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Post by beatlies on Jan 18, 2006 23:55:11 GMT -5
Frank Zappa's observation is an interesting quote relevant to the topic of PWR, that's obvious enough, but Zappa's a bit of a riddle himself. He performs with John Lennon on "Live Jam," and one would suppose he knew about the Beatles and Faul, but he was not part of the anti-war movement the way Lennon or Phil Ochs were. His main political cause seems to have been the album content labeling battle against Tipper Gore.
He was also a close buddy of Vaclev Havel, the right wing, pro-Reagan/Bush CIA playwright who became president of the Czech Republic in 1989 (with "Shirley Temple Black" as US ambassador to Prague), as it broke from Slovakia/Czechoslovakia and dismantled socialism.
Zappa was probably speaking as a government insider when he made the statement above, maybe more conflicted than Faul, who also gives clues, but seems more happy in his fakery role for the state-run media "illusion."
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Post by beatlies on Jan 19, 2006 0:19:13 GMT -5
and .......
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Post by Miss Vaggie (Aka ET Girl) on Jan 19, 2006 0:20:04 GMT -5
This reads like Alice in Wonderland, Beatlies. Wasn't Frank Zappa supposed to be anti - establishement... how sad it is to hear somthing different. He wouldn't be an insider .. c'mon, really! Btw, what would you do if Macca posted on this forum? Would you say these things to his (Cyberly speaking) face? Wow! No offense but it seems like you hate Macca. What would you say.. seriously?! You sound like you almost hate him. He's not evil, y'know. I'll bet he would be civil and patient with you as much as possible.
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Post by Miss Vaggie (Aka ET Girl) on Jan 19, 2006 0:22:37 GMT -5
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Post by FP on Jan 19, 2006 0:26:35 GMT -5
You love this stuff, don't ya? ;D Oh yah. And Happy Birthday!
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Post by beatlies on Jan 19, 2006 0:36:22 GMT -5
Well here's a present for you, one you probably already have, but you have the book, do you have the website? [ftp]http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/advertising_and_society_review/v001/1.1haberstroh.html[/ftp]
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Post by Miss Vaggie (Aka ET Girl) on Jan 19, 2006 0:50:37 GMT -5
Is this some kind of psycho - sexist joke? Whatever. There are all kinds of cryptic and weird stuff on the net. Paranoia will destroy ya' ....
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Post by beatlies on Jan 19, 2006 0:56:50 GMT -5
Another classic: with this website: [ftp]http://www.javasbachelorpad.com/mediasex.html[/ftp]
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Post by Miss Vaggie (Aka ET Girl) on Jan 19, 2006 1:05:16 GMT -5
So ritz crackers are suggestive? I had no idea .. Sorry, maybe I'm brainwashed. But I don't get it. What about all the positive things out there ... anything you can think of?
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Post by Doc on Jan 19, 2006 2:26:03 GMT -5
This reads like Alice in Wonderland, Beatlies. Wasn't Frank Zappa supposed to be anti - establishement... how sad it is to hear somthing different. He wouldn't be an insider .. c'mon, really! Btw, what would you do if Macca posted on this forum? Would you say these things to his (Cyberly speaking) face? Wow! No offense but it seems like you hate Macca. What would you say.. seriously?! You sound like you almost hate him. He's not evil y'know. I'll bet he would be civil and patient with you as much as possible. I hope I am not misapplying these lyrics, but they are good ones that could speak to a lot of different kinds of situations, but some of these lines appear to "fit the shoe." RIDING TO VANITY FAIR I bit my tongue I never talked too much I tried to be so strong I did my best I used the gentle touch I've done it for so long You put me down But I can laugh it off And act like nothing's wrong But why pretend I think I've heard enough Of your familiar song I tell you what I'm going to do I'll try to take my mind off you And now that you don't need my help I'll use the time to think about myself You're not aware Of what you put me through But now the feeling's gone But I don't mind Do what you have to do You don't fool anyone I'll tell you what I'm going to do I'll take a different point of view And now that you don't need my help I'll use the time to think about myself The definition of friendship Apparently ought to be Showing support for the one that you love And I was open to friendship But you didn't seem to have any to spare While you were riding to Vanity Fair There was a time When every day was young The sun would always shine We sang along When all the songs were sung Believing every line That's the trouble with friendship For someone to feel it It has to be real or it wouldn't be right And I keep hoping for friendship But I wouldn't dare to presume it was there While you were riding to Vanity Fair Some of these do seem beyond the scope of chatter on the internet forums. Some seem to cling like a well broken-in sneaker.
