Bill Shepherd - UK Session Musician

[JoJo]

Funny thing about Gary Lewis, Sounds like their music was not exactly them...sorta...From Wiki:

The Playboys were almost irrelevant on the record, as they weren’t allowed to play their instruments and their voices were used sparingly. Garrett wanted a hit, so he insisted on using trusted studio musicians. The studio musicians included Tommy Allsup on guitar, Leon Russell on keyboards, and Hal Blaine on drums. To help fill out what he felt to be Lewis’s vocal shortcomings, Garrett brought in a session singer, Ron Hicklin. Hicklin did the basic vocal track; then Garrett added Gary’s voice, overdubbed him a second time, added some of the Playboys, and then added more of Hicklin. "When I got through, he sounded like Mario Lanza" Garrett commented.

Hey another "Playboy" group was "John Fred and his Playboy Band". Remember Judy in Disguise? Or was that Lucy? (in disguise)

[fourthousandholes]

From the same article:

"...in January 1965. Almost immediately, their song "This Diamond Ring" shot to the top and hit #1 on the pop charts,
passing The Beatles, Frank Sinatra and Elvis Presley along the way."

[fourthousandholes]

Hey now! Just who might this "Geoff Love" who did the accompaniment for the Peter and Gordon
hit "A World Without Love" be?
see here: beatleshelp.topcities.com/collabo/peter2.html

It's more than interesting that Mr. Love was producing albums of the same ilk as Bill Sheppard, now isn't it?



Especially since "A World Without Love" is a Lennon and McCartney tune.
He also did the accompaniment for the P&G song "I Don't Want To See You Again":
beatleshelp.topcities.com/collabo/peter5.html
another Lennon and McCartney song:

I DON'T WANT TO SEE YOU AGAIN
(J. Lennon - P. McCartney)

hear it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPqfc0TXsgE

I hear that love is planned (destiny)
How can I understand
When someone says to me
I don't want to see you again

Why do I cry at night
Something wrong could be right
I hear you say to me
I don't want to see you again

As you turned your back on me
You hid the light of day
I didn't have to play
at being broken hearted

I know that later on
After love's been and gone
I'll still hear someone say
I don't want to see you again

As you turned your back on me
You hid the light of day
I didn't have to play
at being broken hearted

I hear that love is planned
How can I understand
When someone says to me
I don't want to see you again
I don't want to see you again
I don't want to see you again

Now if the inspiration for this song was Jane Asher, would Paul have let her brother sing it?
Well...maybe! ;D But I'm inclined to think the words "I don't want to see you again" may have come
from someone else; someone who, say, was trying to be in a forced marraige that she hoped
would work if that pesky Paul would just stay away!
But that's neither here nor there to who this "LOVE" guy is. This "LOVE" guy....

btw, this is a really interesting listing of "McCartney" collaborations:
beatleshelp.topcities.com/collabo/collabo.html

[JoJo]

This one is actually pretty good, I found it in the Beatles section of an excellent used vinyl store in Boston:

beatleshelp.topcities.com/collabo/pas.html

Bit of an odd one, the disk comes with no label, you get the stickers and do it yourself. I ripped it if anyone's interested..

[fourthousandholes]

I wouldn't mind hearing it, but don't go to a lot of trouble.
(I may already have it. )

Now here's a bit more about Geoff Love. Seems he's not Bill Sheppard after all. (Or is he? )

www.lampmusic.co.uk/influences/love_geoff.htm

[secondlifer]

I DON'T WANT TO SEE YOU AGAIN
(J. Lennon - P. McCartney)

hear it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPqfc0TXsgE

I hear that love is planned (destiny)
How can I understand
When someone says to me
I don't want to see you again

Why do I cry at night
Something wrong could be right
I hear you say to me
I don't want to see you again

As you turned your back on me
You hid the light of day
I didn't have to play
at being broken hearted

I know that later on
After love's been and gone
I'll still hear someone say
I don't want to see you again

