinian Authority, there would be a rehabilitation of refugees and completion of population exchange that began in 1948, and Israel and Jordan-Palestine would declare the conflict terminated and both sides would work to normalize relations. Benny Elon's PlanAnyway, America cannot afford not to support Israel. It's kind of difficult to explain--not only is Israel the only democratic ally the US has in the region, but there is a spiritual component at work too and anytime America has neglected to support Isreal, she has seen natural disasters, pestilence, and economic repercussion.
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Post by Mellow Yellow on Jun 8, 2007 16:18:32 GMT -5
but there is a spiritual component at work too and anytime America has neglected to support Isreal, she has seen natural disasters, pestilence, and economic repercussion.
Right.... I don't buy into that superstitious stuff.
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Jun 8, 2007 21:06:50 GMT -5
You know how in PID we can throw out clue after clue after clue and no matter what there are people who still think Paul is alive and kicking, and the same guy he's always been?
Well, it's sort of the same thing when it comes to US support for Israel. There is a continuous pattern which shows that every time the US neglects Israel, she pays the price for it.
Here are examples from the news of what I'm talking about...
October 30, 1991
As President George Bush, Sr. is opening the Madrid Conference to consider "Land for Peace" in Israel's Middle East role, the "Perfect Storm" develops in the North Atlantic, creating the largest waves ever recorded in that region. The storm travels 1,000 miles from East to West (instead of the normal West to East pattern) and crashes into the New England coast. Thirty five foot waves crash into the Kennebunkport home of President Bush.
August 23, 1992
When the Madrid Conference moves to Washington D.C. and the Peace Talks resume, Hurricane Andrew, the worst natural disaster ever to hit America , comes ashore producing an estimated $30 billion in damage and leaving 108,000 homeless in Florida .
January 16, 1994
President Bill Clinton meets with Syria 's President Hafez el-Assad in Geneva . They talk about a peace agreement with Israel that includes giving up the Golan Heights . Within 24 hours a powerful (6.9 on the Richter scale) earthquake rocks Southern California . The Northridge earthquake becomes the second most destructive natural disaster to hit the United States , behind Hurricane Andrew.
January 21, 1998
Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu meets with President Clinton at the White House and is coldly received. Clinton and Secretary of State Madeline Albright refuse to have lunch with him. Shortly afterwards on that day, the Monica Lewinski scandal breaks into the mass media and begins to occupy a major portion of Clinton 's time.
September 28, 1998
Secretary of State Albright works on the final details of an agreement in which Israel would give up 13% of Judea and Samaria . Hurricane George, with winds of 110mph gusting up to 175mph, slams into the United States Gulf Coast . Hurricane George stalls. Clinton meets with Arafat and Netanyahu at the White House to finalize this land deal. Later Arafat addresses the United Nations about declaring an independent Palestinian state by May 1999. Hurricane George pounds the Gulf Coast causing $1 billion in damage. At the exact time Arafat departs the country, the storm starts to dissipate.
October 15-22, 1998
Arafat and Natanyahu meet at the Wye River Plantation in Maryland . The talks are scheduled to last five days with a focus on Israel giving up 13% of Judea and Samaria . The talks are extended and conclude on October 23rd. On October 17th awesome rains and tornados hit Sothern Texas . The rain and flooding in Texas continue until October 22nd and then subside. The floods ravage 25% of Texas and leave over $1 billion in damage. On October 21, Clinton declares this section of Texas a major disaster area.
November 30, 1998
Arafat comes to Washington again to meet with President Clinton to raise money for a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as the capital. A total of 42 other nations were represented in Washington . All agreed to give Arafat $3 billion in aid. Clinton promised $400 million and the European nations $1.7 billion. On the same day, the Dow Jones average drops 216 points, and on December 1, the European Market had its worst day in history. Hundreds of billions of market capitalization were wiped out in U.S. and Europe .
December 12, 1998
Clinton lands in the Palestinian-controlled section of Israel to discuss the "land for peace" process. The House of Representatives votes four articles of impeachment against Clinton .
May 3, 1999
The day Yasser Arafat is scheduled to declare a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital the most powerful tornado storm system ever to hit the United States sweeps across Oklahoma and Kansas . Winds are clocked at 316mph, the fastest wind speed ever recorded. The declaration is postponed to December 1999 at the request of Clinton , whose letter to Arafat encourages him in his "aspirations for his own land." He also writes that the Palestinians have a right to "determine their own future on their own land" and that they deserve to "live free today, tomorrow and forever."
