"Glass Onion"

[thefly]

Well here's another clue for you all
The walrus was Paul...

Notice how John says "was" Paul, not "is" Paul.

John says the Walrus "was" Paul. During Magic Mystery Tour, Paul sits at a desk that has a sign that reads "I You Was" which is translated into "I Was You"

But my question, is, does John not want to address Bill as the Walrus? Would that add to some mystery, should John say "The Walrus Is Paul..."

Is to be present, and Was is to past. Or perhaps it was some type of omen, as Lennon would die later on in life, claiming he was the walrus. Perhaps both McCartney and Lennon were the walrus, except Paul was the first to die, and then John says "I was the walrus, but now I'm John." John was the walrus, but perhaps after finding out that character had perished, he decided to return to being him normal self.

It's a back and forth game for John and Paul, was the Walrus a name given to someone, to say "Hey you're going to die first" Or was it simply a joke that had went too far?

[fourthousandholes]

Perhaps only Paul could be the walrus.
Bill couldn't be the walrus.
Why? Because "We're about as close as can be".
(Bill and John weren't all that "tight".)
I think it's related to Lewis Carroll's "The Walrus and the Carpenter."
John was a Lewis Carroll fan.
By saying, "The walrus was Paul", John may have been suggesting "and I was the Carpenter."
And that would have been just a little bit immodest, now wouldn't it?
But he did say, "The way things are going, they're gonna crucify me!"
So...he let you know who he figured he was.
(Not to mention the cover of Abbey Road.)
Of course, John could have just said, "The walrus was Paul, and I am the chicken, and Ringo's the rabbit,
and George is the hippopatamus!"
But that wouldn't have meant much.

In MMT John sang, "I am the walrus", but on the White album he says, "The walrus was Paul",
and on Abbey Road he sings, "Come together! Over me!"

The key is: "I am he
as you are he,
as you are me,
and we are all together."
(Everybody is everybody, and we're 'all one'.)


So even Bill, I suppose, is "he", but in the "I-am-the____"- scheme,
Bill actually has another identity by which he is far better known, imo.
(And you thought being "Faul" was a big deal!)
(And no, it's not, "pleased-to-meet-you-hope-you-guess-my-name",
but you're getting warmer! )

[JoJo]

Welcome 4000H!

The Carpenter means one thing, as you have alluded to, but in the Carroll story, he is the flunky to the evil Walrus who tempts the innocent "oyster children" to his dinner table by promising them "tales of cabbages and kings".

The Walrus and the Carpenter lead the innocent astray, in other words. I was The Walrus, now I'm John.

[plastic paul]

Pray, do tell.

[lili]

Four, are you alluding to the possibility that "Faul" is the anti-christ ? If he is, I'm sure that Satan is mighy disappointed in him. He can be as big a boob as "dubyah" !
Look at the mess he has gotten himself into, by marrying that woman & having a child with her.

[fourthousandholes]

No, but I see now that I've jumped into the quicksand with both feet.
Jojo's comments are right on target.
I'll try to say more later today or tomorrow.

[plastic paul]

Try to say more? Whats stopping you?

[lili]

Four, I didn't mean to come off that harshly. I am the last person to put someone down for what they believe in. I'm also curious as to what else you know.

[fourthousandholes]

plasticpaul said:

Try to say more? Whats stopping you?

Other commitments, that's all, Plasticpaul. Limited time.
Lili, you weren't harsh. What I meant is that by saying what I did
I accidently opened a can of worms.
It's going to be quite difficult for me to explain why Bill is who he is.
Some will be doing this .

[Doc]

fourthousandholes said:

plasticpaul said:

Try to say more? Whats stopping you?

Other commitments, that's all, Plasticpaul. Limited time.
Lili, you weren't harsh. What I meant is that by saying what I did
I accidently opened a can of worms.
It's going to be quite difficult for me to explain why Bill is who he is.
Some will be doing this .

Well then perhaps, don't try to explain it to us in a direct, obvious way. We'll never understand it if you do!