As you turned your back on me
You hid the light of day
I didn't have to play
at being broken hearted

I hear that love is planned
How can I understand
When someone says to me
I don't want to see you again
I don't want to see you again
I don't want to see you again

Now if the inspiration for this song was Jane Asher, would Paul have let her brother sing it?
Well...maybe! ;D But I'm inclined to think the words "I don't want to see you again" may have come
from someone else; someone who, say, was trying to be in a forced marraige that she hoped
would work if that pesky Paul would just stay away!
But that's neither here nor there to who this "LOVE" guy is. This "LOVE" guy....

ever think maybe it was "donated" on Paul's behalf by Ms Jane? She may have come across it and asked what it was only to get the standard guy answer " oh nothing". I doubt she or Sylvie were the inspiration for this song.

I got the impression that this song was not actually meant to be performed publicly. seems more like Paul working out his feelings about a previous relationship that for whatever reason ended suddenly and on a bad note and there is no way of going back and making things right. the chorus could be those last words of a breakup or an argument.

I had an experience where I had a big fight with my girlfriend and I said those exact same words. She died shortly thereafter in a ferry accident. decades later i still blame myself for making a careless wish that was granted by a cruel fate.

Im probably reading way too much into this just because it is the exact same words, but i do know that many artists, myself included, often write, paint, draw, build or compose things to try to work out feelings that are overwhelming without the slightest intention of sharing with anyone else. sometimes it helps. most of the time it just takes the edge off the pain so you can get through the next few hours of life.

[fourthousandholes]

Secondlifer wrote:
"I had an experience where I had a big fight with my girlfriend and I said those
exact same words. She died shortly thereafter in a ferry accident.
decades later i still blame myself for making a careless wish that was granted by a cruel fate."


Listen again, and tell me what this song is really all about.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDIG2C9Ri9E
Ferry Cross The Mersey
Gerry and The Pacemakers
(Gerry Marsden)

Life goes on day after day
Hearts torn in every way[/b][/i]

So ferry 'cross the Mersey
'cause this land's the place I love
and here I'll stay

People they rush everywhere
Each with their own secret care

So ferry 'cross the Mersey
and always take me there
The place I love

People around every corner
They seem to smile and say
We don't care what your name is boy
We'll never turn you away

So I'll continue to say
Here I always will stay

So ferry 'cross the Mersey
'cause this land's the place I love
and here I'll stay
and here I'll stay
Here I'll stay
-----------------------------

And don't let the sun catch you crying.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAV3XG673Rk

[mommybird]

4000, both of those songs have always touched me deeply. They are both sung in a very heartfelt manner.

DON'T LET THE SUN CATCH YOU CRYING

Don't let the sun catch you cryin'

The night's the time for all your tears

Your heart may be broken tonight

But tomorrow in the morning light

Don't let the sun catch you cryin'



The night-time shadows disappear

And with them go all your tears

For the morning will bring joy

For every girl and boy

So don't let the sun catch you cryin'



We know that cryin's not a bad thing

But stop your cryin' when the birds sing



It may be hard to discover

That you've been left for another

But don't forget that love's a game

And it can always come again

Oh don't let the sun catch you cryin'

Don't let the sun catch you cryin', oh no

Oh, oh, oh

That's a very sad song. However, I think that the lyrics are too generic to be attributed to any one person's woes.

More on " I Don't Want to See You Again ":

Biography
In June 1964, Peter & Gordon became the very first British Invasion act after the Beatles to take the number one spot on the American charts with "A World Without Love." That hit, and their subsequent successes, were due as much or more to their important connections as to their talent. Peter Asher was the older brother of Jane Asher, Paul McCartney's girlfriend for much of the 1960s. This no doubt gave Asher and Gordon Waller access to Lennon-McCartney compositions that were unrecorded by the Beatles, such as "A World Without Love" and three of their other biggest hits, "Nobody I Know," "I Don't Want to See You Again," and "Woman" (the last of which was written by McCartney under a pseudonym). But Peter & Gordon were significant talents in their own right, a sort of Everly Brothers-styled duo for the British Invasion that faintly prefigured the folk-rock of the mid-'60s. In fact, when Gene Clark first approached Jim McGuinn in 1964 about working together in a group that would eventually evolve into the Byrds, he suggested that they could form a Peter & Gordon-styled act.

