Barking up the wrong tree - Rita, John Coleman, Adorno etc

[ticket2ride]

While I enjoy looking at other websites such as Paul is Dead Miss Him, I think the fundamentalist religious beliefs put too many posters there on the wrong track. Not to mention the blog post where 'William Billy Shears' or whatever he/she calls him or herself gives an account of what supposedly 'really' happened to Paul Mac.

I think we need to be very cautious about stories that rehash the old Rita myth - lovely Rita of Sergeant Pepper fame supposedly was the woman who recognised Paul and made him crash his car. That is the bull spun on the supposed last testament of 'George Harrison' and it has been asserted on the PID Miss Him website. The use of Rita is a red flag that there is deception - deliberate or otherwise.

Lovely Rita is not telling any real story and the groans at the end are orgasmic, not ones of somebody dying in a car crash. Commonsense needs to prevail over theories that refuse to look at more reasonable explanations. Rita is also a cheery ditty, not a sombre reflection on loss such as A Day In The Life. If people want to believe the Beatles would deal with Paul's death by a song like Lovely Rita they can, but it doesn't make their assertions reasonable.

The whole John Coleman says this etc and 'Theo Adorno wrote the Beatles song and they were manufactured by Tavistock theory' does have elements of truth. Those of us who were into the Beatles years ago and then reassessed what we were hearing and reading came to understand how manufactured the Beatlemania was at first - simply a media ploy, good propaganda. Why?

The answer seems to be yes the Beatles were indeed chosen to be an experiment of sorts although their genuine talents and individuality certainly put them above most other groups of their kind. Their musicianship was honed through the hard days and nights of rough Hamburg. But all the Theo Adorno theories can be called speculation at the most. We have to look closer to home - to EMI, to Brian Epstein, to David Jacobs who were Jewish men from well heeled backgrounds, homosexuals and who both committed suicide - allegedly. To George Martin who took the rough drafts of the Beatles' music and polished it, adding the creativity and diversity.

Why was it so important for the Beatles to have all this help before and after being signed to EMI? I think it is fair to say that this seems to be about EMI and Tavistock links - and if anybody can fill in the gaps with genuine information that would be incredibly helpful. Even if Brian was simply used by other people to bring the Beatles and he simply was attracted to their attitudes and John Lennon in the beginning, what about David Jacobs? Who was he connected to? Why was George Martin's re-creation of the Beatles music into classics obscured by the so called musical genius of Lennon and McCartney?

Both developed musically of course but without George Martin there would have been no Revolver, Rubber Soul, Sergeant Pepper. The albums would likely have remained where they were - poppy songs with twangy guitars and great harmonies. EMI and Tavistock - what is the real deal?

[linus]

Excellent points.

I was reading a few weeks ago about how EMI was experimenting with audio and it's effect on the human mind, etc. before the '60s. I will try to track them down again.

Interesting that Crowley said:
"Let him practice speaking Backwards. . .
Instead of saying “I am he” let him say “eh ma I”

I am he, backwards sounds a lot like EMI



Adorno, was not only too old to be writing hip rock music, but was German and if he knew English, would he have known all that hip slang? Plus, he detested pop music. Read his books on music, it'll change the way you think about pop music.

Although it is interesting that he was obsessed with Beethoven. Beethoven's 9th Symphony "Ode to Joy" was used to mind-control Alex in A Clockwork Orange, and it was also the song used to calm the tiger in Help!
Speaking of "Ode to Joy", have another listen to songs like Nowhere Man, If I Needed Someone, Tell Me What You See, P.S. I Love You, And Your Bird Can Sing, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, Her Majesty and the Rolling Stones' Paint It Black.

If Adorno was involved in the writing of their music, it was most likely only as a consultant regarding the musicality of the arrangements. I would lean more towards folks like Donovan, Burt Bacharach, John Cage, Peter Asher, Moody Blues/Denny Lane, Karlheinz Stockhausen (on Pepper cover), Lou Reed, Harry Nilsson, Henry Mancini. Throwing ideas out there. (and yes, I mean even before 1967).
Also beat poets William S. Burroughs and Allen Ginsburg are easy candidates for lyricists. Burroughs is on the Pepper cover, too. And allegedly it was him who interested the Beatles in backmasking.
Not to mention Liverpool beat poet Royston Ellis who hung with the Beatles in their early days. He was often called England's Jack Kerouac.

