PAUL WAS ALIVE...............

[fabboy]

back in 1984 at least. I'm almost positive that THIS is JPM1. This is how Paul was in the early days. His 'cheekiness', his humor, his accent, which Faul has never been able to truly replicate, his quick wit, and overall charm. Faul has none of this. Faul has a low key, dry wit. Fauls face is longer. This is Paul at 42, still with that early beatle 'cuteness' and delivery that he had in those early films and interviews. It's him. He slipped back in to talk about HIS newest pet project at the time>Give my regards to Broadstreet. He pulled a fast one and so did the rest of the Beatles. Notice the slight drop down on his left eye. Just like the original JPM. Can't duplicate that in Surgery. His face is much more round as well. In my opinion, Paul wrote all of Fauls music, and sang most of it>even the Beatles stuff that was after revolver. That's him singing and playing bass. Faul could NEVER WRITE the CALIBUR OF THOSE PARTICULAR SONGS upon arrival. Paul was a world class song writer. John still wrote his, and Paul kept churning out his, and they never missed a beat.

2 separate sets of clues>the death clues which include lyrics and many pics, but the 2nd set of clues>the ones that tell us that he left the Beatles, but never really died. :She (he's) leaving home, bye bye. It's all about him. There are way too many to get into right now. 4 or 5 magicians. Remember that line in MMT inside album booklet. the magicians>one who make the magic> the ones who create. In my heart of hearts, i'm glad that he was alive and well back then. Who knows where he is today though. If there are any of you who agree with me, are there any more recent pics and/or Videos with the real JPM in them?? Would love to see those links. And i would love to hear what you think. I'm a newbie here but i have LOTS more im going to share with you including pics (still frames) that i took off my TV screen from the LET IT BE movie that will blow your mind!!!!!! Got about 60-80 amazing shots! Stay tuned! Thanks for reading. Let's get a good dialogue going here. So glad to be here!

[malevans]

I don't see any difference and it is impossible Paul was alive. Why would they go for that?

[fabboy]

I guess that some eyes see different things than others. And who are "they", that you refer to? I like the different opinions though. It makes for stimulating dialogue. It's all good.

[fabboy]

anyone want to talk about this?

[spiritchaser21]

I would like to start off by saying that I am very firmly in the 'Dead Since '66' group, and while I have been lurking on this site, as well as looking at other sites dealing with this issue, I have yet found any evidence that really makes me think otherwise. However, having stated that, I am open to being proved wrong, or being shown different ways of thinking.
Looking at the video posted above, I can definitely see your point. The Paul who appears in that video is a better Paul then some. I understand that the general point of view regarding the replacement is that after the period of fluctuation around 1966-1967, there is a consistent person playing the 'role' of Paul. My belief on this is that throughout the span of time going from 1967- now, there are a series of people playing this role, some better than others.
I try to avoid the replacement Paul McCartney in general, as there is something about him that bothers me (many somethings actually). However, I have noticed that his general look varies widely throughout the years.
I'm not talking about him getting a new haircut, or even a little maintenance plastic surgery over the years. I'm talking about him looking completely different from one interview to another. Sure, if you believe that JPM is still alive, and stepping in at times, that helps to explain the differences, but I feel that theory doesn't make much sense. I feel like if you're going to go through all of the expense and hassle of finding someone who is compatible musically and physically, pay for plastic surgery expenses, etc, that wouldn't happen just because someone wants a break. Bands go on hiatus all of the time. Heck, at the same time as all of this happened, the Beatles began just working in the studio, and not touring. That would have been a perfect time for JPM to have said 'hey, lets take a couple months off', and for it to not have been a huge deal.
The other thing about that video that makes me think that he is just another replacement is that while he does a better job at the facial expressions, they still just seem off to me. One of the problems with JPM, is that he was a pretty twitchy dude. By that I mean that he had a lot of very distinctive facial expressions. They are pretty easy to replicate, but I've found that they don't appear very natural.

This is just my humble opinion, and I am more than welcome to listen to varying points regarding this issue. I love being exposed to different points of view that make me see the world a little bit differently. And please excuse me if this post is long winded and rambling. I have a horrible habit of getting caught up in my thoughts and forgetting where I started, and where I was heading.