Asher and Waller had been singing together since their days at Westminster School for Boys, a private school in London. "A World Without Love" was their biggest and best hit, one that sounded very much like the Beatles' more pop-oriented originals. Their other two 1964 hits, "Nobody I Know" and "I Don't Want to See You Again," were pleasant but less distinguished. Sounding like McCartney-dominated Beatle rejects (which, in fact, they were), the production employed a softer, more acoustic feel than the hits by the Beatles and other early British Invasion guitar bands. "I Don't Want to See You Again" used strings, as would several of the duo's subsequent hits, which became increasingly middle-of-the-road in their pop orientation.

Some scattered folky B-sides showed that Asher and Waller may have been capable of developing into decent songwriters, but like many of the less talented British Invaders, their lack of songwriting acumen and ability to move with the times would eventually work against them. They did continue to hit the charts for a couple of years, with updates of the oldies "True Love Ways" (Buddy Holly) and "To Know You Is to Love You" (a variation of the Teddy Bears' "To Know Her Is to Love Her"). There was also a Top Ten cover of Del Shannon's "I Go to Pieces," and the brassy, McCartney-penned "Woman." The overtly cute and British novelty "Lady Godiva," though, became their last big hit in late 1966.

www.answers.com/topic/peter-gordon?cat=entertainment

Two things. According to this, " I Don't Want to See You Again was recorded in 1964. That predates Paul's breakup with Sylvie. She broke up with him sometime before May 1965, when she married Johnny Hallyday. I'm not saying that Paul wasn't devastated by that. However, the timing is off.
Secondly, I find it far from coincidence that the duos last big hit was late 1966. They had lost their muse when Paul died.

[secondlifer]

Some scattered folky B-sides showed that Asher and Waller may have been capable of developing into decent songwriters, but like many of the less talented British Invaders, their lack of songwriting acumen and ability to move with the times would eventually work against them. They did continue to hit the charts for a couple of years, with updates of the oldies "True Love Ways" (Buddy Holly) and "To Know You Is to Love You" (a variation of the Teddy Bears' "To Know Her Is to Love Her"). There was also a Top Ten cover of Del Shannon's "I Go to Pieces," and the brassy, McCartney-penned "Woman." The overtly cute and British novelty "Lady Godiva," though, became their last big hit in late 1966.

those folksy B-sides are acutually remnants of a style of music that was popular in Liverpool in the 50's and early 60's called Skiffle. a kind of blend irish and scot folk music flavored by american musicians that came over on Cunards to the main port city of england at the time, Liver-something. Skiffle was kind of a bridge between folk and rock and roll that evolved into Merseybeat.

[B]

Here's a bit of an update on this thread. tafultong found this article on a blog.
I don't think that what the author proposes is the real answer as to who Bill Shepherd was,
but it makes for an interesting read.

xdell.blogspot.com/2007/10/with-little-help-from-their-friends.html

Here's what the author wrote to me after reading this thread:

"X. Dell said...
Letter B, welcome to the X-Spot. I hope you've checked back for a response, for I appreciated your comment on this.

You're right. The entire thread is quite interesting, for a number of reasons. I was hoping that Gary Shepard could post or link to a photograph of his father, because it might have put at least one of these issues to rest. After all, to my eye the people presented to me in the photos identifying themselves as the Pepperpots look strikingly like people who were connected to the Beatles.

Assuming Gary's correct (and at this point, I'm not doubting him), then we still have the question of who wrote the Beatles' biography. We also have a curiousity in that this would make three different people named Bill Sheppard linked (either to or with) the Beatles: Gary's dad (through the PID rumor), the Beatle biographer, and the A&R guy at VeeJay records, the Beatles' first American label.