October 11, 1999
Jewish settlers in 15 " West Bank " ( Israel ) settlements are evicted from the covenant land in Israel . Dow Jones financial averages loses 5.7% in the worst week since October 1989. On October 15 the Dow lost 266 points. A hurricane slams into North Carolina . Next morning, October 16, a magnitude 7.1 earthquake rocks the Southwest in the fifth most powerful earthquake in the 20th century. The earthquake was centered in the California desert and did little damage but it was felt in three states.
August 2005
Jewish families were evicted from their homes in the Gaza communities as part of Ariel Sharon's "Disengagement" plan. This disengagement was a response to the American Foreign Policy pressure being exerted by Condoleeza Rice. As the world watched the Jews being removed from their homes, a weather system was forming in the Atlantic . This storm became Hurricane Katrina, which destroyed New Orleans , Louisiana (Miss Rice's home state) and an area the size of Britain , rendering thousands of Americans homeless and leaving thousands dead. Hurricane Katrina also spoiled the "Southern Decadence" weekend planned by the homosexual community for New Orleans and supported by the mayor of New Orleans . By September 7th, further parallels were becoming apparent. The Mayor of New Orleans, having been heavily criticized for ineffectiveness has ordered troops (local people) and police to evacuate all residents who refuse to leave. The police chief has expressed reservations about tackling defiant householders as it would be a "PR disaster."
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Post by JoJo on Jun 8, 2007 21:16:56 GMT -5
Are you serious?
The idea that we must support Israel because of a vengeful God is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I have heard to date on this board.
These are natural disasters, and cherry picking the ones that fall on the dates that surround important events (or semi-important ones in some cases) is not all that convincing, sorry.
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Jun 8, 2007 23:47:12 GMT -5
Well you know JoJo, if you want to go into that direction there is a promise in the Bible that those nations who stand with Israel will be blessed and those nations which come against Israel will be cursed. No one ever said you had to believe it, but the fact is natural disasters have coincided with U.S. diplomatic policy. I think whatever calamities befall the U.S, it is not punishment by a vengeful God, but merely the result of our own choices.
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Post by JoJo on Jun 9, 2007 10:32:33 GMT -5
I apologize for going on a rant, and I guess you're carrying a belief system such that there's no changing your mind. Do you not find it disturbing that certain fundamentalist groups support Israel at all costs, so that the expansion can be complete; thereby ushering in the end of the world. (Armageddon) Of course the Jews, along with anyone else who isn't "saved", will die horrible deaths. I found the site where you found the list of disasters: LINKThe main site: LINKMore things that we should all be afraid of then I can count. Fear sells, no? I'll pass, thanks. What was the U.S. being punished for when thousands died in Galveston TX in 1900? The San Francisco earthquake in 1906? Anything else that preceded the formation of the state of Israel?
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Jun 11, 2007 2:59:15 GMT -5
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by expansion... As far as the Bible is concerned, there are set boundries for the state of Israel, basically it's 12,000 square miles made up of Israel proper and includes Judea (West Bank), Gaza, and Samaria. That's really pretty much it, not really any more or any less.
As far as Armegeddon, it won't be the end of the world. The outcome will see a beginning of a new age where there is peace and the earth is restored in its beauty. I don't think anyone wants to see people die, instead I'd say it's more like looking at a disaster that's coming and knowing that people will perish if they don't do something for themselves. I do believe everyone will get a chance to decide on his or her own fate. Based on Revelation, there is thought that during Armegeddon that Jews will escape to Petra which is in Jordan.
I don't have an answer for you on whether or not those natural disaster in the early 1900's were connected to anything specific as far as America is concerned. Of course, Israel didn't become a nation again until 1948.
Anyway, you can look at this pattern of natural disasters with US policy on Israel as something to be scared of, or something to be vigilant of. Look things are starting to heat up again in Israel. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert will be coming to the White House on June 19th. It is reported that the Bush administration is pressuring Olmert's government to to agree to Palestinian Authority and Fatah chief Mahmoud Abbas's request for more arms, while placing restrictions of Israel's ability to arm itself. So it appears the US is forcing Israel to endanger itself in a couple ways. Currently the national several weather forecast is for thunderstorms across the country this week. But it ought to be interesting to see if anything more developes.
