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Post by cherilyn7 on Mar 3, 2014 19:15:33 GMT -5
Thanks, cherilyn7. By the way, I'm not saying I have the answer when I put a new theory on the table --- most of what I do on the PID boards is brainstorming and saying, like what about this angle? Often I change my mind about my own theory! You mentioned Rory Storm and the Hurricanes. I think Rory and his mother were murdered because they knew too much. There was another member of that group who collapsed on stage and was never seen again (they said he died from acute appenicitus) and I have theorized that guy (I can't recall his name at the moment) became one of the Fauls. But anyway, Rory and his mum (she was his manager before he died) --- they both died the same day under very mysterious circumstances, as if they were about to whistleblow PID and blow the lid off it. At any rate, The Beatles, in the early days, were quite close friends with Rory (Alan Caldwell --- both Paul and George dated his sister at one point, I think her name was Mona). Your list of questions is good. Keep posting more questions. ************************************************************************************************************* Thankyou multiverser; it was Ty O'Brien who collapsed on stage in 1967 and died..... Rory's sister was called Iris; you are confusing the name Mona with Pete Best's mother. I, personally, think that it is strange that Brian Epstein did not choose to sign up Rory Storm & the Hurricanes to his "stable" of acts as they were reputed to be the biggest group on the Mersey scene and more popular than The Beatles (Silver Beetles in the Hamburg days); merely poaching their drummer when there was nothing wrong with the drummer the (Silver) Beatles already had. As others have mentioned elsewhere on NIR (Something about Ringo) it seems The Beatles took off for stardom after October 1962 when Pete Best was sacked and Richie Starkey took over. |
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Post by cherilyn7 on Mar 3, 2014 20:14:24 GMT -5
Maybe this thread should have a subtitle of "Your theory about what happened to John" johnlennonthighs.tumblr.com/post/14899474579/thegilly-john-cyn-ringo-and-mo-on-holidsee the above to compare John with his post 1967 persona; there is no comparison and I believe it is a different person by this time. Re what happened to Rory Storm he died in 1972 ten years after his drummer, Richie Starkey was poached by The Beatles just prior to stardom; and it seems Rory was quite a showman, quite apart from the colourful, flamboyant stage outfits and hairstyles; his party piece was apparently climbing up the pillars at concert halls. They had a season at Butlins holiday camp at Minehead (quite a plum booking in those days) but they were passed over for fame and fortune: maybe there was only room for one BIG group in the Epstein "stable"; the others he signed up, in any event, quickly fell by the wayside some not even having one hit record despite being "pushed" by NEMS, name changes in some cases and songs written by "Lennon/McCartney".....though the Beatles themselves were still recording many "covers"; they still had time to write songs for others.....by Spring 1964, inexplicably, Brian Epstein signed up Rory Storm and apparently recorded a song, produced by "Paul" with "Ringo" sitting in on drums.....it sank without trace. Was this some kind of belated payback for not signing him at the time the other Merseysound artistes came to prominence? It was all too little too late and, by now, the other Merseysound artistes were also fading into oblivion. Maybe you have an interesting theory there "multiverser", now in 1972, The B(F)eatles were no more and Faul was embarking on his solo career (this was also the year the Beatles Fan Club was officially wound up). Maybe Rory and his mother were ready to tell their story....? Was it all just a cover story, booking other groups/artistes but they were given little publicity after their initial chart success so that the Merseysound could be invented/introduced to the UK/world but The Beatles were the "chosen ones"; not, however, being able to keep up with it all, they had "doubles and stand ins" like Hollywood stars had. (High strangeness....Brian Epstein took Billy J Kramer to New York and picked his stage name out of the New York phone book and the name for his backing group "The Dakotas" was an inspired choice indeed!) The real question is, not just what happened to Paul, but what happened to all of them? |
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Post by multiverser on Mar 4, 2014 16:52:21 GMT -5
Thanks for clearing all that up. My memory does confuse names sometimes, so I should actually look stuff up before posting instead of being lazy. :-)
I think Brian didn't want anyone to upstage or overtake his Beatles, Rory's showmanship was a threat, so Brian may have submerged Rory's band by taking his drummer (probably at least a bit of a setback) or who knows, maybe Rory insulted Brian somehow. It was in Brian's (and The Beatles') best interests to block the success of other acts so the Fab Four would rise fast, dominate the scene and the charts. I think Brian definitely had a ruthless side to him.