[fabboy]

thanks for the response spiritchaser. It was a good one. You made some good points but in the end, we'll just agree to disagree. To me, in the long run, it would make more sense to NOT throw in a bunch of lookalikes, in order for the masses to get used to ONE replacement look. And forget about making someones left eye sag through surgery. They cannot do that. And if you look close, not only does his left eye sag a bit, but the overall shape of that eye is thinner, and not as rounded as his right eye, just like the original JPM. I think the proof is in the details. I just think that Paul wanted to get back into the game for a while, publicly speaking that is. But maybe i'll be proved wrong one day. who knows. That's why this particular site is so cool! You can do that here>disagree> and not worry about getting your head 'cut off'. We live in very strange times.

[privyprincess]

This is interesting. I agree with you, OP. The Paul in this particular video does seem to be more authentic in his looks and actions than other Pauls.

Someone said before to me, that it is very easy for TPTB to alter the face of someone if they really want to. You have to look at the ears. They are harder to replicate, oddly enough.

But you may be on to something here. And the reason for this more accurate Paul is even given in the video. The announcer went to school with the real Paul, so of course they needed a more convincing double for him to interview (or maybe the real one, who knows)

[fabboy]

It just has all the 'ear'marks of being the real Paul>ha ha. I even looked closely at his nose in this video and i compared it to old stills of Paul before 1967 and they seem to have the same exact features. A very curvy outer nostril. I really think it's him.

[eyesbleed]

Welcome fabboy. Yes, JPM is alive in my opinion. Somewhere on the forum there's a good thread started by Red Lion a while back with some good post 67 "JPM" pics & observations. I see what you mean about the vid you posted, but I'm not so sure that's JPM. I think Ramone got it about right over in the Broadstreet thread. One more thing I gotta disagree with, JPM did not write all of the music released by the "McCartney" brand.
There is some JPM work in the mix.... Ram, most of Wings, The Fireman, Chaos & Creation. Bill is also a very good artist in his own right & some releases represent his own work. And I'm sure there's some ghost writers involved along the way also.
There's also a good thread somewhere in here where this is discussed at length. Sorry I can't post links to these threads for ya.
The search function on this forum kinda sux.

[Doc]

Jan 1, 2011 10:50:13 GMT -5 eyesbleed said:

Welcome fabboy. Yes, JPM is alive in my opinion. Somewhere on the forum there's a good thread started by Red Lion a while back with some good post 67 "JPM" pics & observations. I see what you mean about the vid you posted, but I'm not so sure that's JPM. I think Ramone got it about right over in the Broadstreet thread. One more thing I gotta disagree with, JPM did not write all of the music released by the "McCartney" brand.
There is some JPM work in the mix.... Ram, most of Wings, The Fireman, Chaos & Creation. Bill is also a very good artist in his own right & some releases represent his own work. And I'm sure there's some ghost writers involved along the way also.
There's also a good thread somewhere in here where this is discussed at length. Sorry I can't post links to these threads for ya.
The search function on this forum kinda sux.

Just want to chime in with the idea I have that the first Paul is very possibly still alive. There are vocal phrases in Sir Paul's songs that, to me, sound exactly like him. Also, there a some images made post 1966 that ring true for James Paul, IMO.
So, it was a sort of retirement/hermitage that James Paul sought in the creating of a very near double. Near, but not exact, as, well, I think that no double for anyone could ever be exact; but, as exact as was scientifically possible. I think at times he has wished to "come out" into the light but that can never be as these quasi "witness protect" outfits don't do it that way. (Though it's not a US witness protect situation.) But I suspect that Bill and he have worked out clever, safe occasional "outlets" for this kind of wish on JPM's part. I am sure JPM is happier to not be in the public eye. Some people are naturally more private than others......

And the search function on this forum can be rather dicey, yes. But, if something is that old, forget it.

[JoJo]

Jan 1, 2011 10:50:13 GMT -5 eyesbleed said:

Somewhere on the forum there's a good thread started by Red Lion a while back with some good post 67 "JPM" pics & observations.

Sorry I can't post links to these threads for ya.
The search function on this forum kinda sux.

Difficult to find, but not impossible:

invanddis.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=pidpix&thread=5303&page=1

[65if2007]

I have never known what to make of any of this. I had just about lost interest in the subject when the "Wired: Italia" article with the two biometrics experts came out.

