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Post by JoJo on Nov 13, 2005 13:38:18 GMT -5
Just a thought.. The story goes, as Sir Paul has told it a few times, that he wrote this about the civil rights struggle for blacks after reading about race riots in the US. I had another thought after seeing this site. The "tower ravens" occupy the tower of London, and there must be at least six there at all times, lest both Tower and Monarchy fall. To prevent the birds flying away one of their wings is clipped by the Raven Master. This does not hurt the raven nor does it harm them in any way. By unbalancing their flight it ensures that they don't stray too far from the Tower.Blackbird singing in the dead of night Take these broken wings and learn to flyJust speculation of course, but his book of poetry is called "Blackbird Singing", it must have some important meaning to him, perhaps beyond what has been said. I think of the tower as representative of the monarchy's control, and one could perhaps see the ravens (blackbirds) as its prisoners in a symbolic way.
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Post by Doc on Nov 14, 2005 0:04:01 GMT -5
Just a thought.. The story goes, as Sir Paul has told it a few times, that he wrote this about the civil rights struggle for blacks after reading about race riots in the US. I had another thought after seeing this site. The "tower ravens" occupy the tower of London, and there must be at least six there at all times, lest both Tower and Monarchy fall. To prevent the birds flying away one of their wings is clipped by the Raven Master. This does not hurt the raven nor does it harm them in any way. By unbalancing their flight it ensures that they don't stray too far from the Tower.Blackbird singing in the dead of night Take these broken wings and learn to flyJust speculation of course, but his book of poetry is called "Blackbird Singing", it must have some important meaning to him, perhaps beyond what has been said. I think of the tower as representative of the monarchy's control, and one could perhaps see the ravens (blackbirds) as its prisoners in a symbolic way. Very interesting. I have always thought of a "tower" in terms of it being a dark, medieval archetype symbolizing either control, defense, strategy, or detainment. The Rook.
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Post by JoJo on Dec 19, 2005 18:09:04 GMT -5
Speaking of Blackbird, (the song) I have a bootleg with a number of rehearsals for the song, and I strung together pieces of three of them. The reason is, Bill says "take these broken wings" or take these sunken eyes", followed by on my life. There's something interesting in the end too.. Most of the rehearsal clips have the usual wording, but does this make the meaning more clear perhaps? Blackbird
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Post by Doc on Dec 20, 2005 4:31:35 GMT -5
Speaking of Blackbird, (the song) I have a bootleg with a number of rehearsals for the song, and I strung together pieces of three of them. The reason is, Bill says "take these broken wings" or take these sunken eyes", followed by on my life. There's something interesting in the end too.. Most of the rehearsal clips have the usual wording, but does this make the meaning more clear perhaps? BlackbirdSir Paul is a madcap in the comic stream of Peter Sellers. At times. At the top of your clip Jojo (thanks) it sound to me like SirPaul is singing these words :"whoever's singing in the dead of night?" It's "whoever's", not "blackbird", that first time........ Well, I enjoyed those duets of Blackbird. Clearly two guitars, maybe one pre-taped........two singers, or one pre-taped.... Or in the room at the same time............unmixed playback....overlapped on occasion...... William, in these extemporaneous musical flights can really send me into bouts of giggles*........good gracious, what must he launch into when they turn OFF the mics?...... *Which have helped to lower my blood pressure and increase my mood index. Who needs Paxil when you've got the Nagra rolls? I listened to some of those one night, and it got me all laughing and cheery at work for a couple of days. A co-worker asked me what got into me, why was I being so jolly? Knowing it would mean zilch to anyone else, I said, "It was the Nagra Rolls." Blank stare. After a moment she says, "Is that sushi?" "Not exactly, but you might not enjoy them. They're more of an acquired tapes." "But what's in 'em?" "Read the package." Days pass. "No, really. What's in 'em?" "Bits of everything, a real variety plate. Scraps, pieces, raw and unprocessed." "But is it like, fish, or chicken? That's all I wanna know. Is it fish or fowl or pork or what? It's not dog is it? "Not it's not dog. They're made of acetate." "Ooh. That doesn't sound too good." "You wanted to know. But they sound really cool." "Huh?" Don't tell 'em everything. Leave 'em beggin' for more.
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Post by Doc on Dec 20, 2005 4:41:26 GMT -5
Just a thought.. The story goes, as Sir Paul has told it a few times, that he wrote this about the civil rights struggle for blacks after reading about race riots in the US. I had another thought after seeing this site. The "tower ravens" occupy the tower of London, and there must be at least six there at all times, lest both Tower and Monarchy fall. To prevent the birds flying away one of their wings is clipped by the Raven Master. This does not hurt the raven nor does it harm them in any way. By unbalancing their flight it ensures that they don't stray too far from the Tower.Blackbird singing in the dead of night Take these broken wings and learn to flyJust speculation of course, but his book of poetry is called "Blackbird Singing", it must have some important meaning to him, perhaps beyond what has been said. I think of the tower as representative of the monarchy's control, and one could perhaps see the ravens (blackbirds) as its prisoners in a symbolic way. Free as a bird? Wings? Paul McCartney AND Wings? I have an occasional dream tha has had a wierd, archetypal symbol in it. It even has a name, in my dreams, in the past. I don't seem to dream about it anymore. It's a dark and foreboding location, in some rugged countryside, a kind of place like Colorado or Wyoming, in my imaginative dreams. In my dreams, it was called, "Nespin's Tower." A mountain, jagged, angular, tall, with a spirelike rock projection on top. I have even googled it and of course it does not exist. Nespin's Tower. Home to vultures and jackyls and the like. Visible for miles around. A sort of pinnacle of gloom. Any thoughts? I guess that's just a private quirk.......I'll get over it........