The way the press described the 'double suicide' of Rory and his mum, it sounded like Cliff Notes for Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet. This wild tale is what the detectives said happened... They both do drugs together one night. Rory passes out and is motionless. Rory's mother wakes up and thinks Rory overdosed and is dead. She is so distraught, she kills herself. Rory wakes up and sees his mum committed suicide, so he kills himself.
First of all, the story is ridiculous. Secondly, it's straight out of Romeo and Juliet, except this is a guy and his mother. Thirdly, the end result is that Rory and his mum were silenced, so whatever they knew and perhaps were about to reveal went to their graves with them suddenly and surely.
Mal waved a BB gun at a cop. There's another ridiculous lie for ya!
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Post by cherilyn7 on Mar 4, 2014 18:23:06 GMT -5
Paul is interviewed in this months copy of Mojo magazine in which he claims he is 5'10" with hazel eyes and that he is/was as tall as John. The printed lies!  Greetings, in fact John's hair was not brown but AUBURN and it was always stated in fan magazines etc that the three were 5'11" tall except Ringo who was 5'8". Compare photos of John pre-1967 and there is really no comparison; I believe that was NOT John wearing the granny glasses, moustache, beard, long sideburns, bouffant hairdo, Afghan coat. Somehow John was spirited away and an imposter took over. The famous onstage stance he had with feet apart; this was not the same with the later imposter. A performer does not change their onstage persona and presence. It is a part of who they are. There was a noticeable change in performance style with the "Hello, Goodbye" video (a clue in the song title if ever there was one!) There is the mystery of Ralph Ellis too, of the Swinging Blue Jeans who left that group in 1966, never to be seen again (does anyone know of his whereabouts or activities post 1966?). |
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Post by cherilyn7 on Mar 4, 2014 19:09:40 GMT -5
I think Brian didn't want anyone to upstage or overtake his Beatles, Rory's showmanship was a threat, so Brian may have submerged Rory's band by taking his drummer (probably at least a bit of a setback) or who knows, maybe Rory insulted Brian somehow. It was in Brian's (and The Beatles') best interests to block the success of other acts so the Fab Four would rise fast, dominate the scene and the charts. I think Brian definitely had a ruthless side to him. The way the press described the 'double suicide' of Rory and his mum, it sounded like Cliff Notes for Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet. This wild tale is what the detectives said happened... They both do drugs together one night. Rory passes out and is motionless. Rory's mother wakes up and thinks Rory overdosed and is dead. She is so distraught, she kills herself. Rory wakes up and sees his mum committed suicide, so he kills himself. First of all, the story is ridiculous. Secondly, it's straight out of Romeo and Juliet, except this is a guy and his mother. Thirdly, the end result is that Rory and his mum were silenced, so whatever they knew and perhaps were about to reveal went to their graves with them suddenly and surely. Mal waved a BB gun at a cop. There's another ridiculous lie for ya! Of course Brian had a ruthless streak; he was a businessman, first and foremost and to be successful in business you have to be ruthless. However, he was also a gentleman and a kind, gentle person. Mal Evans and Neil Aspinall seemed to "appear out of nowhere" (according to vOOdOOgUrU) when Brian Epstein came on the scene. Were they handlers? Brian wanted to sign the Beatles up, not only as a business venture but, as a homosexual, he found them attractive, particularly John. They were going nowhere, until, not only being approached by Brian Epstein, but also, when Pete Best was ousted in favour of Richie Starkey who did not play on their first record, "Love Me Do", which was a minor hit but then at this point, the drummer was switched and they began their meteoric rise to stardom. To the toppermost of the poppermost, as John Lennon would promise them in the Hamburg days; but how could they think they would get anywhere playing in seedy clubs in the red light district of Hamburg? Rory Storm & the Hurricanes also did a short stint there when, oddly, Richie Starkey "sat in" for Pete Best on a few occasions.....getting his seat warm in readiness? It is as if it was being planned for "Ringo" to take over in due course "when the time was right"....Paul at this time looked rather effeminate and, in fact, there is photographic evidence to show that there was a different person playing the bass guitar in 1962 (see vOOdOOgUrU's excellent research). So there were several departures in 1962; the death of Stu Sutcliffe, Paul split up with Dot Rhone whom he had been dating since 1959 and Pete Best was sacked...could it be the original Paul also died in Hamburg? |
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Post by linus on Mar 4, 2014 19:17:02 GMT -5
The way the press described the 'double suicide' of Rory and his mum, it sounded like Cliff Notes for Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet. This wild tale is what the detectives said happened... They both do drugs together one night. Rory passes out and is motionless. Rory's mother wakes up and thinks Rory overdosed and is dead. She is so distraught, she kills herself. Rory wakes up and sees his mum committed suicide, so he kills himself. First of all, the story is ridiculous. Secondly, it's straight out of Romeo and Juliet, except this is a guy and his mother. Thirdly, the end result is that Rory and his mum were silenced, so whatever they knew and perhaps were about to reveal went to their graves with them suddenly and surely. Or Pyramus & Thisbe Where Paul as Pyramus commits suicide. "Now am I dead."And Lennon as Thisbe joins him in death. - One thing I don't see talked about much is the likelihood that Epstein bought 10,000 copies of the Please Please Me 45, to boost sales. www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/retail/1083523/brian-epstein-bought-thousands-of-copies-of-love-me-do-to-boost |
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Post by cherilyn7 on Mar 5, 2014 18:32:34 GMT -5
Just a slight correction Linus, it was "Love Me Do" not "Please, Please Me"...