Also interesting that the semi-autobiographical character in Burrough's books Junky and Naked Lunch is named Bill Lee, who has a friend named McCarthy.
He originally published Junky in 1953 under the pen-name William Lee.

(fwiw, I'm not sure what to think about Coleman, or even John Todd for that matter, and their validity; but one has to wonder how much they could be correct).


And here's something from almost exactly a year ago:

Oct 8, 2012 17:05:31 GMT -5 linus said:

Slightly off-topic, but in response to B’s post about Jack Jones’
“A Day In the Life of a Fool”

Jan 25, 2012 11:02:13 GMT -5 B said:

obligatory mention

Jack Jones - A day in the life of a fool
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvLIlqKJ0eI

Not a song about PID, but a possible inspiration for the title of the song on the Sgt Pepper album.

I thought I recognized that melody. This is the American version of the Bossa Nova song “Manha de Carnaval” from the 1959 film Black Orpheus.
"A Day In the Life of a Fool", lyrics by Carl Sigman.
Carl Sigman also wrote the lyrics to “Answer Me, My Love” which shares similarities to the Beatles’ "Yesterday" both musically and thematically. The music to "Answer Me, My Love" is from the German song "Mutterlein".

Sigman also wrote the song “Just Yesterday” in 1965, which contains the line, “…only yesterday, now it all seems so far away”. Jack Jones’ recording of “Just Yesterday” reached #4 in the US charts that year.

Answer Me, My Love


Mutterlein


Just Yesterday


Also, give this song a listen:
Melody by Edvard Grieg, 1883

I would also add to your comment:
"Rita is also a cheery ditty, not a sombre reflection on loss such as A Day In The Life."
that John does say, "Although the news was rather sad, I just had to laugh. I saw the photograph."

[ticket2ride]

Thanks very much for that reply - very interesting.

I note that over at the Paul is Dead Miss Him blog, when somebody also ran with the focus  on George Martin as the pre-eminent influence and creator of significant parts of the songs that have been attributed to Lennon and McCartney then 'Billy Shears' made sure they got in again with the whole Theo Adorno theory which is simply that.

The problem with conspiracy theories is not that they are all wrong because sometimes they are not - the problem is that some people fall into the trap of thinking the most complex explanations are the only true ones and do not stop to consider how often the simpler explanations have more truth in them. The Beatles didn't need Theo Adorno - EMI made sure George Martin was their musical handler. Sure he developed the talents they had but he was the key to their success in the studio. I agree with you Linus that a number of ghostwriters are possible, such as Burt Bacharach etc.

'Billy Shears' also asserts that Theo Adorno owned the Beatles' publishing because he wrote their songs. I'll believe it if somebody can come up with some facts as opposed to continually rehashed assertions. I am open to it if there is something to back it up. However, as Cheryl noted in another thread, Dick James owned the publishing through Northern Songs.

PID theories are not helped by assertions with absolutely nothing to back them up. Any open minded person will accept that the Tavistock Institute had something to do with the Beatles but they were an actual group who honed their talents during long nights and mornings in Hamburg. They were not manufactured. They were, however, a convenient means to put into action some ideologies and theories of Tavistock. The more we know about EMI and its connections with non musical interests, the better we will understand.

But let's have some evidence re Adorno, not simply more assertions backed up by zero especially about the publishing. It reminds me of the person with the handle Sun King who claims the real Paul McCartney died of irritable bowel syndrome but offers absolutely nothing in the way of proof such as references by family and friends, other accounts. Sorry people, it's not good enough to keep saying but have nothing to show for what you say.

No doubt this will feed the paranoia of some of the people connected with PID Miss Him. It's a good blog in some ways but undermines itself at times.

[linus]

I would also like to see proof that Adorno owned the Lennon/McCartney catalog.

The thing is, the same people that say he did are the same people that say, "you can tell Adorno wrote the Beatles music because it is in the 12-tone atonal system." Which it is not. Not even the quartet at the end of Glass Onion is.