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Post by beatlies on Dec 20, 2005 10:12:10 GMT -5
Who really wrote "Blackbird"? Certainly not Sheppard/Faul.
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Post by TotalInformation on Dec 20, 2005 11:33:17 GMT -5
JPM wrote it about the civil rights question while touring in America.
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Post by JoJo on Dec 20, 2005 16:54:24 GMT -5
JPM wrote it about the civil rights question while touring in America. It's a guess though. (an educated one yes) I mean we have Bill of course telling that story over the years, and even in one of the rehearsal boots. (not the one that I posted) It sounds like maybe it's a JPM composition, but no tape of it being sung, or any discussion for that matter pre 1967, exists in anything I've found to date. The rehearsals are the same man, of course this being 1968 means..
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Post by Doc on Dec 20, 2005 18:20:21 GMT -5
At a later point in your recent combined clip, jojo, William begins to sing "Congratulations" by Cliff Richard: CONGRATULATIONS - 10/04/1968 2 weeks at #1 - 13 weeks on chart Congratulations and celebrations When I tell everyone that you're in love with me Congratulations and jubilations I want the world to know I'm happy as can be Who would believe that I could be happy and contented I used to think that happiness hadn't been invented But that was in the bad old days before I met you When I let you walk into my heart Congratulations and celebrations When I tell everyone that you're in love with me Congratulations and jubilations I want the world to know I'm happy as can be I was afraid to think that you thought you were above me That I was only fooling myself to think you'd love me But then tonight you said you couldn't live without me That round about me you wanted to stay Congratulations and celebrations When I tell everyone that you're in love with me Congratulations and jubilations I want the world to know I'm happy as can be Congratulations and jubilations I want the world to know I'm happy as can be Hmmm., October 1968. This webpage: www.upv.es/~ecabrera/white.htmlgives us this as the dates in which the White Album was recorded: * The Beatles (White Album) * Recording Dates May 30th 1968 - October 13th 1968 * Release Date: November 25, 1968 The Rough Guide to the Beatles gives the recording date for Blackbird as June 11, 1968. According to this: www.eurosongonline.com/2005/oct05/50_show.htm"Congratulations" missed winning the EuroSongContest by merely one point back in 1968. That same song opened this past year's awards celebration. (It appears from reading.) So, did Cliff Richard play the song for William, or Paul, before June 11, 1968? Did William...or Paul...."ghost" write it? Was Cliff Richard about in the studios at a similar time? Were he and Paul/William pals? Are these song dates all wrong on the internet? Either "Billboard" or a European equivalent would have the answer to when "Congratualtions" was recorded and released. Point is, it seems that William was "spoofing it" in the studio four or five months before it was on the radio in Britain......
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Post by LOVELYRITA on Dec 20, 2005 22:10:18 GMT -5
Blackbird sounds like JPM composition. JPM had more insight to things like that, Bill, wasn't radical until he became vegetarian and animal rights....unless this was Bill's attempt at the endangered blackbird....
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Post by TotalInformation on Dec 22, 2005 13:40:54 GMT -5
Or... the official dates for some of the WA recording sessions are lies. Is that Sir FAUL singing Blackbird on WA, or an old JPM tape?
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Post by mciiii on Dec 22, 2005 14:31:42 GMT -5
I found this: According to "The Beatles Recording Sessions: The Official Abbey Road Studio Session Notes 1962-1970" - - - - "Tuesday, 11 June, 1968. While John was busy experimenting with sounds, Paul started and finished the recording of 'Blackbird', a lovely new composition which featured his own lead vocal, double-tracked in places via an overdub, accompanied by his acoustic guitar and a metronome gently ticking away in the background. It was a straightforward recording - no reductions necessary - and was perfected by the 32nd run through, just 11 of which were complete."
Of course, after December 1980, Sir Bill McSelfish loves to rewrite the story.
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Post by LOVELYRITA on Dec 22, 2005 22:28:40 GMT -5
That's something you have to watch for when doing research on the recording sessions, was it documented at that time, or was this source more recent? As you say, Sir Bill has a different twist on the history.
The only way one could truly say the Blackbird "voice" is JPM, is if someone had the technology to have voice comparisons of Blackbird and something similiar of JPM's like And I Love Her or Yesterday. something that wasn't overdubbed or altered in any way..
I still say that's JPM's voice. I had wondered about "I Will" ? Bill never had a soft love song that sounded like that. Bill's lovesongs were all "silly"......saccharine...