That is ridiculous about Rory Storm and his mother; as if his mother would commit suicide on finding his body.....whatever he may have revealed, it is doubtful anyone would have believed him; notably he kept quiet throught the preceding ten years whilst The Beatles were in existence however.
What I find most interesting in that Billboard article is the statement that someone else played drums instead of Ringo on early recordings; coupled with the attempt to replace him with top session drummer, Jimmy Nichol in 1964 that was thwarted, in my opinion, as he was NOT a lookalike.
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Post by cherilyn7 on Mar 6, 2014 19:59:10 GMT -5
[quote source="/post/109284/thread" timestamp="1393969941" author=" multiverser" Where Paul as Pyramus commits suicide. "Now am I dead."And Lennon as Thisbe joins him in death. - O Does anyone really believe that John Lennon fell out with his friend Paul? That is weird to watch the Shakespeare skit; all done lightheartedly, but it has a ring of truth. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2014 7:35:03 GMT -5
Gentles, perchance you wonder at this show; But wonder on, till truth make all things plain. This man is Pyramus, if you would know; This beauteous lady Thisby is certain. Wall, that vile Wall which did these lovers sunder; And through Wall's chink, poor souls, they are content To whisper. At the which let no man wonder. This man, with lanthorn, dog, and bush of thorn, Presenteth Moonshine; This grisly beast, which Lion hight by name, Let Lion, Moonshine, Wall, and lovers twain At large discourse, while here they do remain.   lol  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2014 11:19:55 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2014 11:30:25 GMT -5
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Post by LOVELYRITA on Jun 19, 2014 14:09:28 GMT -5
In Hamburg, Germany, the Army of Beatles was created. Okay, many copies of the types that we have come to know as the Beatles. There have been variations on the John's, some with a straighter nose, one with a beak, etc....indeed an army was created...to serve to confuse and confound the masses. Starting with the non-threatening yeah, yeah, I want to hold your hand, and then developing into the subversive mind altering LSD, pot smoking hippie types in India...okay.. firing the minds of Charles Manson and his helter skelter swelter....eeeks...what have we gotten here?
Paul is dead, he was replaced and the Faul is alive....but rather worn out...indeed living an alternate life for over 40 years would age someone...eventually....