Here's is Billy Shears' Facebook page.
www.facebook.com/pages/The-Beatles-Billy-Shears/150322551819607

After seeing his videos and Fb page, it seems to me he is another person not so much interested in finding the truth, but more in getting pageviews and developing a following.

Here he says he is doing it for fun.


Here he gets many facts wrong and makes many unsubstantiated claims.

Anton LaVey did not star in the film, but he was an advisor for the ceremony scenes. Nor is there any evidence that he was a Tavistock agent, that I know of.
Polanksi was not one of the murder victims. He was out of state that night. He is still alive to this day.
"1234567 all good children go to Heaven" was not written on the walls of Polanski's home. "Healter Skelter" and "Pigs" was.
As far as I know, Polanski did not have Manson staying at his house. Nor is there any evidence they were acquaintances.
If Billy Shears has confirmed sources on any of these, he should be including them in his posts.


This guy seems like another sensationalist, bent on illustrating his theories and not interested in the big picture. A poor-man's IAAP.
On his Fb page, he also mines other people's works and posts them without including the source, or explaining the context.

There's also this.




As a personal rule, I stay away from places like the Miss Him forum, and it's spin-offs. The myoPIA and group-think in places like that is off the charts. I was a member of the old Miss Him forum and I still have ptsd from the culit-like religiosity of many of the folks there.

In the 2.5 years I've been studying this seriously, I have gleaned little to no useful information from folks pursuing the standard PID paradigm. In fact, I often come away from their presentations feeling like I've lost brain cells.
Yes, I know there are people that would say the same thing about me.

[cherilyn7]

Oct 20, 2013 6:04:30 GMT -5 ticket2ride said:

Thanks very much for that reply - very interesting.

I note that over at the Paul is Dead Miss Him blog, when somebody also ran with the focus  on George Martin as the pre-eminent influence and creator of significant parts of the songs that have been attributed to Lennon and McCartney then 'Billy Shears' made sure they got in again with the whole Theo Adorno theory which is simply that.

The problem with conspiracy theories is not that they are all wrong because sometimes they are not - the problem is that some people fall into the trap of thinking the most complex explanations are the only true ones and do not stop to consider how often the simpler explanations have more truth in them. The Beatles didn't need Theo Adorno - EMI made sure George Martin was their musical handler. Sure he developed the talents they had but he was the key to their success in the studio. I agree with you Linus that a number of ghostwriters are possible, such as Burt Bacharach etc.

'Billy Shears' also asserts that Theo Adorno owned the Beatles' publishing because he wrote their songs. I'll believe it if somebody can come up with some facts as opposed to continually rehashed assertions. I am open to it if there is something to back it up. However, as Cheryl noted in another thread, Dick James owned the publishing through Northern Songs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Biography for
Dick James (III) More at IMDbPro »
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Date of Death
1986

Entered the music-publishing business as his singing career declined; his clients included both Elton John and the Beatles.

James sold his shares of Northern Songs (the company he co-founded with The Beatles and Brian Epstein) to Britain's ATV in 1969, fearing both the Beatles' breakup and the negative publicity generated by John and Yoko's "peace campaign." James reportedly made no attempt to either inform the Beatles of his plans or give them a chance to buy him out; John learned of the sale reading a newspaper during his honeymoon with Yoko, after the deal was completed. James' action resulted in John and Paul's losing control of Northern Songs, and their own song copyrights.

[cherilyn7]

See above: if James sold his shares then who owned the other shares (thus part of the Lennon/McCartney songbook)? Wouldn't this have been the Estate of Brian Epstein?

[cherilyn7]

Moreover, it would seem that if Elton John was also on the books of Dick James, then it would be natural that as the end of The Beatles coincided with the rise of Elton John's career, so in his early years as a songwriter he quite possibly could have been "ghostwriting" songs for others, including Lennon/McCartney and I would postulate that others may have been as ticket2ride stated; possibly Burt Bacharach and Donovan and others.

Also, it follows that if both JPM and Lennon were replaced by Bill and Fohn; then that would explain those shares being sold without bothering to inform the writers, as the songs were not owned by Lennon/McCartney anyway. It would appear that Brian Epstein also owned the Lennon/McCartney songbook together with Dick James but John and Paul (the originals) never owned their own material. Could it be another reason for The Beatles decision to stop touring as they were not making the money people thought they were and had become disenchanted with the whole thing?

