The biggest Johns clue on lyrics?

[eggy]

Well i think this is the biggest clue John wrote about PID, he wrote it clear, very clear


Glass Onion

I told you about the walrus and me, man
You know that we're as close as can be, man
Well here's another clue for you all
The walrus was Paul

[madtitan125]

Not only that, notice how he says that he was the one who told you about the fool on the hill.

Is "Fool On The Hill" a John composition?

Probably. It sure wasn't Faul.

This wouldn't be the first time Faul sang a John composition. "Getting Better" also seems to be
written by John.

I used to be cruel to my woman
I beat her and kept her apart from the
things that she lovedTEXT

Maybe a little confession from John?

[eggy]

Agree 100% with you about that subject!!!

[jonna]

John isn't the only one a little confused. on the anthology Faul seems to have a problem remembering how the song and the movie title "help" came about

[eggy]

Jonna said:

John isn't the only one a little confused. on the anthology Faul seems to have a problem remembering how the song and the movie title "help" came about

Hahaha!!! Yeah, it was hard for him to remember how it happened ;D

[FlamingPie]

madtitan125 said:

I used to be cruel to my woman
I beat her and kept her apart from the
things that she loved

Maybe a little confession from John?

Yes, John did write that part of the song.

[madtitan125]

Hi Jonna,

No surprise about Faul not remembering, as he wasn't around at the time!

That reminds me of a post I read on the other PID forum, where "Paul" is being interviewed by Rolling Stone magazine and he gets confused as to which (pre-Faul) songs are on which albums.

Faul also goes on to make up some story about John complimenting his songwriting while they listen to some cassettes while at some ski resort.

Never mind that cassettes didn't exist at that time!

Hi again, Flaming Pie! John wrote "that part" of the song? Uh uh.

The Lennon/McCartney songwriting partnership didn't work that way. They usually wrote their own songs and sang the songs that they wrote.

There weren't too many, if any, "collaborations" like the one you are suggesting.

Paul and John were a songwriting team in the sense that I believe they in a sense competed with each other. Each made the other better.

The fact that they stopped harmonizing together says a lot. To me, it says that John's singing buddy Paul isn't there anymore.

I don't see how anyone could believe that the same Paul who was selfless enough could give John first songwriter's credits on songs like "Yesterday" ,
"Eleanor Rigby", "Michelle", etc. etc could be the same guy we see in the "Let It Be" film.

John and Paul would never have ended up this way.

[SimMHoward]

madtitan125 said:

Hi again, Flaming Pie! John wrote "that part" of the song? Uh uh.

The Lennon/McCartney songwriting partnership didn't work that way. They usually wrote their own songs and sang the songs that they wrote.

There weren't too many, if any, "collaborations" like the one you are suggesting.

Nevermind that big part in A Day In The Life where Paul added his song in, or in We Can Work It Out, where Paul wrote the chorus and Lennon wrote the middle part

[Harb]

Interesting point.... if you reverse the line 'The Walrus was Paul' you get the message 'Paul was the walrus / wrong one'. A direct speech reversal is certainly something...

[JoJo]

The Lennon/McCartney songwriting partnership didn't work that way. They usually wrote their own songs and sang the songs that they wrote.

That's the story that's been handed down yes, I and others can recite that one chapter and verse. That's a nice side issue to investigate, was that the story in interviews or at least the commonly understood one pre 1967, or is that something that sorta creeped in afterwards?

The fact that they stopped harmonizing together says a lot. To me, it says that John's singing buddy Paul isn't there anymore.

Yes those harmonies in the early songs were great, you can see when they lip sync to the songs in the promo videos or on Ed Sullivan for example, that George and Paul harmonized together a lot, perhaps more than John and Paul. I just think of Paul always stepping aside at the precise moment I don't know how many times to make room for George to share the mic. Where are George and Paul's voices blended so seamlessly together after 1967?

Or as George said in Only a Northern Song:

If you think the harmony
Is a little dark and out of key
You're correct, there's nobody there.

[jonna]

madtitan125 said:

The Lennon/McCartney songwriting partnership didn't work that way. They usually wrote their own songs and sang the songs that they wrote.

There weren't too many, if any, "collaborations" like the one you are suggesting.

Paul and John were a songwriting team in the sense that I believe they in a sense competed with each other. Each made the other better.

Hi again Madtitan
your right i remember that post and i also remember reading somewhere that they always sang the songs that they wrote, that was how i learned to know which song was written by whom...

[Doc]

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, I had the impression that primarily, each would wordk alone on the germ of the song, get it to a certain point of being finished, then play it for the other one. At that point, the other might suggest a lyric rewrite, or a new section (a la We Can Work It Out, John himself claimed to have come up with "the middle 8", and Harrison suggested the 3/4. Who suggested the harmonium? I love it...) So, by and large, the most of the song was by one or the other, with "trim" added or lyric fixies sometimes suggested by the other.