Merely "point at" certain ideas or parallels, using images, idioms, comparisons, and stereotypes (preferably non-racial) and we will get it!

If you can't blurt it out, then "indicate" it!

Be a sketch artist!

[eyesbleed]

fourthousandholes said:

In MMT John sang, "I am the walrus", but on the White album he says, "The walrus was Paul",
and on Abbey Road he sings, "Come together! Over me!"

John may sing "I Am The Walrus" but that shouldn't mean much when you've got Little Nicola replyin' with "NO YOUR NOT"
Who ya gonna believe.... a sweet little girl or John Lennon?

Great post btw!
Of course JPM is the walrus.....
I'm not up on my Lewis Carroll but I think ya'll have nailed it.

[JoJo]

Well, if Disney can't make it easy to grasp, then who can?

Youtube

It's going to be quite difficult for me to explain why Bill is who he is.
Some will be doing this

Nah, not me anyway. I suspect your ideas will be creative/out of the box material. I guess you are afraid they are a little too outta the box, but...what can I say? We've all seen a lot of that, no? If ideas are based in the spirit of creativity, (and are stated either explicitly or implicitly as such) then 'tis cool.

[fourthousandholes]

(Takes a deep breath)
Well, where to start?
I'll keep this as academic as possible, but....

Let's start here: (from the book "The Walrus was Paul" by R. Gray Patterson, p.103)

"During the making of 'Revolution 9,' John Lennon announced to his friend Pete Shotton that he (Lennon) was actually Jesus Christ. This occurred near dawn during an LSD trip. Lennon then called the other Beatles....and immediately broke the news to them. The stunned neodisciples were shocked, and perhaps a little irate, about being disturbed from their sleep by such a revelation. They announced they needed more time to consider this oracle.
Lennon appeared to be sincere in this belief...."

So the poor bastard fancied he was Jesus after taking LSD.
But is that all there is to it?
Let's play along, without necessarily committing to the notion that John was, in fact, Christ. Let's do the "what if" thing.

You know what's strange: The Beatles sure put out a lot of material that seemed to point to them being on that level.
Way early on Paul sang, "Some day you'll look, and see I've gone..."
All those clues: Paul sitting in a trunk on the cover of "Yesterday and Today". It's like they knew what would happen.
But they didn't, it seems. Curious imagery and strongly suggestive song lyrics seemed to be assembled by chance; willy-nilly.

And what else is strange is that the Rolling Stones did the same thing, in a way.
"Hey! You! Get Offa My Cloud!"
Who lives on clouds? Angels. People in heaven.
But Mick would tell you it was just a way of saying "Get out of my space."

I sometimes think about the so-called "Bible code".
Some say it's real. Others say it's a fraud, but the weirdest thing
about it is that it supposedly mentions people like Donald Trump.
So picture this: Moses or whoever is writing away and God says, "Now be sure to put 'Donald Trump' in there!"
And Moses says, "Who?"
"Donald Trump. He's a fat-cat real estate guy in the 21st century."
Moses, doing this , says, "OK, Lord, got it."

You know that didn't happen!
So if Donald Trump shows up in the Bible code, then Moses would
have had to put him in there without knowing it.
He would have had to put him there, well, subconsciously.

I mention this because if a young scholar from, say, China were to evaluate Beatle lyrics and imagery,
he or she would conclude, "Well obviously they were portraying themselves as the characters
in a Christian narrative."
So it may have taken an acid trip for John to make the connection,
but it may have been there all the time on some level.
And at some point, I think they all realized it.
Not that John was Jesus, but that their story was "that story".
I'll end this post and continue.

[plastic paul]

It may be because its 2am where i am and i'm tired and hot, but i'm not really getting what you are trying to say....

Sorry if i seem a little ignorant.

[Doc]

Is this the idea: that sometimes our lives themselves are in effect, real life parables.
We live out a story, we go thru the motions of a loaded narrative, a narrative that has parallel applications to a greater one (or just another one).
And that we do these things like it or not. Sometimes we wake up and realize that we are "walking the script" of a metaphoric existence.