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Post by Miss Vaggie (Aka ET Girl) on Jan 19, 2006 10:52:51 GMT -5
Very appropriate, Doc'. Whatever people believe about McCartney, wheather they think he's alive, dead or just hanging out in some secluded cave north of L.A., he's still a human being. Even if somebody feels Faul is real - a replacement for Paul, it doesn't mean he's a terrible person. It would only mean they stepped into a role. That's not evil if it's something they were asked to do on the spot. Besides, whatever you think of him - he's a great songwriter. And he's able to express what he thinks of those who don't like him or want to criticise him. I also don't think he tells the "Faulluminati" to break out the weather - changing machine; when it starts to rain at his concerts. That's tinfoil beanie - cap thinking ...
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Post by JoJo on Jan 19, 2006 17:56:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the birthday greetings Beatlies and wow, FP as well! Well, it's obvious that I'm Wilson Bryan Key fan, I have a quote of his in my sig.. I've read most of his books, and I don't think a quick summary like the above site can possibly do his writings justice. The site tends to hype the most shocking ideas, and without reading his well thought analysis, you might tend to walk away thinking this is nuts. One of the main ideas I took away from his books (and I don't agree with everything he says btw) is that without a working understanding of the symbols and archetypes with which our subconscious works, we have no way of consciously understanding the meaning. (of the embeds) If indeed we are influenced unknowingly, it wouldn't work one little bit if we learned to speak this language, you see? There's no need to feel powerless, another lesson he tries to impart. Interesting results when he tested people's ability to see embeds, those with an artistic background saw them far more quickly than people with a highly technical background. He concentrates on advertising in most of his books, but he also does a book on works of art. It made me think that then, as now, artists may have something they wish to say, but fear they can't say openly for whatever reason, resorting to tricks to conceal the message; itself more of a work of art than the openly displayed part! It's a lot to understand/take in, but you don't have to let it draw you down either.. It's cliche perhaps, but knowledge is power.
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Post by Doc on Jan 19, 2006 18:40:33 GMT -5
Another classic: with this website: [ftp]http://www.javasbachelorpad.com/mediasex.html[/ftp] But then, there always the possibility that artistically sensitive minds will subconsiously register shadow and overlap "embeds" in texturally complex images, including viewing real life itself. In other words, Nature herself, or the mere accident of the viewer's perspective, may yield hidden and disturbing (or neutral) sub-images to the vulnerable. In which case, true safety should be to live with blinders on! I don't believe you "recieve" or are affected by every subtle image that you pick-up in your daily life. If one is already thinkng about S_E_X, then they, IMO, may respond incrementally to numerous spottings of such pictures. If a person is well self-directed in their consciousness and activities as a life habit, I think the filters in the mind will, fortunately, judge all that as "visual noise"and discard it; throw it out as non-significant to one's mission, or lifestyle, or whatever. In otherwords, diciplined people who "keep charge over their mind", IMO have a security system like a web-server with the SPAM filters set on MAXIMUM HIGH. The junk images are junk mail, and don't make it on to the inbox. People say, Garbage In, Garbage Out. Agreed. For some people, and some people's mind, it's a worry because it ALL gets in because they are already thinking on levels corresponding to the embeds. In which case, there is no filter, no Spaminator. It's all a case of how deep you drive ideas and habits into your nervous system. Which is a function of daily participation. I play the piano, I guess I've mentioned it. When I first learn a piece, I am sight reading it, and my mind, which is programmed by practice to recognise the little dots and signs that music notation consists of, well my mind registers strongly what the little symbol, and groups of symbols are instructing my hands to do, and to some degree, HOW to do it. To a stranger to music notation, it looks like gobbledygook! They just register it all as a textural web of incohesive lines, dots, letter, and weird symbols. Sometimes when I see sheet music, I can hear it. Always to some degree, ad usually with the side of some voluntary mental effort. Unless its down and simple kindergarten level, then, yea, no effort. Anyway, then I attempt to learn this piece. Over time, it gets better and easier to read it. Soon I can look away during certain parts because the memory of how it sounds and the muscle memory work together to "cue" what to play next. And soon, I can play stretches by memory, maybe imperfectly. And, eventually, I can play it all with few slips. But for a while, I play by consciously hearing and relating to it as I go. No music. But by intense concentration, it comes back. It is stored well enough in my head, cues, memory aids, the sound of it, the feel of it, etc. Now, after a number of successful performances, something else takes over completely. The day comes, when ALL I have to do is start the piece, and the entire thing comes tumbling out of my fingers, unaided by mental strain, or insecurity of maybe forgetting, or whatever. It's like, the little memory miracle that actors, singers, musicians, etc get when its not only commited, but the musical piece is down in your body, embedded in your nervous system, a part of you. You almost never forget then. You can leave that piece for maybe a year, maybe two---and yet--its still there when you go to play it again! Maybe some slips, but its amazing how accessible it remanins ONCE IT HAS BEEN SUCK INTO YOUR MIND TO THAT DEEP A LEVEL. All by conscious effort--not subliminal, not mind control, not embeds, clues, not audio tapes with the ocean. So my point to all of this is, a mind well spent in accruing useful, positive, self-control filled activities and pursuits will be a mind better suited to withstand and resist advertising embeds and what not. Of course, I am far from the most disciplined guy on the planet. Wow, suddenly, I just suddenly feel like I wanna go to the Pizza Hut for some slices, wings, and a Michelob. I will as soon as I finish my Doritos, Dr. Pepper, and Skittles. And put on my Nike's.