I imagine a time or two Lennon may have said to Paul, "Macca, that's bloody dreadful. You can't record that one, you know......" Just my imagination....................

I think in a reverse situation, my imagination is that Paul might have said, with less judgemental finality , "John, really? Are you serious? Well, a good beat will help it along.........."

[madtitan125]

Hi everyone,

I know there were some instances where they would add embellishment the other's song. I'm sure they bounced ideas off each other and the like.

I just meant I find it hard to imagine the scenario where Paul wrote "Getting Better", and John contributing a verse about him beating up his woman.

For me, it makes more sense that John wrote the song.
Especially since he was also recovering from the loss of his best friend.

[FlamingPie]

Hey, I was just getting that info from a book called "Beatlesongs". I suggest you guys get it.

[Doc]

Well, Just my opinion, but I strongly feel that I hear James Paul's voice of most of the lead of the song. I have suspected this one was being worked on for Revolver, it didn't make it, and got revived and finished for SPLHCB. JMO.

That third verse may have been Paul's recognition of John's evolution of self control. (He got better, we think....)

Just opinions---------I am not frozen to these ideas..........

[madtitan125]

I'm not sure if Paul would have ever addressed such a touchy subject (John's violent, abusive nature) like this.

But with Paul gone by this time, Faul was just singing about something he probably didn't really have an opinion about anyway.

If that is Faul! I believe there were a couple of vocal imitators that may have been around at this time.

And these lyrics wouldn't have made it to vinyl anyway without John's OK.

[Doc]

Yes to all your points------is not it possible some tracks were begun and kept, (during Rovolver)and perhaps edited into songs, or finished off later? I Pepper away for a while, when I got it back out, my impressions remain. I don't know. Really, a hard thing to sort out.

The easiest thing to say is, well, its all Paul of course. All of it.

[JoJo]

Doctor Robert, to go back to your scenario of a cooperative song writing session, I think yes that true, I see a situation where they each work on their own ideas, a quiet time by themselves, and then they gravitate towards each other to mix it together. I don't see a rigid framework, where one writes the music, and one writes the lyrics. We've just been sold this, I just have to think that's just another story that came along while we weren't paying attention.

As for Pepper, there could have been scraps that were left from Revolver, and John was forced to imagine what Paul's contribution and input would have been.

[Doc]

Well, and let me say that I also think they both had strong egos and a drive to write a whole of the song themselves. I think as time went on, they were more independant of each other anyway-----people who know each other well and have maintained a caring friendship know how to maintain the equilibrium. Fogive this notion, but a "musical interloper" would not. Its all in how one percieve's the other fellow (or lady) is intending their actions and words. A prank or teasing remark made by Paul might have, coming from Bill, been felt and interpreted a totally different way. Of course, I think Bill (if there was a Bill) most likely would have respected boundaries-----he's certainly intelligent and perceptive a plenty.

I think Lennon may have suffered a slow, crippling frustration and resentment. And, if things were as we have pondered, John would have had no direct outlet or solution. His last 14 years may have been one long stifled cry. So, either silently go mad, or run away to another country, hunker down in an escape mode (a la drugs, recording, or Yoko) and just bear up under it. Or, just walrus up as the case may be.

There's a new soft drink---"Walrus Up." EEEEyyyewwww.....

Of course the Beatle told history is a commercial fabrication to a degree an any event--------with a living Paul that would still be true. In the record world, it really isn't "All you need is love." (Unfortunately.) Its: "All You Need is Public Relations."

I think you're right---Paul and John weren't partners in the way the Rodgers and Hart were, Dick always did the tune, handed it off, and waited for the drunk Larry to scrabble out some poetry on a napkin............(as brilliant as his lyrics really were)

They both wrote melody and lyric well, maybe different stylistically.

And after all, doesn't the center piece of A Day in the LIfe at least seem like a bit saved from an earlier Paul tape, and mixed in? I fancy that the first part was Lennon's devising to fit around it, after he found the snippet. The snippet was probably ALWAYS going to be on the record, any way Lennon could artistically work it in. It works so well, and is so compelling, that my little theorty will always sound wrong about it. The problem is, it probably WAS contrived, but it simply DOES NOT SOUND LIKE IT. Martin and Lennon genius. Of course, I could be wrong about everything.

.

[eggy]

I'm agree with FP, if you want to know who wrote what, just go here:

www.geocities.com/~beatleboy1/dbsongs.html

You'll find the info you need in their own words

[FlamingPie]

Eggy said:

I'm agree with FP, if you want to know who wrote what, just go here:

www.geocities.com/~beatleboy1/dbsongs.html

You'll find the info you need in their own words

Wow Eggy, I didn't know there was a website like that! But the book has more info.