LSD caused John's mind to percieve soem kind of conections to the stories about Jesus life. Of course John himself was not Jesus Christ. And I doubt the parallels were numerous or involved.
But I see a few.

He spoke his mind without fear.

The power elite didn't like him.

The common people delighted to hear him speak.

He spoke in loaded sentences.

He had a distaste for hypocracy.

He became a proponent for peace.

He pointed out injustice.

He didn't like religious hypocracy.

Now I won't list the differences that I feel.

There are extra-scriptural references that indicate that Jesus was fluent on at least one musical instrument of his time and enjoyed music.(And don't say "klesmer", because the clarinet did not appear on the scene until roughly the time of Mozart. Most of that kind of music evolved among Russian and European Jews in the last few hundred years.)

And the image from the movie "Jesus Christ Superstar" where Yvonne Elliman sings "I Don't Know How to Love Him" summons up oddly synchronous visions of Yoko with her hair awash on Lennon's feet. But, let's move on.

But a fascinating concept, 4000 O's.

[fourthousandholes]

This all connects with the idea that the Walrus was Paul;
and I'll show it to you. And who Faul is too.

So imagine that one day the Beatles were all sitting around, and talking about "who they are."
And Paul is the Christ figure. Or John. Whatever.
And they start calling themselves "Jude" and "Thomas" and "Peter". Or "Apollo" and "Zeus" and "Thor".
(God this is hard to put into words! )
And it all just sort of happens; like the bible code.

And at the same time the Stones are sitting around whever they are, and Mick is saying, "Just call me Lucifer".

I can't imagine how it all came together, because you would have to go
with an enormous illuminati plot where all the record companies
are in cahoots, and telling their charges, "OK, you're going to be
Baalzebub, and you're going to be Mary" etc., or -
or- it 'just happened' - but for whatever reason, there were suddenly 'religious' songs and lyrics all over the place.
From Bob Dylan, songs like ,"The Wicked Messenger"
while the BeeGees were singing words like, "I finally died, and started the whole world living", which would suggest a Christ type
person. And everybody was getting into the act: Pink Floyd, the Moody Blues. All talking as if they're God, or close to it.
Soon everybody is represented by some Biblical or religious archetype.
For the sake of brevity I'll discuss Bill. You don't have to believe
what I say.
When Dylan wrote "All Along the Watchtower", and he talks about "the joker" and "the thief", the lyrics point to types of Paul and Bill respectively.
But in the Biblical sense, who was "the thief"?
He was Jesus' last friend on earth. He was the guy hanging on the cross next to Jesus, who said, "This guy in the middle doesn't deserve what happened to him. At least in our case we deserved it. Jesus, put in a good word for me when you get where you're going." And Jesus says, "I tell you this day you will be with me in heaven."
So let's play along and say that John really was Jesus. Or Judas.
And Paul really was Apollo. And the thief...the thief was Bill!
The thief was Jesus's buddy. John's friend, in our "make believe" scenario.
Maybe true. Maybe not.