Lots of Billy Sheppards to choose from, I guess.

Don't know how you stand on the rumor, but I'm glad you stopped by. Thanks."
-------------------------------------------------

Hal Blaine reference in post below this one is in response to what JoJo wrote in Reply # 76. ;D

[iburiedpaul]

Hal Blaine played on a ton of records. In fact, Carol Kaye and Purdie had that discussion I witnessed in the studio it was about who played on the Monkees records, Purdie or Blaine. I know it's hard to believe, but it is very common to use a recording drummer because in order to make "hit records" you need a certain type of drum sound. There are "first call" guys, and then plenty of "second call" guys as well. Credit is given sometimes. It's not that important when the goal is to make a living (to work!)

Here's a little info on Blaine, fyi:

Blaine, who was born Harold Simon Belsky in 1929, became a professional drummer in 1948 and joined teen idol Tommy Sands' band in the late Fifties. He was the most in-demand session drummer in Los Angeles during the Sixties and early Seventies, and a list of musicians he played with reads like a who's who of popular music. In 1961, Blaine drummed on "Can't Help Falling in Love With You," one of Elvis Presley's most memorable sides, and he would play on Presley's film soundtracks throughout the Sixties. However, Blaine's best-known affiliation is with producer Phil Spector, where he served as the percussive backbone of the "Wrecking Crew" the nickname that younger studio hands on the L.A. scene bestowed on themselves after the rock-hating old-timers complained they were "wrecking the business." He was a key component of Spector's "Wall of Sound" production, which yielded such classic rock and roll hits as "Be My Baby," by the Ronettes, and "Da Doo Ron Ron," by the Crystals. Blaine also established a fruitful relationship with Beach Boys leader Brian Wilson, for whom he served as the first-call session drummer. Blaine appeared on innumerable Beach Boys hits, ranging from "Surfer Girl" to "Good Vibrations." He also drummed on countless recordings by the cream of West Coast pop musicians, including Jan and Dean, the Mamas and the Papas, the Byrds, Johnny Rivers, the Association, Sonny and Cher, the Grass Roots, and Gary Lewis and the Playboys. On the more "adult" side of the pop ledger, Blaine played drums on recordings by Frank Sinatra and Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass. By Blaine's own estimate, he performed on 35,000 recorded tracks over in a quarter century's worth of work. He published his memoirs, Hal Blaine and the Wrecking Crew, in 1990. In March of 2000 Hal Blaine was inducted into the 'Rock and Roll' Hall of Fame.

halblaine.com/bio.html

[guitargaz]

Hi - you are all still on this thread which surprises me - spell my Dad's name correctly - it is Bill Shepherd. Check out the Bee Gees biography where he has his own section in the index. I will scan some photos of me and my Dad and post them in the next few weeks if I can work out how to do that on this site (please help me on this).

Many of you are still on a wild goose chase as regards my Dad and the Beatles. There is no connection other than my Dad and Jimmy Fraser doing the exploitation albums of the Merseysound. The photos are models - not stand ins for Paul and co. - it was just a cheap album shot.

I will get some photos of my Dad online soon - he was 5'7" or 5'8" and nothing like Paul - this is quite amusing still. And the thread is desperate linking all these different Sheppards and Sheperds etc. - fertile imaginations or just a desperate lack of facts?

Anyway - thought I'd have a look-in to this site and surprised to see still some life on this thread. My Dad died in 1988 - not sure he'd want to be remembered for Billy Pepper and the Pepperpots !

Anyway - good luck with the latest threads - Viv Stanshall definitely did die (very sad to say) and is missed by many. Absolutely no replacement for Paul though - nice try on that one. Many knew him right to the end and he was not a Paul lookalike or part of a plot. Sorry.

Gary

[JoJo]

Help yourself and upload as explained here:

invanddis.proboards29.com/index.cgi?board=members1&action=display&thread=1165451493

Can't help with you the scanner, read the manual I guess..