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Post by Mellow Yellow on Jun 11, 2007 14:08:29 GMT -5
Weather control is more believable than "Vengeful God". I don't have a religion (I agree with some of the philosophies of Therevada Buddhism, because they don't actually worship anything and see Buddha as a mortal teacher) but my brother is a uber-conservative Christian and some of the things he says just pisses me off.
One time "My Sweet Lord" came on the radio, and he asked what religion George was, I told him Hindu and he said "Haha, too bad he's in hell!". If I even talk about the flaws of Christian/Judaic doctrine he will tell me "You are going to hell and you don't even know..."
What's sad is how few Christians/Jews know the history of their religion. Judaism is basically a rehash of ancient Canaanite religions mixed with Zoroastrianism. Thing such as the flood, the ark and other things in the Torah were first written in The Epic of Gilgamesh, which is the oldest book known to man. I could never devote my life to a religion which is basically warmed-up leftovers of an even older myth. Christianity takes this mix and further mixes it with Paganism and you get what we have to day.... A big freakin mess.
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Jun 12, 2007 3:02:53 GMT -5
Let me clarify something, the key is dividing Isreal. Whenever the U.S. has pressured Israel into giving up land for peace it has turned out badly for Israel and the U.S. has been hit with natural disasters.
1. October 30, 1991 : The Madrid Conference opens with President Bush pushing Israel to consider a " land for peace" idea. Israel gives away its God-given Land to the Arabs for Peace. As this conference begins, the perfect storm develops in the North Atlantic. This storm travels from east to west, creating the largest waves ever recorded in that region and crashes into the New England coast, causing much destruction
2. August 23, 1992 : The Israeli-Arab peace talks move to Washington DC where Israel is again pressured to give up its Land to the Arabs. In Florida at the same time Hurricane Andrew forms-hits South Florida in what becomes the worst natural disaster to ever hit America. Causing $30 billion in damage and leaving 180,000 people homeless
3. January 16, 1994 : President Clinton meets with Syria's president Assad to discuss giving away the Israeli Golan Heights area to the Arabs, within 24 hours a powerful 6.9 earthquake hits Southern california. This quake becomes the 2nd most destructive disaster to hit America besides Hurricane Andrew
4. September 28, 1998 : America once again in meetings with Israel comes up with a plan for Israel to give up some of its West Bank Land( Judah and Samaria) to the Arabs. President Clinton meets with Yasser Arafat to complete this land deal and to discuss declaring a Palestinian State on Israeli land. At the same time, Hurricane George slams into the US Gulf Coast with 110 mile winds. Causing 1 billion dollars damage
5. October 15-22, 1998 : As the Israeli PM and Arafat are meeting at the Maryland Wye River Plantation to promote the same Land for Peace ideas, the State of Texas was hit with severe rain storms, flooding 25% of the State
6. May 3, 1999 : Yasser Arafat with President Clinton scheduled on this day in Washington DC to declare a Palestinian Muslim State on Israeli Land with Jerusalem as their Arab Capital. A Powerful Super Tornado system with winds at 316 mph sweeps across the American Mid-West hits hours before the Declaration was to be announced. This natural disaster postponed the announcement till later on in the year
7. October 11, 1999 : Jewish residents in 15 West Bank Israeli towns are evicted from their homes under an American/Israeli agreement. The next day a 7.1 earthquake hits the American Southwest in the fifth most powerful earthquake in the 20th Century
8. September 11, 2001 : at 11am that morning, the American UN Ambassador was to present a final proposed agreement to the United Nations assembly for the establishment of a Palestinian Arab State on Israeli Jewish Land. At 9 am on 9/11/01 terrorists attacked the Twin Towers in NYC, closing down the City and the UN. The proposed agreement was never voted on
9. August 2005 : An American/Israeli plan called Disengagement was put into effect - ripping 9,000 Israeli citizens away from their Jewish homes in the Gaza Strip. These Israelis were made both homeless and jobless because of this action. As these Israeli residents were being forced from their homes, Hurricane Katrina formed in the Atlantic ocean and hit the Gulf Coast- New Orleans. Killing 2,000 residents, and leaving many homeless and jobless.
Mellowyellow, as for what you claimed about the roots of Christianity and Judiasm, I disagree completely...