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Post by Miss Vaggie (Aka ET Girl) on Jan 19, 2006 21:47:25 GMT -5
But then, there always the possibility that artistically sensitive minds will subconsiously register shadow and overlap "embeds" in texturally complex images, including viewing real life itself. In other words, Nature herself, or the mere accident of the viewer's perspective, may yield hidden and disturbing (or neutral) sub-images to the vulnerable. In which case, true safety should be to live with blinders on! I don't believe you "recieve" or are affected by every subtle image that you pick-up in your daily life. If one is already thinkng about S_E_X, then they, IMO, may respond incrementally to numerous spottings of such pictures. If a person is well self-directed in their consciousness and activities as a life habit, I think the filters in the mind will, fortunately, judge all that as "visual noise"and discard it; throw it out as non-significant to one's mission, or lifestyle, or whatever. In otherwords, diciplined people who "keep charge over their mind", IMO have a security system like a web-server with the SPAM filters set on MAXIMUM HIGH. The junk images are junk mail, and don't make it on to the inbox. People say, Garbage In, Garbage Out. Agreed. For some people, and some people's mind, it's a worry because it ALL gets in because they are already thinking on levels corresponding to the embeds. In which case, there is no filter, no Spaminator. It's all a case of how deep you drive ideas and habits into your nervous system. Which is a function of daily participation. I play the piano, I guess I've mentioned it. When I first learn a piece, I am sight reading it, and my mind, which is programmed by practice to recognise the little dots and signs that music notation consists of, well my mind registers strongly what the little symbol, and groups of symbols are instructing my hands to do, and to some degree, HOW to do it. To a stranger to music notation, it looks like gobbledygook! They just register it all as a textural web of incohesive lines, dots, letter, and weird symbols. Sometimes when I see sheet music, I can hear it. Always to some degree, ad usually with the side of some voluntary mental effort. Unless its down and simple kindergarten level, then, yea, no effort. Anyway, then I attempt to learn this piece. Over time, it gets better and easier to read it. Soon I can look away during certain parts because the memory of how it sounds and the muscle memory work together to "cue" what to play next. And soon, I can play stretches by memory, maybe imperfectly. And, eventually, I can play it all with few slips. But for a while, I play by consciously hearing and relating to it as I go. No music. But by intense concentration, it comes back. It is stored well enough in my head, cues, memory aids, the sound of it, the feel of it, etc. Now, after a number of successful performances, something else takes over completely. The day comes, when ALL I have to do is start the piece, and the entire thing comes tumbling out of my fingers, unaided by mental strain, or insecurity of maybe forgetting, or whatever. It's like, the little memory miracle that actors, singers, musicians, etc get when its not only commited, but the musical piece is down in your body, embedded in your nervous system, a part of you. You almost never forget then. You can leave that piece for maybe a year, maybe two---and yet--its still there when you go to play it again! Maybe some slips, but its amazing how accessible it remanins ONCE IT HAS BEEN SUCK INTO YOUR MIND TO THAT DEEP A LEVEL. All by conscious effort--not subliminal, not mind control, not embeds, clues, not audio tapes with the ocean. So my point to all of this is, a mind well spent in accruing useful, positive, self-control filled activities and pursuits will be a mind better suited to withstand and resist advertising embeds and what not. Of course, I am far from the most disciplined guy on the planet. Wow, suddenly, I just suddenly feel like I wanna go to the Pizza Hut for some slices, wings, and a Michelob. I will as soon as I finish my Doritos, Dr. Pepper, and Skittles. And put on my Nike's. Fascinating, doc'. That's very encouraging to me as I'm reading it. I'm thinking about writing songs as I get better on the guitar. It's good to know how memory can aid in learning through practice. Thanks for sharing it.