[plastic paul]

guitargaz said:

Hi - you are all still on this thread which surprises me

Well until you bumped it, no-one had posted for 6 weeks and it probably was falling down the list of "active" threads, but thanks for bringing it back to the fore so we can continue the investigation!

;D

[fireman]

guitargaz said:

Hi - you are all still on this thread which surprises me - spell my Dad's name correctly - it is Bill Shepherd. Check out the Bee Gees biography where he has his own section in the index. I will scan some photos of me and my Dad and post them in the next few weeks if I can work out how to do that on this site (please help me on this).

Many of you are still on a wild goose chase as regards my Dad and the Beatles. There is no connection other than my Dad and Jimmy Fraser doing the exploitation albums of the Merseysound. The photos are models - not stand ins for Paul and co. - it was just a cheap album shot.

I will get some photos of my Dad online soon - he was 5'7" or 5'8" and nothing like Paul - this is quite amusing still. And the thread is desperate linking all these different Sheppards and Sheperds etc. - fertile imaginations or just a desperate lack of facts?

Anyway - thought I'd have a look-in to this site and surprised to see still some life on this thread. My Dad died in 1988 - not sure he'd want to be remembered for Billy Pepper and the Pepperpots !

Anyway - good luck with the latest threads - Viv Stanshall definitely did die (very sad to say) and is missed by many. Absolutely no replacement for Paul though - nice try on that one. Many knew him right to the end and he was not a Paul lookalike or part of a plot. Sorry.

Gary

Hi Gary, thanks for the info.

Would love to see those pictures.

Also, what are you views on PID/PWR? You've obviously read many of the threads...

(71 posts...guess you have been here...lol!)

[yellomattercustard]

Aren't they still believing that your Dad was indeed Paul's replacement on the other boards? I know of one board in particular - once they get on something, they're not getting off of it!

[TotalInformation]

More useful than photos of the guy would be scans (or audio?) of working and/or fiscal documents concerning the Pepperbot venture/s.

guitargaz said:

Hi - you are all still on this thread which surprises me - spell my Dad's name correctly - it is Bill Shepherd. Check out the Bee Gees biography where he has his own section in the index. I will scan some photos of me and my Dad and post them in the next few weeks if I can work out how to do that on this site (please help me on this).

Many of you are still on a wild goose chase as regards my Dad and the Beatles. There is no connection other than my Dad and Jimmy Fraser doing the exploitation albums of the Merseysound. The photos are models - not stand ins for Paul and co. - it was just a cheap album shot.

I will get some photos of my Dad online soon - he was 5'7" or 5'8" and nothing like Paul - this is quite amusing still. And the thread is desperate linking all these different Sheppards and Sheperds etc. - fertile imaginations or just a desperate lack of facts?

Anyway - thought I'd have a look-in to this site and surprised to see still some life on this thread. My Dad died in 1988 - not sure he'd want to be remembered for Billy Pepper and the Pepperpots !

Anyway - good luck with the latest threads - Viv Stanshall definitely did die (very sad to say) and is missed by many. Absolutely no replacement for Paul though - nice try on that one. Many knew him right to the end and he was not a Paul lookalike or part of a plot. Sorry.

Gary

[yourliver]

whoa whoa whoa

ok, Billy pepper and the pepperpots is an imitation Beatles band.
But it's not REALLY the Beatles.
Well, Sergeant Pepper's band isn't really the Beatles either.
And there is a guy in the Pepperpots photograph who looks a hell of a lot like Mal evans.
And wasnt it MAL who supposedly came up with the name Sergeant Pepper.
I don't know if it means Paul was replaced...but...I'd have to say....
I don't think Mal picked this name out of the blue.
I'd have to say this is a definite reference to the pepperpots.
Guitargaz says that they used models for the photos.
Perhaps Mal WAS in the photograph.

[eyesbleed]

guitargaz said:

. Absolutely no replacement for Paul though - nice try on that one. Many knew him right to the end and he was not a Paul lookalike or part of a plot. Sorry.