[beacon]

Oct 23, 2013 17:38:28 GMT -5 cherilyn7 said:

Moreover, it would seem that if Elton John was also on the books of Dick James, then it would be natural that as the end of The Beatles coincided with the rise of Elton John's career, so in his early years as a songwriter he quite possibly could have been "ghostwriting" songs for others, including Lennon/McCartney and I would postulate that others may have been as ticket2ride stated; possibly Burt Bacharach and Donovan and others.

Also, it follows that if both JPM and Lennon were replaced by Bill and Fohn; then that would explain those shares being sold without bothering to inform the writers, as the songs were not owned by Lennon/McCartney anyway. It would appear that Brian Epstein also owned the Lennon/McCartney songbook together with Dick James but John and Paul (the originals) never owned their own material. Could it be another reason for The Beatles decision to stop touring as they were not making the money people thought they were and had become disenchanted with the whole thing?

Apologies for the length of the following tract, however, this what I wrote in the Beatles Book of Revelations and it is a lengthy passage:-

The origins of this tale can be traced back to early 1963 when George Martin advised Brian Epstein to find a good publisher as Epstein had been disappointed that EMI's Ardmore and Beechwood publishing company had done almost nothing to promote the release of Love Me Do. Martin recommended three publishers who, in his opinion, would be fair and honest, and this led Epstein to the doors of Dick James.
James had been a singer himself originally but had turned to publishing when his singing career began to wane. Following George Martin’s advice James was contacted by Brian Epstein and agreed an appointment for eleven o'clock the following morning. Having arranged a prior meeting at 10.00, Epstein left in disgust at 10.25 when the executive he was due to meet failed to appear and arrived at James's office at 10.40. Epstein apologised to the receptionist for being early and offered to wait until 11.00; nevertheless, the receptionist contacted James who promptly ushered Epstein into his office. Having heard Please, Please Me and telling Epstein it was a number one James immediately picked up the phone and called Philip Jones, the producer of the prestigious TV show, Thank Your Lucky Stars, playing him the acetate over the phone, and saying the song was "a guaranteed future hit".

Fortuitously, Jones agreed, and promised the Beatles a spot on the show. Epstein, suitably amazed at the speed of the booking, decided that James was a man he could trust and he was immediately invited to publish and promote the record.

On 22 February 1963, James suggested to Epstein that forming a company with John Lennon, Paul McCartney and Epstein would accrue more money in the long run. Lennon and McCartney, apparently, thought they would own the whole company, but were, in fact, given 20 shares each, Epstein had another 10 shares whilst and James and his partner, Charles Silver, controlled the remaining 50.

In his autobiography All You Need Is Ears, George Martin recounts the moment Dick James signed the band. “Dick was delighted. Straight away he agreed to take the publishing and in so doing made a very clever deal. He suggested to Brian that a new company, to be called Northern Songs, should be started, of which he would own 50% and the Beatles and Brian the other 50%. It was clever because in offering as large a slice as 50% he ensured that he would sign a contract for a long period of time, during which all their works would go to that company”.

The company's shares were to be owned for a period of 10 years and the company controlled the copyrights to 56 songs. The agreement further stipulated that a minimum of six new songs by Lennon and McCartney were to be written each year. A separate company, Maclen Music, which published Lennon and McCartney's music in the United States, was also controlled by Northern Songs with both companies being administered by Dick James Music. Northern Songs also published George Harrison's early compositions, as well as Ringo Starr's.

McCartney would later claim that they signed all the contracts Epstein presented to them without reading them first, with Lennon adding, "We had complete faith in Brian when he was running us. To us, he was the expert”. Dick James offered George Martin shares as well, but these he turned down, stating that it might well be unethical as he was employed by EMI. A noble, but possibly foolhardy, sentiment given the money he could have made and given the pittance that EMI then paid him.

The monies Northern Songs accrued were then channelled into a second company, Lenmac Enterprises; owned by Lennon and McCartney (40% each) and NEMS (North End Music Stores) 20%. The company would collect profits from the UK sales only.