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Post by Doc on Jan 20, 2006 2:16:18 GMT -5
Thanks, MV! Oh, and I meant "gets SUNK into your mind, not "suck". Although I guess thoughts can get sucked into one's head, this is not where I was going with my diatribe, capisce? Or, I could have said "driven down into the mind", but the idea is that deliberate self-effort should be foremost in shaping one's mind; let's not eclipse that with fear of embeds.
"Oh my God there's a picture of a old woman's elbow in this ad, it's right here in this Buick window! It's there to make everyone......wait, oh, right, there IS an old woman behind the steering wheel, driving this car. Oh, Right, it's a Buick."
Find the embeds. Circle them. Laugh at them, and tauntingly declare---"You can't make me run out and buy Jim Beam tonight!" "So, this funny little squirrely picture all fuzzy in the corner of this wine glass is supposed to make me go out and get wild tonight? Well....no!"
If this ad scheming is true, they no doubt bombard us every day, and to some extent, our minds must adjust the signal-to-noise ratio between what is consciously more important--and what is not a desirable condition to get into. Unless you have nothing that is important...in which case it maybe a real good idea in THIS society to pick something, pick it fast, and one should try to select something evenb somewhat uplifting and beneficial to yourself and others............anything honest, acceptable, legal.
There may be a law or two in our fine country that bears review and possible excision; this is two wide in scope to discuss here.
But, personally, I plan to spend the rest of the month sloppy drunk on the street corner just for laughs. And, as laughter is the best medicine, everyone who sees me in this conditon will profit from this. Third and Main Street. Tonight. Be there. *hic*
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Post by Miss Vaggie (Aka ET Girl) on Jan 20, 2006 18:28:39 GMT -5
Thanks, MV! Oh, and I meant "gets SUNK into your mind, not "suck". Although I guess thoughts can get sucked into one's head, this is not where I was going with my diatribe, capisce? Or, I could have said "driven down into the mind", but the idea is that deliberate self-effort should be foremost in shaping one's mind; let's not eclipse that with fear of embeds. "Oh my God there's a picture of a old woman's elbow in this ad, it's right here in this Buick window! It's there to make everyone......wait, oh, right, there IS an old woman behind the steering wheel, driving this car. Oh, Right, it's a Buick." Find the embeds. Circle them. Laugh at them, and tauntingly declare---"You can't make me run out and buy Jim Beam tonight!" "So, this funny little squirrely picture all fuzzy in the corner of this wine glass is supposed to make me go out and get wild tonight? Well....no!" If this ad scheming is true, they no doubt bombard us every day, and to some extent, our minds must adjust the signal-to-noise ratio between what is consciously more important--and what is not a desirable condition to get into. Unless you have nothing that is important...in which case it maybe a real good idea in THIS society to pick something, pick it fast, and one should try to select something evenb somewhat uplifting and beneficial to yourself and others............anything honest, acceptable, legal. There may be a law or two in our fine country that bears review and possible excision; this is two wide in scope to discuss here. But, personally, I plan to spend the rest of the month sloppy drunk on the street corner just for laughs. And, as laughter is the best medicine, everyone who sees me in this conditon will profit from this. Third and Main Street. Tonight. Be there. *hic* Wow! A side - splitting bondoogle of a post by our good friend, Doc'! ;D It's: A FANTASTICAL FUN - FILLED SMORGASBORG OF HILARITY!! FUN! WOW! Watch and read along as Doc' weaves and bobs among the tapestry of threads and posts! See him come up with intricately inspired poetry, and spill his guts. Don't forget to bring your trusty dictionary. This Doc' dude's one smart cat! Hoooo boy! Well, now what's Doc' up to now?! I... I think he's lining up a joke. Doc' steps into the batters (Posting) box. And here's the pitch... it's HIGH! Doc' must've taken quite a long gulp of Jim Beam; just before he lobbed that baby, clear far and away from the batters box. And then swug wildly at the ball and missed. Doc' pitches and hit's, don'tcha know?! He's really gotta run fast from the pitcher's mound to the plate to catch up with his own sliders, curves and 100 MPH fastballs! I don't think it was anywhere near the plate (Nor was Doc'), that time.. But wait! Doc' winds up the shtick! Here's the pitch.... Doc' runs to the plate! WHAMMO! It's a line drive! The NIR posters run back, BACK, BACK, WAY BAAAAAACK! AND THERE IT GOES! A home run for Doc'! The mods are in tears, laughing themselves silly.. All the members collapse in utter hysterics! Another thought - provoking and humorous side of lyrical prose offered up by Doc'. And it's a doosey! ;D Doc', you've done it again! Another smash hit off the posters box. A line drive, home run into the right field bleachers. The NIR crowd goes wild! Everybody heads home happy. It's yet another victory for Doc'. and ultimately, the whole forum. Anyways, I meant to post in response to this thread poll.. ummmm.... What was my point?