Gary

Granted, The Bee Gee's Bill Shepherd isn't the guy we're after, but JPM did indeed get himself replaced.... you are absolutely wrong on that one point.
Come on back & holler at us sometime.

[ramone]

yourliver said:

whoa whoa whoa

ok, Billy pepper and the pepperpots is an imitation Beatles band.
But it's not REALLY the Beatles.
Well, Sergeant Pepper's band isn't really the Beatles either.
And there is a guy in the Pepperpots photograph who looks a hell of a lot like Mal evans.
And wasnt it MAL who supposedly came up with the name Sergeant Pepper.
I don't know if it means Paul was replaced...but...I'd have to say....
I don't think Mal picked this name out of the blue.
I'd have to say this is a definite reference to the pepperpots.
Guitargaz says that they used models for the photos.
Perhaps Mal WAS in the photograph.

Yeah, it's pretty clear JPM went off the scene-the reasons debated.
Who picked what out of the blue is up for grabs too.
I'm not sure we can say what MAL was up to for certain
at any given time back then.

and welcome!

[razorramon]

Hi I'm sitting here with Brian Chalmers .... he totally laughed his socks off when I showed him the post describing him as 'extremely camp and ...... had connections with the mafia'.
I'll post more soon, and may post a photo or two.

[JoJo]

May 5, 2008 16:39:46 GMT -5 razorramon said:

Hi I'm sitting here with Brian Chalmers .... he totally laughed his socks off when I showed him the post describing him as 'extremely camp and ...... had connections with the mafia'.
I'll post more soon, and may post a photo or two.

That would be interesting thanks, and oh yes, welcome!

The Brian Chalmers post was so long ago, I forgot what it said, here is a refresher. (posted by Guitargaz)


There is no Beatles or Paul connection - although interestingly he worked with a character called Brian Chalmers who claimed to be a cousin of Paul and Mike (Paul's brother). There was some resemblance - although he was extremely camp and involved with producing an Italian singer called Little Tony, and apparently had connections with the mafia. And he was notorious for pushing the story of Paul being replaced after his death by Bill Campbell. I should not be surprised if he was the main instigator of the story - we heard it from him several times - and in those days it seemed plausible. It was supposed to have been a car crash - cover of Abbey Road 28IF and all that. Certainly there is an attraction to the theory that the man who wrote Yesterday could not be the same man who wrote The Frog Chorus.

Guess I'm curious to know if he talked about Paul being replaced back then.. Did he claim to be a McCartney cousin? (don't really care one way or the other if he's camp or with the Mafia..)

[thisone]

May 5, 2008 16:39:46 GMT -5 razorramon said:

Hi I'm sitting here with Brian Chalmers .... he totally laughed his socks off when I showed him the post describing him as 'extremely camp and ...... had connections with the mafia'.
I'll post more soon, and may post a photo or two.

Are they pink with little bunnies on? ;D

[guitargaz]

Hi Brian - if that was really you then the quote above was pretty accurate. Sorry but when I met you you were camp - and you did have mafia connections (or at least you said you did).

Brian Chalmers and my father Bill Shepherd were writing and working on a musical together based on the book "Kidnapped" by R.L Stevenson. Believe it or not the working title was "Snatch" - yep hard to believe but true. Brian was our first source of the Paul is Dead story that we heard - at least it was in our house and IBC studios when Brian was producing Little Tony.

I have had trouble getting picture to upload - can someone assist me. I have some of my Dad and me.

I just meant by the way that my Dad was not the replacement Paul - I of course don't know for sure if Paul was replaced although I think it unlikely.

As for the Pepperpots album shots, they weren't including my Dad or Jimmy Fraser so I assumed they were models - who else?

[JoJo]

Jun 17, 2008 16:23:00 GMT -5 guitargaz said:

I have had trouble getting picture to upload - can someone assist me. I have some of my Dad and me.

Hi G., just email it to the address in my profile and I'll post it for you, or try this:

invanddis.proboards29.com/index.cgi?board=members1&action=display&thread=2006