By 1965 it was decided that to make Northern Songs a public company would save on capital gains tax. 1,250,000 shares were floated on the London Stock Exchange at a value of 17 pence each, however, they were offered for sale at 66 pence each. Although this offer was derided by various financial institutions, it was still fully expected that the application lists would not remain open for more than 60 seconds,which is what duly happened. After the offer was closed, Lennon and McCartney retained 15% each, with a value of £195,200, NEMS had a 7.5% interest, and James and Silver, who became Northern Songs' chairmen, controlling 37.5%. Harrison and Starr would have to be content with a measly 1.6%.

The remaining 23.4% of the shares were owned by various other financial institutions.At the same time, Lennon and McCartney renewed their previous three-year publishing contracts, in the process binding themselves to Northern Songs until 1973.Harrison also signed with the company in 1965, for a period of three years. Dick James clearly realised what his two most important assets were and so, to protect his interests, James took out a life insurance policy on Lennon and McCartney worth £500,000.

We will discuss later the most famous Beatle conspiracy of all time, namely the Paul is Dead rumour, but, it is curious that if; and I do not ascribe to this theory, if Paul McCartney had died in 1966 that this policy was not cashed in by Dick James.

However, by the summer of 1966, there were some 88 songs by Lennon and McCartney that had been recorded and released, which amounted to an incredible 2,900 versions by different artists.
George Harrison founded his own publishing company, Mornyork Ltd. in September 1964, and had its name changed to Harrisongs by December of that year whilst Ringo Starr formed a publishing company called Startling Music.

Harrison wrote Only a Northern Song, which was then due to appear on the album Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, where the lyrics express his disappointment with his publishing contract and with the company's handling of his songs. The song was left off the album, but later appeared in the 1968 film Yellow Submarine and its soundtrack.

After Epstein's tragic, but hugely suspicious, death on August 27, 1967, Lennon and McCartney sought to renegotiate their publishing deal with Dick James. In 1968 they invited him for a meeting at Apple Records; filming the encounter and acting brusquely towards him. Whatever outcome the Beatles thought they could attain from this meeting appears to have failed spectacularly as, early in 1969, James and Silver abruptly sold their shares in Northern Songs to ATV for £1,525,000 giving the band no notice, or indeed, the chance to buy them out.

As a matter of fact John Lennon only learned of the sale from a morning newspaper during his honeymoon with Yoko Ono and he immediately called McCartney. The ensuing meeting of minds yielded an initial plan of action whereby Lennon and McCartney would make efforts to secure ownership of the publishing rights,but their bid to gain control, part of a long and acrimonious fight, would be ultimately doomed to failure. The financial power of television impresario Lew Grade, their adversary in the bidding war, ensured that the music written by the two Beatles passed into the control of ATV. Lennon and McCartney were offered £9,000,000 for their remaining shares by ATV on 5 April 1969, but turned down the offer.

This failed attempt would ultimately cost Paul McCartney dearly, however, John Lennon, who was by now being held very firmly to the bosom of one Allen Klein, along with Harrison and Starr, instructed Klein to attempt to set up a deal for Apple Corps to buy ATV out. This was stopped by attorney John Eastman—Linda McCartney's brother, and son of McCartney's future business manager, Lee Eastman—who sent a letter to ATV informing them that Klein was not authorised to act on Apple's behalf.

Although this was technically true, Klein was the de facto manager for Lennon, Harrison and Starr, and he also had McCartney's verbal go-ahead for the deal. ATV backed out rather than risk being pulled into litigation, so next, a block of investors who owned a small, but crucial, percentage of shares was lobbied by both sides to sell out or cooperate with them to take control of Northern Songs.

Any Beatle hopes of success via this route were scuppered however, when John Lennon, never slow to express an opinion, stated during negotiations, "I'm sick to death of being fucked about by men in suits sitting on their fat arses in the City!" Whilst this admirable sentiment remains as true today as it was then it served merely to push the investors to ATV's side.