First of all, Christianity does not need any outside influence to derive any of its doctrines. All the doctrines of Christianity exists in the Old Testament where we can see the prophetic teachings of Jesus as the son of God (Zech. 12:10), born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14), was crucified (Psalm 22), the blood atonement (Lev. 17:11), rose from the dead (Psalm 16:10), and salvation by faith (Hab. 2:4). Also, the writers of the gospels were eyewitnesses (or directed by eyewitnesses as were Mark and Luke) who accurately represented the life of Christ. So, what they did was write what Jesus taught as well as record the events of His life, death, and resurrection. In other words, they recorded history, actual events and had no need of fabrication or borrowing.
There will undoubtedly be similarities in religious themes given the agrarian culture. Remember, an agriculturally based society, as was the people of the ancient Mediterranean area, will undoubtedly develop theological themes based upon observable events, i.e., the life, death, and seeming resurrection of life found in crops, in cattle, and in human life. It would only be natural for similar themes to unfold since they are observed in nature and since people created gods related to nature.
But, any reading of the Old Testament results in observing the intrusion of God into Jewish history as is recorded in miracles and prophetic utterances. Add to that the incredible archaeological evidence verifying Old Testament cities and events and you have a document based on historical fact instead of mythical fabrication. Furthermore, it is from these Old Testament writings that the New Testament themes were developed.
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Nov 26, 2007 22:38:50 GMT -5
Something could happen as a result of the Annapolis summit... Again, the key to all of this is the division of Isreal (& it's capital Jerusalem) in an exchange of land for peace.
It didn't seem like anything really happened when Bush and Olmert met on June 19th, but then that was more of a meeting where each side exchanged ideas. Bush didn't pressure Olmert into having Israel making concessions and sign an agreement like he seems to be indicating with the agenda for Annapolis summit.
Of course, as we head into December, you do expect to see major winter storms too. In fact, I just saw an article about storms building in intensity because of global warming. So if a big storm hit, you could chalk it up to that. But I think if after Annapolis--if something historically significant comes of it--then we read in the papers "the worst storm in years hitting the U.S", then given history there may be reason to think there's a connection with US policy in regard to the Israel/Palestinian issue.
So we shall see...
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Post by LOVELYRITA on Nov 27, 2007 15:36:16 GMT -5
Something we have learned recently in my little group, consisting of my sister, my friend and myself, we have found out that those who call themselves Jews and have any political influence in Israel are not truly the Israelites of the Scriptures.
Ashkenazi Jews are originally from the area in Eastern Europe. And these are the ones who were killed by the Nazis in the 1940's.
So those who call themselves Jews are not truly the "chosen people" of God. And supporting these imposters is just further insanity. Zionists are part of this group of imposters.
Judaism is a religion, not a race of people.
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Post by Jai Guru Deva on Nov 27, 2007 21:49:00 GMT -5
Judaism is a religion, not a race of people. Okay, as you say, there certainly there those in Israel with political influence that call themselves Jews in title only, but have no ancestral ties. In 1980 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Jews were a race at least for purposes for antidescrimination laws. Their reasoning: at the time these laws were passed, people routinely spoke of the "Jewish race", so that is what the legislators intended to protect. The problem with this sort of labeling is that it could eventually turn itself on its head and lead to stereotypes, misconceptions, and dangerous and tragic consequences. Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. In that context, Jews are clearly not a race. When thinking of Jewish culture, there is the food, the Yiddish language, some limited holiday observances, and cultural values. But Jewishness is more than a cultural or ethnic group. While cultural traits and behaviors are shared by many Jews, it's not shared by all Jews all over the world, and people who do not share that culture are no less Jews because of it. The Torah states that the Jews are a nation. In the ancient sense it meant a group of people with a common history, a common destiny, and a sense that we are all connected to each other. However, the modern sense of a nation means a territorial and political entity. So the term nation cannot really any longer be used to accurately describe the Jewish people. The Jewish people can be called a family. There's a certain amount of truth in the claims that it is a religion, a race, or an ethnic group, but none of these descriptions is entirely adequate to describe what connects Jews to other Jews. Almost all Jews feel a sense of connectedness to each other that many find hard to explain, define, or even understand. Traditionally, this interconnectedness was understood as "nationhood" or "peoplehood," but those terms have become so distorted over time that they are no longer accurate. But term "family" seems to fit because of physical or spiritual ancestral ties and emotional interconnectedness with others from around the world (a sense of feeling for what others are doing, going through, or have been through). ____________________________________________________ ANNAPOLIS: I wouldn't expect anything cataclysmic to happen at this time... As former Israeli foreign minister Shlomo Ben Ami (who's had vast experience in peace talks with Palestinians) put it, "So far they have only agreed that they need to agree. They haven't addressed any of the past issues." Annapolis, Maryland was just the beginning of a process in dealing with core issues.