Some observations:

1) 0:49 - 0:51. One reviewer is quoted as saying, "You can't revive a corpse." Ha ha.
2) At around 1:30 or so, the individual being interviewed refers to McCartney in the 3rd person, as he has so often done over the years.
3) I have some difficulty with the idea that Paul McCartney is played at any given time by one of several people and that his wife and kids just go along with that.
4) In 1980, doesn't the individual who sings and otherwise choreographs "Coming Up" do a pretty good job of impersonating a young JPM?; and
5) The subject of this 1984 interview has an unattached left earlobe. Isn't that supposed to be a "Faulish" trait?

[fabboy]

Great posts by all of you guys on this one. I'm still fairly positive that Paul's musical stamp was all over the albums from Pepper on to Let it be, along with his vocals to. I don't think he would give that up so easily right away. Faul had to wait and blend in over time. Now Faul does have a very good voice in my opinion. But i can hear the tonal differences. Listen to Lady Madonna or hey jude just to name a few. I also believe that JPM wrote the GOOD Wings material and i believe that Faul, after studying under JPM for many years, developed his own style with a 'little help from his friends' and ended up writing his own material later on. I still think that JPM was always around if he ever needed him but after a while, a musician wants to step away from his teacher and go out on his own, so to speak. Of course all of this under strict secrecy. I think that's kind of human nature to. People usually want to leave their own stamp on things and i do believe that Faul did have some ghost writers, but im fairly certain that would be with Wings and onto his solo work. Although i think that JPM has written some of Faul's solo material as well. Good stuff guys!

[fabboy]

It's like you just can't say, "Hey new 'Paul', we need you to immediately write FIXING A HOLE, SHE'S LEAVING HOME, WHEN I'M 64, LOVELY RITA, and how about Hello goodbye, penny lane, magical mystery tour, your mother should know, the fool on the hill, or are there any good ghost writers we can immediately conjure up>ha ha. Just having some fun here guys. If Faul had those writing skills, he would have been famous much earlier in my humble opinion.
One more thing i just noticed>take out your record of MMT and look at the back and to the upper right area. I see two figures; one in a black over coat >Paul? Looking close up at that, it appears that the person is looking downward and a bit somber with his hands in his pocket. And then immediately to the right you see a whitish face with what looks like to be large 'bug eyes'. Then if you look at the middle right, you see 3 men under a palm tree>any possible significance there. UPDATE; I will be starting a new thread soon on this with MANY interesting pics from this album. Stay tuned!

[JoJo]

fabboy, before you go to a lot of trouble scanning, I have plenty of MMT stuff:

jojoplace.org/Shoebox/MMT_EP/

jojoplace.org/Shoebox/MMT_Booklet/

(feel free to use if you like)

[fabboy]

Guys, If you have GIVE MY REGARDS TO BROADSTREET, go to the scene near the end where Faul walks into that 'old justice' bar and right away, LOOK AT ALL THE WINDOW PAYNES ON THE RIGHT SIDE and see the faces looking in on you. There is one payne that has what it appears to be a full body figure. The rest i see are faces. Also, do you see the big BLACK APPLE AT THE TOP RIGHT with what appears to be 2 eyes staring in at us right above it? THEY NEVER STOPPED PUTTING CLUES INTO THEIR WORK! That movie is chalk full of clues. It's in the writing and in many visuals. I can see JPM hand behind this one. A lot of it is about him in my opinion. Cheers.
And i've got close up shots of MMT that will blow your minds, but i will start a new thread for that one along with what i think some of them mean. They used the highestn photographic technology of that day to give us what i have photographed.
COMING SOON! GOT A FEW MORE TO TAKE.

Also, near the end of that scene upstairs with the old man, he says to Faul, "THE LONGER YOU LOOK" , and he's looking right at Faul when he says it! >Longer face, possibly? Faul has a LONGER face than JPM. Or maybe he meant, the longer you look, the more the truth becomes apparent.

And last line>Faul says to the old man, "I've got to be off", and he replies, "You've been off for years">then immediately, Faul gives him a little look that is very telling>like they know exactly what each other meant. A little>YOU GOT ME! YOU'VE BEEN OFF FOR YEARS translates into>you haven't been yourself in years>You havent been Billy for years. That's when Faul gave him that look, like, IT'S UNDERSTOOD type of look. That's a very telling scene. Definitely worth checking out. I had to play it back a few times to catch every word and look. And one more thing>on that 'FACES' scene in the bar downstairs, remember that you have to PAUSE the playback and play it back moment by moment. There you will see many changing faces from within those small windows on the right side. Each payne has a different face. Cool stuff!! JPM was brilliant!