Under the terms of their publishing contract with Northern Songs, Lennon and McCartney were legally bound to continue their song-writing partnership until 1973. The solution they reasoned, if they could not gain control, was to sell out to ATV, while still receiving the writer's royalties from their published songs. Lennon and McCartney sold their stock in October 1969, for £3.5 million. Starr chose to keep his shares (0.8%), but Harrison had already sold his 40,000 shares (0.8%) in June 1969.

An interesting side note, and a pointer to the way in which McCartney was already working, was that by the time of the sale McCartney had accumulated 751,000 shares in Northern Songs compared to Lennon’s 644,000 as he had been secretly buying up additional shares.

Throughout the Seventies and indeed until after the murder of John Lennon in 1980 this state of affairs would be retained. In 1981 however, McCartney attempted to make a joint purchase of the ATV music catalogue with Lennon’s widow Yoko Ono. At a 1990 press conference, McCartney indicated that he had been offered the opportunity to purchase the songs for £20 million. Apparently he did not want to be perceived as being "grabby" for "owning John Lennon's bit of the songs" so he asked Ono if she would make a joint purchase with him, sharing the cost equally.

According to McCartney, Ono thought they could buy it for half the price being offered and he agreed to see what could be done about that. Bizarrely, McCartney then let the deal fall through as they were not able to make a joint acquisition.

Possibly even more bizarre is quite how, if Lennon and McCartney’s 40% holding was valued at £9 million in 1969, it was deemed feasible that Ono and McCartney could buy the entire catalogue in 1981 for £10 million. Whatever the truth of this issue, once again McCartney’s reluctance to splash the cash would come back to haunt him.

And enter Michael Jackson....

The real issue, if Paul, and indeed John, died or were replaced or whatever, is that the Lennon and McCartney song-writing partnership remained in place. Whatever the terms of the royalties contract the songwriters were always Lennon and McCartney. If Bacharach, Donovan, George Martin, Theo Adorno or even Elvis Presley ghost wrote songs for the Beatles then they did so without receiving a penny piece.

[ticket2ride]

Great info from both Beacon and Cheryl but Beacon, ghostwriters do not always receive royalties nor royalties officially.

Songwriters for individuals and groups can and do agree to compensation unofficially. There was no law within or without the music industry back then that stated those who ghostwrite all or some of artists` music must have the royalties or some of the royalities. And royalties are about what kind of agreements are in place whether these are officially acknowledged or not.

I think it is reasonable to assume that Lennon and McCartney developed their songwriting skills as the Beatles progressed but  to say both were the only ones responsible for song writing together and separately is to ignore the reality of how music companies have always manufactured to some extent their artists` musical output.

Did John Lennon really `write` all of the tune and the sound collage of Tomorrow Never Knows? I doubt it. He wanted Tibetan monks chanting but that turned into an eerie, trippy sound that seems very much to owe just about everything to George Martin`s production genius. Likewise the trumpet on Penny Lane. After we hear about the fireman, the trumpet solo comes in, a wonderfully evocative moment that epitomises the nostalgic mood of the song. Did Paul McCartney who has never read or written music except for writing lyrics and supposedly humming the tunes and tinkering around with the piano and guitar that apparently became the sometimes amazing songs we associate with McCartney and Lennon really write Penny Lane in the real sense of musical creation? Again there are good reasons to doubt that.

The classically trained and knowledgeable George Martin`s hand seems to be far more influential in the tunes attributed to the Beatles than many would like to acknowledge. That is more credible than Paul and John playing around on the piano and their guitars and coming up with all the tunes and structures of the different songs.

Without George Martin`s musical training and production skills, many of the songs attributed to Lennon and McCartney would lack what has come to be known as the Beatle sound. I doubt Paul McCartney or John Lennon came up with the musical arrangements for the LSD rush in A Day In The Life, or those throughout I Am The Walrus. These are only two examples, there are many, many more. I think there is good reason to believe that after the initial success of Love Me Do, it was decided to promote the Beatles and their songwriting team Lennon and McCartney as THE songwriters of their generation and they had more than a little help from Hard Days Night onward.