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Post by FP on Jan 27, 2006 20:24:08 GMT -5
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Post by beatlies on Jan 28, 2006 0:03:05 GMT -5
So FP, you pretend to believe that JPM and Faul are the same person?
Why do you type "you PIDers" when you know the research here is into whether PWR (Paul was replaced)?
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Post by FP on Jan 28, 2006 1:44:40 GMT -5
Why do you type "you PIDers" when you know the research here is into whether PWR (Paul was replaced)? I honestly don't see that big of a difference between "PWR" and "PID", since both of them involve Paul being replaced. My question was based on that. The comparison of what you guys believe to be two different men's hands now contradicts the old one. So whether you guys are PIDers or PWRers, it doesn't change the question, or what the answer(s) may be.
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Post by beatlies on Jan 28, 2006 2:13:40 GMT -5
Why do you type "you PIDers" when you know the research here is into whether PWR (Paul was replaced)? I honestly don't see that big of a difference between "PWR" and "PID", since both of them involve Paul being replaced. My question was based on that. The comparison of what you guys believe to be two different men's hands now contradicts the old one. So whether you guys are PIDers or PWRers, it doesn't change the question, or what the answer(s) may be. As you know, FP, a key word in your quote above is "honestly," which should be removed or replaced for the sake of honesty. Inaccurately saying "you PIDers," with your Paul-Is-Dead-Hippie-Hoax association, carries much more of a sneering, snotty connotation than saying "you PWRers." It's a matter of your tone and disrespect, as you know.
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Post by FP on Jan 28, 2006 2:46:44 GMT -5
I honestly don't see that big of a difference between "PWR" and "PID", since both of them involve Paul being replaced. My question was based on that. The comparison of what you guys believe to be two different men's hands now contradicts the old one. So whether you guys are PIDers or PWRers, it doesn't change the question, or what the answer(s) may be. As you know, FP, a key word in your quote above is "honestly," which should be removed or replaced for the sake of honesty. Inaccurately saying "you PIDers," with your Paul-Is-Dead-Hippie-Hoax association, carries much more of a sneering, snotty connotation than saying "you PWRers." It's a matter of your tone and disrespect, as you know. The deeper we go in this conversation, the farther we're getting from my original question. This isn't really going anywhere, so believe whatever you want about me.
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Post by eyesbleed on Jan 28, 2006 7:51:51 GMT -5
So where is this finger thing anyway? I took a sec & skimmmed over a few posts & came to the conclusion that a).I'm hopelessly lost or b). I need another cup of coffee this morning.
Awww who cares.... I didn't get that involved in the fingers comparisons in the first place. I leave all this fine detail stuff to the other folks. I don't need to look at his hands to know there are at least 2 "Pauls"
And to repeat the above post... there's not that many PIDers here..... only a few of us are still convinced in PID66 (me included), but the fact that Paul was replaced in late 66 is obvious.
Too bad we don't have an easy disdainful term to use when referring to people who have studied as many "Paul" pics as we have & still insist there has only been one Paul over the years. Hey.... I know....... BLIND ;D
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Post by revolver on Jan 28, 2006 16:28:37 GMT -5
Too bad we don't have an easy disdainful term to use when referring to people who have studied as many "Paul" pics as we have & still insist there has only been one Paul over the years. Hey.... I know....... BLIND ;D Delusional is another possibility!
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Post by FP on Jan 28, 2006 18:06:39 GMT -5
The funny thing is, if I said similar things about you guys here, I'd get banned.
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Post by JoJo on Jan 28, 2006 18:43:55 GMT -5
I've been called a "dickwad" in 10 point type over there..(not you, I remember that much) It's OK, I actually got a good laugh over it!
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