[Paul Bearer]

IMO it is NOT JPM. The nose is just wrong, it is too pointed.

As regards JPM's muscial influence throughout the latter Beatles era, JPM left some unpublished works. Also, John Lennon knew how to imitate JPM's style. for instance, "I Will" was written by John and given to Faul.

Elton John helped with some of Faul's earlier solo albums unitl he had had a gutsful of not being able to take credit for it. Faul's work is inconsistent because of different ghost writers.

[B]

Paul Bearer wrote:
IMO it is NOT JPM. The nose is just wrong, it is too pointed.

I agree.
I had waited 'til now to watch this, as the motel computer had no sound and a limited (outdated)
version of YouTube playability, so I really couldn't evaluate the video, which even, at best,
is a bit blurry in both sound and picture.
The voice and gestures are Faul's all the way, though for one split second his mouth does
a Paul expression really well, I have to say.

Sorry, but I say it's Faul all the way.
I haven't seen any evidence that convinces me that Paul ever appeared publicly after 1966.

[fabboy]

Hey that's cool. I just see the image differently. I don't see Faul's long face at all. For all we know, Original Paul could have had a nose job somewhere along the way. Maybe if he got into that car accident , and his face needed reconstructive surgery, that could have been the result of it. But i honestly i don't see Faul's mannerisms at all in this interview. I see 'cheeky' enthusiastic early Paul mannerisms here. And if Paul did live and was replaced, then it wouldnt be too difficult to put him 'in' every now and again. That's the beauty of it here, we're all entitled to our own opinion, and we all leave at the end of the day respecting one anothers opinion, right or wrong. As far as ghost writers for later Beatle Paul material, i don't believe we can prove that. And i know that the beatles put out music fairly quick, but we can't say for sure how much backlog of material original Paul had. I believe his voice is all over Sgt. Peppers. It just sounds like him to me. And if that is true, then game on. The search continues!

I don't know, i guess it's kind of sad to think how one man from the biggest band in the world could be replaced, and no one ever knew. All the lies and the cover ups since. It's very sad. GIMME SOME TRUTH.

[ramone]

'' i guess it's kind of sad to think how one man from the biggest band in the world could be replaced, and no one ever knew.''
That's the whole thing of it really. The mindblower.

It would be still be something even if it was a group that was little well known.
People might wonder why certain ones have an interest in this (PID/PWR).
The fact that this was THE biggest band and and they pulled this off is
the kicker.
Unless one of us was there at the conception and carrying out part,
at some point all (or many here) experienced a revelation that something was not quite right around that '66 - '67 period.

On one hand you could say it's sad, on the other intriguing.
It'd be more sad in the context of a death.
I prefer to think of PWR.
-and that he's alive and well and still writing and playing that amazing bass-
for his own enjoyment, possibly for others.
He could be reading this for all we know.
Send a shout if you are!

There's nothing I've seen of the bass playing from our present guy live on stage
that convinces me this is the bass playing as done by JPM back in the day live.
(studio is a little harder - JPM had his style but other contributors such as Bill,
John, George, Klaus Voorman, etc are possibilities)

[fabboy]

Nice thoughts Ramone. Very true on the last paragraph!

[FP]

Jan 20, 2011 11:04:39 GMT -5 ramone said:

There's nothing I've seen of the bass playing from our present guy live on stage
that convinces me this is the bass playing as done by JPM back in the day live.

What do you think is different?

[ramone]

I wasn't saying Bill today isn't good by any means.
Keep in mind though he's been doing this for decades and decades.
Longer than JPM was old in this vid.




You need good speakers/headphones to really hear the bass here, but what he's doing is amazing - and that's just playing.
Throw singing harmonies on top of that. Not easy to play bass like this in the first place - now add singing into it.
Listen to it thru a few times. It's almost studio the bass work.

Unless I've missed it, I don't think Bill is doing stuff like this.
Not this good.
JPM could've just changed more or less like the chords are doing- I guess every 4 beats and keep it simple (because of being live) - but no, in between changes he's running notes up and down and all over -
picking and throwing in harmonics of sorts - just really enjoyable to listen to.