When it was decided by EMI and whoever else that the Beatles were going to be involved in social experimentation (remember how fake `Beatlemania` was initially), then there were songwriters both known and unknown to the public who could have been involved in songwriting to some extent. However, it seems undeniable that George Martin shaped Johin`s and Paul`s rough material and outlines of songs into actual songs. It`s a pity he refused to be involved in collecting royalties as he more than deserved them. As time goes by and we know more, I think it is fair to say that Lennon and McCartney were very good lyricists (those who keep harping on about Theo Adorno conveniently overlook the fact that John Lennon was always writing as a boy, went to Art College which no doubt  helped his development in terms of the creativity of the environment, and Paul McCartney was also interested in literature and writing) but have been credited with composition skills they did not have or developed later.

[Deleted]

Oct 26, 2013 6:46:02 GMT -5 ticket2ride said:

Great info from both Beacon and Cheryl but Beacon, ghostwriters do not always receive royalties nor royalties officially.

Songwriters for individuals and groups can and do agree to compensation unofficially. There was no law within or without the music industry back then that stated those who ghostwrite all or some of artists` music must have the royalties or some of the royalities. And royalties are about what kind of agreements are in place whether these are officially acknowledged or not.

I think it is reasonable to assume that Lennon and McCartney developed their songwriting skills as the Beatles progressed but  to say both were the only ones responsible for song writing together and separately is to ignore the reality of how music companies have always manufactured to some extent their artists` musical output.

Did John Lennon really `write` all of the tune and the sound collage of Tomorrow Never Knows? I doubt it. He wanted Tibetan monks chanting but that turned into an eerie, trippy sound that seems very much to owe just about everything to George Martin`s production genius. Likewise the trumpet on Penny Lane. After we hear about the fireman, the trumpet solo comes in, a wonderfully evocative moment that epitomises the nostalgic mood of the song. Did Paul McCartney who has never read or written music except for writing lyrics and supposedly humming the tunes and tinkering around with the piano and guitar that apparently became the sometimes amazing songs we associate with McCartney and Lennon really write Penny Lane in the real sense of musical creation? Again there are good reasons to doubt that.

The classically trained and knowledgeable George Martin`s hand seems to be far more influential in the tunes attributed to the Beatles than many would like to acknowledge. That is more credible than Paul and John playing around on the piano and their guitars and coming up with all the tunes and structures of the different songs.

Without George Martin`s musical training and production skills, many of the songs attributed to Lennon and McCartney would lack what has come to be known as the Beatle sound. I doubt Paul McCartney or John Lennon came up with the musical arrangements for the LSD rush in A Day In The Life, or those throughout I Am The Walrus. These are only two examples, there are many, many more. I think there is good reason to believe that after the initial success of Love Me Do, it was decided to promote the Beatles and their songwriting team Lennon and McCartney as THE songwriters of their generation and they had more than a little help from Hard Days Night onward.

When it was decided by EMI and whoever else that the Beatles were going to be involved in social experimentation (remember how fake `Beatlemania` was initially), then there were songwriters both known and unknown to the public who could have been involved in songwriting to some extent. However, it seems undeniable that George Martin shaped Johin`s and Paul`s rough material and outlines of songs into actual songs. It`s a pity he refused to be involved in collecting royalties as he more than deserved them. As time goes by and we know more, I think it is fair to say that Lennon and McCartney were very good lyricists (those who keep harping on about Theo Adorno conveniently overlook the fact that John Lennon was always writing as a boy, went to Art College which no doubt  helped his development in terms of the creativity of the environment, and Paul McCartney was also interested in literature and writing) but have been credited with composition skills they did not have or developed later.

Ghost Written




lol

[cherilyn7]

Oct 26, 2013 8:35:19 GMT -5 lucy said:

Oct 26, 2013 6:46:02 GMT -5 ticket2ride said:

Great info from both Beacon and Cheryl but Beacon, ghostwriters do not always receive royalties nor royalties officially.

Songwriters for individuals and groups can and do agree to compensation unofficially. There was no law within or without the music industry back then that stated those who ghostwrite all or some of artists` music must have the royalties or some of the royalities. And royalties are about what kind of agreements are in place whether these are officially acknowledged or not.

I think it is reasonable to assume that Lennon and McCartney developed their songwriting skills as the Beatles progressed but  to say both were the only ones responsible for song writing together and separately is to ignore the reality of how music companies have always manufactured to some extent their artists` musical output.