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Post by LOVELYRITA on Dec 11, 2007 14:07:19 GMT -5
the Word JEW was not in the OLD Testament, Israel, as a people was, or Israelite.
In the NT Jews were mentioned as those who argued with Jesus in the synagogue. There is mention of Israelites and Jews in NT because the "Jews" referred to were of the San Hedrin, who were Cabbalist Jews and not the true Biblical Israel of the OT.
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Post by ramone on Dec 11, 2007 15:46:38 GMT -5
The word Jew could be found in the Hebrew scriptures. ex: Esther a few times And yes the sanhedrin were over the top, along with the pharisees with their man made requirements.
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Post by Doc on Dec 11, 2007 23:15:28 GMT -5
the Word JEW was not in the OLD Testament, Israel, as a people was, or Israelite. In the NT Jews were mentioned as those who argued with Jesus in the synagogue. There is mention of Israelites and Jews in NT because the "Jews" referred to were of the San Hedrin, who were Cabbalist Jews and not the true Biblical Israel of the OT. Actually, the tribe Judah is reffered to as such, as "Yehudah" thru-out the old testament scripture. Somewhere in either Kings 1 or Kings 2, we see this for the first time: "Yehudim", which is a plural and is equivalent in our thought and language as "the Jews." The verse where it appears goes on to say that "And at that time, the Yehudim were at war WITH Israel........." I will find that.
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Post by il ras on Dec 20, 2007 18:02:32 GMT -5
I'm completely ignorant about these things...
I thought that the Jews were the members of the Judah's (Jude's) tribe
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Post by jarvitronics on Dec 20, 2007 20:26:47 GMT -5
I thought that the Jews were the members of the Judah's (Jude's) tribe That is exactly right. There were 12 tribes in Israel, and Judah is only one of them. Abraham begat Isaac and Isaac begat Jacob. God changed Jacob's named to Israel. The 12 tribes are the families of Israel's 12 sons. Abraham had another son named Ishmael. His family became the Arab peoples. The children of Ishmael and the children of Isaac have been at each others' throats for thousands of years over who is the correct heir to the Abrahamic birthright...Isaac or Ishmael. That's a simplistic explanation, but it covers the big rocks. -j
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Post by evilsvesillives on Dec 21, 2007 13:17:24 GMT -5
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
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Post by iameye on Dec 22, 2007 11:37:58 GMT -5
I thought that the Jews were the members of the Judah's (Jude's) tribe That is exactly right. There were 12 tribes in Israel, and Judah is only one of them. Abraham begat Isaac and Isaac begat Jacob. God changed Jacob's named to Israel. The 12 tribes are the families of Israel's 12 sons. Abraham had another son named Ishmael. His family became the Arab peoples. The children of Ishmael and the children of Isaac have been at each others' throats for thousands of years over who is the correct heir to the Abrahamic birthright...Isaac or Ishmael. That's a simplistic explanation, but it covers the big rocks. -j look in the little rock too.........12 tribes, 12 cranial nerves.
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Post by evilsvesillives on Dec 22, 2007 14:07:57 GMT -5
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
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Post by LOVELYRITA on Dec 22, 2007 21:09:36 GMT -5
Israelites would be the proper name to cover all of the descendants of all the tribes of Jacob(Israel).
Hebrews would cover all descendants of Eber(Heber)
Jews are not the proper name of Hebrews or Israelites.
It's also not really true to say they are Semetic..because the claim is this group are descendants of Shem, but then they would be Shemites. There was no Sem.
So the words being used have been confusing for many for ages..
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Post by Doc on Dec 23, 2007 2:37:11 GMT -5
Israelites would be the proper name to cover all of the descendants of all the tribes of Jacob(Israel). Hebrews would cover all descendants of Eber(Heber) Jews are not the proper name of Hebrews or Israelites. It's also not really true to say they are Semetic..because the claim is this group are descendants of Shem, but then they would be Shemites. There was no Sem. So the words being used have been confusing for many for ages.. SH can equal S in Hebrew, as far as written spelling. Different tribes pronounced it differently. Do you know the whole story about "sibboleth" vs. "shibolleth?" So, really, shemite equals semite. I have seen in some Jewish writings the same name called Sem.
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