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Post by Doc on Aug 25, 2014 2:00:39 GMT -5
I listened to cuts from CHAOS AND CREATION on youtube, and although Paul McCartney may still be alive (we don't know at this point), I think those songs are very BILL, a 63-year old Bill. One example I'd quote is a line from "Anyway": "Only love is strong enough to take it on the chin." That doesn't sound like something Paul would have written at 23. Eyesbleed and Doc, can you explain why you think the songs are JPMish? There are certain harmonic twists in any of the songs on C&C that scream young McCartney. The is some nice Devilish melodic invention that seems very "early" McCartney. |
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Post by Huxleys_halo on Sept 10, 2014 17:49:48 GMT -5
Hi everyone, this is my first post here so forgive me if my theory has been made before, but after researching this for a couple of years, this is what I think. The Beatles were a fundamental part of s social engineering operation to corrupt the youth and eliminate traditional values (and I say this as a big Beatles fan!). They weren't just some ordinary lads from Liverpool who got lucky. They were carefully selected and groomed. Why them? I don't think their musical talent was particularly extraordinary and they'd had no formal musical training at all - Paul (JPM) even said himself they were not amazing musicians, simply "adequate". I'd go a bit further than that, but still, the essence of his comment was true - they were just fairly good pop musicians, not superhuman musical geniuses. So why the world domination? Obviously, anyone who knows anything about how the world works knows you don't get that famous unless the elite want you to. So they were clearly sponsored and endorsed, not "counter-culture" at all. The reason I think they were picked, rather than any other beat group around at the time, was the extraordinary amount of trauma in their young lives. John and Paul had both lost their mothers young, John barely knew his father, Ringo was from a broken home and had spent much of his childhood on the brink of death - only George was form an average, trauma-free home. Traumatised people are well known to be easier to manipulate and control (exactly why the elite uses "trauma brainwashing"), and so I think they recognised young men with such emotional wounds would be easier to push into corrupt things. But Paul rebelled. Although he was somewhat damaged by his mother's death, otherwise his childhood was very stable, and by all accounts when she did die, the family rallied around and handled it well. Paul was at heart a traditionalist, believed in family values and so forth. So when he was expected to go along with the agenda, to push drugs and so on to the youth, he refused. They realised Paul wouldn't "get with the program" and had to get rid of him. If it was a car crash, it was doubtless pre-arranged, aka Princess Diana. Then they brought the replacement in - Billy Campbell/Shears. Whatever his surname, his first is definitely Billy. Check out this video of Dana Carvey talking about meeting Paul McCsrtney and slipping up and calling him "Billy": www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a_T3GbtrvgWhat I'd like to know about Bill, though, is what happened to his previous life? He was about 30 when he joined the Beatles, so must have left a gaping hole in some community somewhere. What was his job, who were his family, his friends? Where did he go to school? All this info must exist somewhere, but apart from vague comments about him being a policeman in Ontario, I've not been able to find any information on that. Has anyone got any thoughts? |
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Post by linus on Sept 11, 2014 0:29:33 GMT -5
Context. reelchangefilms.com/portfolio/why-not-bobby/dana-carvey/The topic of this interview is Bobby Slayton. It is part of a documentary on the comedian Bobby Slayton, titled Why Not Bobby? reelchangefilms.com/portfolio/why-not-bobby/I emailed this question to the director of the documentary, J. Scholder: Is Why Not Bobby complete? If so, where can we see the entire documentary? I would love to see the whole film. I am curious as to who the Billy is that Dana refers to after mentioning McCartney. Do you remember? and he replied: Thank you for writing and I'm glad you are enjoying the clips. Dana meant Bobby but he said Billy. It was pretty funny and of course made the clip unusable for the movie but we loved it as an outtake which is why it's on our website. All the clips on our website from "Way not Bobby?" are clips that we love from these incredibly talented people but they are not really related to the film.
As for a projected date of completion, I wish we had one. We will make every effort to let you know when and if the film is available for release. In the meantime I hope you enjoy the many outtakes the many talented people we interviewed so far.- Dana is telling a story about Bobby Slayton. The Paul McCartney part is a quick tangent; he says, “It’s kinda like when I met Paul McCartney…” and at the end of the tangent, he says, “So… I think with Billy…” but, as we see, he meant Bobby. |
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Post by Huxleys_halo on Sept 11, 2014 18:21:34 GMT -5
Well, that's their story at least  |
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Post by LOVELYRITA on Sept 20, 2014 20:25:26 GMT -5
For the one recent post about social engineering. Part organic and the rest mind control, Crowley magick, and so much more sordid "stuff".
While the lads who went to Hamburg, much of that stuff going on with mind control, the use of doubles, and putting false memories into the minds of the "alters" used..could be that false "Talent" could be manipulated into others? While this is off the wall, way off, but then, most of the material presented is way off what most people would want to even consider.
While there had been discussions, and even presented in the Winged Beatle about Crowley and pictures of a young crowley looked alot like Faul...made me wonder if part of it was scientific mind control and part Crowley magick to impart "talent" on these boys. Oh yes,the long hours playing in those horrible God-forsaken clubs in the Reeperbahn...supposedly brought them to be really good. Oh, and playing in seedy clubs in England wouldn't have done that? No something darker and creepy happened.
Where they found these doubles that looked like them before they were famous? Hard to tell. What I thought had been replacements right before 1967's presentation of Sgt Peppers All Replacement Band...realizing that doubles were used during their hey day as Mop tops...so looking more into old photos and what others have posted, and realized it took place before fame. Goes to show that these were pre-fabricated players.
And the journey into India was probably indoctrinating from the old order that had been in their system from Hamburg to what they were to become in the latter day Featles.
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