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Post by TotalInformation on Dec 22, 2005 23:14:55 GMT -5
Perhaps FAUL recorded several versions of Blackbird, but they used a JPM track anyway. So... the boots and Anthology is FAUL, and JPM is on the "The BEATLES" double-LP?
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Post by JoJo on Dec 23, 2005 6:10:48 GMT -5
Perhaps FAUL recorded several versions of Blackbird, but they used a JPM track anyway. So... the boots and Anthology is FAUL, and JPM is on the "The BEATLES" double-LP? By and large we seem to be convinced by trusting our own ears..You guys know where to find this stuff..
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Post by LOVELYRITA on Dec 23, 2005 21:06:20 GMT -5
Do tell, I'm new to this forum...
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Post by DarkHorse on Dec 23, 2005 23:40:17 GMT -5
It's Bill singing Blackbird on the WA.
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Post by lili on Dec 27, 2005 10:27:18 GMT -5
I find it maddening sometimes, trying to distinguish their voices. The boys played with the vocals to try to get Bill's voice as close to Paul's as possible. I'm pretty sure that is adding to the confusion. It's definitely Paul singing She's Leaving Home and Penny Lane.
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Post by Doc on Dec 27, 2005 10:42:26 GMT -5
I find it maddening sometimes, trying to distinguish their voices. The boys played with the vocals to try to get Bill's voice as close to Paul's as possible. I'm pretty sure that is adding to the confusion. It's definitely Paul singing She's Leaving Home and Penny Lane. I dont know---there is a bootleg version of Penny Lane that I have heard having a different sounding mix that for the life of me sounds like John is tracked along in there too. And sometimes I hear a hint I said just a hint of William on She's Leaving Home. What am I to do. And now Her Majesty is like, to my hearing, totally Sir Paul. I don't know if I was righter then, or wronger now. It's embarrassin'. My ears are turning to mushola. I'm going to have to turn in my "Listen and Guess Who Permit" when this year's fees run out. No renewals for me. lol From now on, if anyone asks me, "say DrRob who do you think sings this?" I'm simply replyin'..."The Beatles." That about covers it. About.
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Post by lili on Dec 27, 2005 11:23:12 GMT -5
As far as you hearing those things, it goes along with what I've already said. The boys played around with the material that they had recorded of Paul's. They did things to it to try to blend the two voices together. So that it would be more difficult to differentiate between the two. It's insidious !
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Post by JoJo on Dec 27, 2005 11:25:28 GMT -5
I know the version of Penny Lane of which you speak, and completely agree that John is tracked in there in spots. The main voice is.. I dunno, but I had a hunch, and of course it's just a hunch but.. Harry Nilsson's name has come up as a vocal imitator, and the high notes in PL made me think of that TV theme song he did way back, it was on when I was a kid, "The Courtship of Eddie's Father". www.sitcomsonline.com/eddiesfatherthemesong.html
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Post by Doc on Dec 27, 2005 12:12:25 GMT -5
As far as you hearing those things, it goes along with what I've already said. The boys played around with the material that they had recorded of Paul's. They did things to it to try to blend the two voices together. So that it would be more difficult to differentiate between the two. It's insidious ! Thank you for this post. That helps to re-think it that wait. Makes sense.
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Post by Doc on Dec 27, 2005 12:16:30 GMT -5
I know the version of Penny Lane of which you speak, and completely agree that John is tracked in there in spots. The main voice is.. I dunno, but I had a hunch, and of course it's just a hunch but.. Harry Nilsson's name has come up as a vocal imitator, and the high notes in PL made me think of that TV theme song he did way back, it was on when I was a kid, "The Courtship of Eddie's Father". www.sitcomsonline.com/eddiesfatherthemesong.htmlAn idea to consider. I gave the Eddie theme a listen, there is a similarity of timbre. Actually, on "Nillson Schmillson", Nillson manifested a real versatile voice. There are a lot of "colors" vocally across that album----one thing that makes it wonderful. (I like it from listening only recently.) Good commercial versatility, good clean voice, good range of styles. Power and restraint when needed. But Penny Lane? I will put that in my listening cap. OK, I'll renew.
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Post by LOVELYRITA on Dec 27, 2005 22:29:06 GMT -5
Hey, The Harry Nielson connection makes sense to me. First of all, the similarities in voices could be a consideration. He was also recording the Badfinger song "Without You". Which I really thought was his song originally. Badfinger=Apple connection....Bill brought those boys in...or so the historical account goes... Didn't he have projects with Ringo as well? Maybe my brain is getting fogged.
I'm also a firm believer that the Beatles had interchanged their vocals. "Do You Want To Know A Secret?" I thought was George originally. But listening to some points like "I'm in love with you..." as being John. So did they take turns on certain verses or lines? Overdubbing each other's voices may give that affect as well. And who knows if Bill didn't get overdubbed into it as well, giving many layers to a song?
Just a thought.
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Post by plastic paul on Dec 28, 2005 9:29:54 GMT -5
"Do You Want To Know A Secret" is most definitely George, believe me!
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