When it was decided by EMI and whoever else that the Beatles were going to be involved in social experimentation (remember how fake `Beatlemania` was initially), then there were songwriters both known and unknown to the public who could have been involved in songwriting to some extent.
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Ticket2Ride I agree with you entirely, that when it was realised that Lennon/McCartney could be a moneymaking machine: it would not be difficult to decide to have freelance songwriters who worked for the record companies anyway writing songs that would be put out under "composition of Lennon/McCartney" and would merely receive a retainer/fixed payment for the songs they wrote; of course not receiving royalties. As it appears that Lennon/McCartney were not getting all the royalties either. Don't forget that in the 'sixties people like Donovan and Elton John were writing songs but would have been more than happy to get a stipend for these compositions like earning daily bread and butter. The Beatles themselves, as they took off and became in demand all over the world, would not have had time to sit down and write these, mainly love songs, for all and sundry. But in the early 'sixties, a Lennon/McCartney composition would become virtually guaranteed as a hit record.

[cherilyn7]

Quoting Beacon:

On 22 February 1963, James suggested to Epstein that forming a company with John Lennon, Paul McCartney and Epstein would accrue more money in the long run. Lennon and McCartney, apparently, thought they would own the whole company, but were, in fact, given 20 shares each, Epstein had another 10 shares whilst and James and his partner, Charles Silver, controlled the remaining 50.
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It seems obvious that Dick James knew exactly what he was doing and, if Lennon and McCartney (the originals) had thought they would "own the company" this was not explained to them properly that they would not. This seems another bad business deal along the lines of Seltaeb (merchandising), which was almost handed on a plate to David Jacobs and Nicky Byrne. George Martin, meanwhile, seems to have been merely the "middle man" and receiving nothing.
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The company would collect profits from the UK sales only. quote Beacon
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Who collected the US and other sales royalties?
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Harrison and Starr would have to be content with a measly 1.6%. quote Beacon~
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Not surprising really as they didn't write much (Starr virtually nothing): which brings up the question of The Beatles' huge wealth. Great research Beacon, thankyou.

[LOVELYRITA]

I've heard the story about Theo Adorno writing every song...seriously....you'd have to have to do it with witchcraft or some otherworldly power to write all the styles of all the musical acts of the 1960's. Seriously one man writing the styles of the Beatles, the Stones, Jimi Hendrix, the Doors, and everything else under the sun? He'd be working around the clock to create all the music. Did Barry Mannilow write a song about Theo,
I write the songs that make the whole world sing...

Seriously, one man writing every song? Dang...imagine what goes on in his mind?

[whammo]

I think more likely is that they were getting their songwriting help from the "other side" like Yoko suggested.

[Deleted]

Nov 26, 2014 9:22:00 GMT -5 whammo said:

I think more likely is that they were getting their songwriting help from the "other side" like Yoko suggested.

More "help" than you can possibly imagine.

lol

[Deleted]

Ode to Joy





lol

[B]

*looking over zine cover *

Hmmm. Herman was replaced! (By Peter! )

Crazy Disguise!
mmm hmmm


A star is reborn!
(Guess who!)

hmmm...
1966-I'm A Fool--DINO,DESI & BILLY
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpG1yB8TDyg


Everything you wanted to know about Cher:

[Deleted]

Nov 29, 2014 12:52:53 GMT -5 B said:

*looking over zine cover *

Hmmm. Herman was replaced! (By Peter! )

Crazy Disguise!
mmm hmmm


A star is reborn!
(Guess who!)

Unmask the Stars and Win Fantabulous Prizes!

lol

[LOVELYRITA]

Fantabulous prizes? What? A lifetime supply of rice a roni? The entire Herman's Hermit's Catalog? All the intimate secrets of Mark Lindsey? All you wanted to know about Cher? Dave Clark Problems of being handsome and talented? Dino Desi and Billy, I know about Dino and Desi, but who is Billy? Don't say it, don't say it, Billy Campbell, or Billy Shepherd....LOLOL

This reminds me of those 16 magazines my sister used to get that had these dudes in it, along with the pinup dude from the tv show Flipper....LOL
Talk about a blast from the past.