Bill seems to keep things a little more simple. Maybe playing and sticking to the root more.
If Bill's pulling off stuff like nowhere man I'd love to see a vid of it.
It'd be fun to see.
(but as said - many years playing)

[FP]

Jan 21, 2011 23:29:01 GMT -5 ramone said:

I wasn't saying Bill today isn't good by any means.
Keep in mind though he's been doing this for decades and decades.
Longer than JPM was old in this vid.




You need good speakers/headphones to really hear the bass here, but what he's doing is amazing - and that's just playing.
Throw singing harmonies on top of that. Not easy to play bass like this in the first place - now add singing into it.
Listen to it thru a few times. It's almost studio the bass work.

Unless I've missed it, I don't think Bill is doing stuff like this.
Not this good.
JPM could've just changed more or less like the chords are doing- I guess every 4 beats and keep it simple (because of being live) - but no, in between changes he's running notes up and down and all over -
picking and throwing in harmonics of sorts - just really enjoyable to listen to.

Bill seems to keep things a little more simple. Maybe playing and sticking to the root more.
If Bill's pulling off stuff like nowhere man I'd love to see a vid of it.
It'd be fun to see.
(but as said - many years playing)

Yeah, I know the Nowhere Man bass part. It's a great example.

Post '66 bass parts during the Beatles were just as good, though he doesn't do stuff like Hey Bulldog or Lovely Rita live. All My Loving has a good walking bass, though I don't think he did that live again until recently.

Rockshow isn't bad (2:20ish is a good spot to look at the hands):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfKugneK5ao

And Don't Let Me on the roof is pretty good too.

In addition to that is the Blackbird vid from 1968:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uqGCqMYaHQ

If you can finger pick that while singing, you can play Nowhere Man while singing too. His overall musicianship (bass, guitar, paino, even drums) is pretty darn good for someone who hasn't had formal training. If Paul was replaced in '66, the "imposter" could had gotten away with playing nothing but the root of chords on bass for the rest of his career and probably no one would care. But "Bill" clearly has instrumental (+ vocal) talent that goes way beyond what it had to be. I can also go on for hours about his songwriting (Doc will back me up too) but that's another discussion.

[Doc]

Jan 22, 2011 23:55:19 GMT -5 FP said:

Jan 21, 2011 23:29:01 GMT -5 ramone said:

I wasn't saying Bill today isn't good by any means.
Keep in mind though he's been doing this for decades and decades.
Longer than JPM was old in this vid.




You need good speakers/headphones to really hear the bass here, but what he's doing is amazing - and that's just playing.
Throw singing harmonies on top of that. Not easy to play bass like this in the first place - now add singing into it.
Listen to it thru a few times. It's almost studio the bass work.

Unless I've missed it, I don't think Bill is doing stuff like this.
Not this good.
JPM could've just changed more or less like the chords are doing- I guess every 4 beats and keep it simple (because of being live) - but no, in between changes he's running notes up and down and all over -
picking and throwing in harmonics of sorts - just really enjoyable to listen to.

Bill seems to keep things a little more simple. Maybe playing and sticking to the root more.
If Bill's pulling off stuff like nowhere man I'd love to see a vid of it.
It'd be fun to see.
(but as said - many years playing)

Yeah, I know the Nowhere Man bass part. It's a great example.

Post '66 bass parts during the Beatles were just as good, though he doesn't do stuff like Hey Bulldog or Lovely Rita live. All My Loving has a good walking bass, though I don't think he did that live again until recently.

Rockshow isn't bad (2:20ish is a good spot to look at the hands):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfKugneK5ao

And Don't Let Me on the roof is pretty good too.

In addition to that is the Blackbird vid from 1968:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uqGCqMYaHQ

If you can finger pick that while singing, you can play Nowhere Man while singing too. His overall musicianship (bass, guitar, paino, even drums) is pretty darn good for someone who hasn't had formal training. If Paul was replaced in '66, the "imposter" could had gotten away with playing nothing but the root of chords on bass for the rest of his career and probably no one would care. But "Bill" clearly has instrumental (+ vocal) talent that goes way beyond what it had to be. I can also go on for hours about his songwriting (Doc will back me up too) but that's another discussion.

I do back you up: Absolutely. Bill's talents are sizeable and varied; singing, playing, and writing; anyone looking to make weak comparisons along these lines is inaccurate. Sir Paul has written and performed equally great songs, equally popular songs since the beginning of his involvement. Those discussions have appeared here sometimes; I think time and listening have shown us all that both Paul and William have manifested superior musical abilities.