[angie]

I'd like to add a bit to what's already been mentioned.
Just a few thought's on some lyrics. Many have been mentioned previously. I find them quite interesting!

Glass Onion: "The Walrus was Paul."

Come Together:"He got walrus gumboot."

I Am The Walrus: "Oh I am the walrus "
"Goo Goo G'Joob" J'oob=job?
Mr. City Police man= singular "Sitting Pretty"= Faul has got it "made in the shade" as Paul's replacement?

"Little Police MAN " in a ROW *again with the "singular" as opposed to a "plural" reference* = "Mr. City PoliceMAN sitting pretty."


Little PoliceMAN in a ROW . Dust up? = Faul is in the eye of a hurricane. He's safe with the Beatles offering protection. Surrounding him however is the possibility of the discovery that he has replaced Paul?

G'Joob=Job+ PoliceMAN=Faul?

You Never Give Me Your Money:
"And in the middle of investigation, I break down" = Lousy Beat Cop?

"Out of Collage, money spent, see no future, pay no rent." Faul's down and out!
"All the moneys gone, nowhere to go!"
"Any jobber got the sack; " *Faul's been fired from Police duty?* "Yellow lorry slow, nowhere to go."

"But oh that magic feeling, nowhere to go."
*Suddenly Faul is singing a different tune. A happier one!
"One sweet dream, pick up the bags, get in the limousine."

"Soon we'll be away from here, step on the gas and wipe that tear away." *singular tear, not "tears"; as you would address another individual as in "Wipe Your tears away, Darling". I believe it's symbolic of his relatively recent experiences when he may have been nearly destitute! *

"One sweet dream, came true, today."

*Is Faul singing this song to himself? Is he consoling himself in this song? He's happy. Has he found his dream job playing the role of Paul!

Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band:

This title track makes reference to "Sgt" 9 times; if you include the title! *could that mean something? Or could it merely be self-referential-overkill?

Lovely Rita: "In a cap she looked much older, and the bag across her shoulder; made her look a little like a Military man."

A Day In The Life: "I saw a film today oh boy.
The English Army had just won the War."

She Came In Through The Bathroom Window:

"She came in through the bathroom window". "Protected by a silver spoon." =The protection offered by the Beatles; fame; wealth etc.?

"And so I Quit the Police Department" = selective memory? Was Faul fired? Or did he actually quit?

"And got myself a steady job " With the Beatles; as Paul's replacement?

"She could steal but she could not rob." Temporary contract? For the duration of the Beatles tunure? If so, did he honour that contract; or break it?

Bit's and pieces of a puzzle to be sure. The answers are in there, somewhere!

[LarryC]

I would just like to chime in a bit on the subject of Paul's faulty memory as stated in earlier posts on this thread. I'm not in any way speaking out against what anyone might believe, just tossing out some food for thought.

Imagine you have been a professional musician for the better part of 50 years of your life...ok, over 40 anyways, and you've spent thousands of hours in the recording studio with the same guys for at least a decade, and that decade was 30 something years ago. The number of times songs were played in the variety of arrangements until they finally were hashed out into the arrangements we all finally got to hear, the various lads playing various parts on different instruments on the different songs, etc...then you have a very successful solo career spanning at least another decade with a band which had at least 4 lineups...I would have to think that after all of that, details would become confusled. Then you complicate it all by introducing the various forms of utopia the boys delved into...the marijuana, the LSD, ect. I think it would be sort of silly to fault someone's lack of memory of a particular event, like how the song Help! came about, way back then.

On the Anthology both Paul and George could not remember who was playing the Bass on a particular song when they were reflecting in the studio with George Martin. George couldn't remember if it was himself or John playing the Bass on a particular song which Paul was playing on the piano...the title of which escapes me right now, but there was a moment of discussion about it between Paul and George. Eventually, I think, George Martin offered that he 'thought' that it was John playing the Bass...even Sir George didn't remember.

So basically what I'm saying is those guys had a lot of miles on them, a tremendous number of experiences and events, and I think we should give them a break on their lack of instant recall. When we are young our minds are sharp...hell I can't remember what I did last week anymore...hahaha. ;D

[jonna]

i agree with that to a certain extent Larry, no-one can be expected to remember everything but when its stories that they have been telling over and over to different reporters for years you tend to remember those things. the only one that seems to change details a lot is Paul.

[LarryC]

LOL yes Jonna, and Paul has continued to smoke his doobies throughout the years and, as far as anyone knows, he's still smoking them today so that may have a play in it as well...hahaha. That evil weed does evil things to the mind...or so I'm told...I can't remember. ;D