Let's talk about "The Walrus and the Carpenter".
JoJo has rightly said, they were self-serving con artists who misled the oysters to their death. (Read the poem if you haven't.)
www.birdsnest.com/walrus.htm
"I told you about the walrus and me,
how we're about as close as can be."
Did you notice that when thefly started this thread, he knew who the walrus was?
Not Paul; death! For some reason everybody has heard that the walrus is a symbol of death in some culture somewhere or something.
If John is using the poem "The Walrus and the Carpenter" to describe his relationship to Paul on one level, how about this on another:
Death is close to Christ; about as close as can be.
Here's why: when you die, you supposedly go to heaven or hell.
In the Christian belief, that trip from earth to the beyond would not have been able to happen if Christ had not died. There would be no eternal life to be had either in heaven or elsewhere, because you would never be born as a spirit after your physical life.
Now in fact, the cart is before the horse here, but it's not relevant to what I want to point out.
What is an "eggman"?
At it's most simple, it's a man who hasn't been hatched, yes?
When our life is over, you die. Some say that's all there is.
Others say that when you die as a physical being, you are born into the spirit realm.
An eggman (a physical man) hasn't been born yet into the spirit world. And he never would be, some say, if Christ hadn't died,
which allowed for the door to open so that a person living as a spiritual egg could be born, at death, into the spirit world.
So the song "I am the Walrus" is about spiritual birth, and the
"I am he as you are he, and you are me, and we are ALL TOGETHER is John saying, "Yes, I'm Christ, and you are, and we are family."
And finally we get to JoJo's original post!
John "woke up" one morning, and said, "Hey!
Who am I to think I'm anybody special?
I'm just a mortal! I can't be responsible for the spiritual condition
of all these people! I don't want to lead anybody astray.
OMG, what have I been doing?! I just want to be me!"
Yes! "I was the walrus, but now, I'm John. The dream is over."

Or is it?

[fourthousandholes]

Reply #14 on Today at 9:26pm » Doc wrote:
"Is this the idea: that sometimes our lives themselves are in effect, real life parables.
We live out a story, we go thru the motions of a loaded narrative, a narrative that has parallel applications to a greater one (or just another one).
And that we do these things like it or not. Sometimes we wake up and realize that we are "walking the script" of a metaphoric existence."

BINGO!

Geez Doc, you could have saved me all that trouble... !

[plastic paul]

Well i'm kinda getting it now, but it maybe seems a bit far fetched, i'm not sold yet, but keeping an open mind to be convinced 4K!!!

[lili]

Isn't Doc a riot ? He's our resident genius to the 'nth degree ! ;D
I have to admit that I just skimmed what you wrote, four. As I'm getting older, I seem to be developing the attention span of a gerbil.

[fourthousandholes]

I guess the short version is this:

Ordinarily if someone claimed to be Jesus after doing acid, you would just think he was delusional, but John was such a genius, and was committed so strongly to what he felt the mission was, that his subsequent work actually bears up under careful scrutiny, and strangely enough, it is in keeping with a popular notion of the time, that rock musicians could speak with the voice of angels.
This notion itself is peculiar in that there does not seem to have been any underlying organised effort to bring it forth. When it is considered in conjunction with the whole PWR/PID mystery, one has to seriously consider whether, on some level, the "nutty notions" of rock musicians of that era was, in fact, an expression of a higher consciousness that not even they could bring themselves to believe they were part of.
(Doc's explanation is far more eloquent and to the point.)

[luvleerita]

The "I am he as you are me and so on and so forth" sounds like the Three Muskateers, "all for one and one for all". It also reminds me of pantheism where everyone is god and god is in everything.
When they all become one..in John Lennon's imagine...the New World Order...and Age of Aquarius where the New Age Messiah, their Lord Matreya comes to bring peace and unity. But little do the New World Order proponents are really worshipping the anti-Christ.

If John is a type of their messiah, and Yoko was his mary magdalene, and we have a DaLennon code. Is Sean their promised seed of deliverance? Was Bill supposed to be their John the Baptist type in ushering in the call to repent?

If Mick Jagger represents Satan, and Keith Richards is the beast, and Bob Dylan is the false prophet, we will see signs and wonders....or perhaps Chaos and Creation.....

...which reminds me, this announcement, Creation 2006 was cancelled due to rain. For those who planned on attending this event, nothing can be created because of rain...? "nobody told me there'd be days like these. Strange Days indeed." John Lennon...the eggman, the walrus, the prophet, the messiah of strangeness....a poet, a troubadour, the man from Atlantis who came and enlightened us, but returned to the nether world leaving us with an ecclectic collection of clues as to the man of lawlessness who replaced JPM and has become an entity in himself, if not just an oddity. A space oddity...

The eggman has not yet been hatched into eternity, but we will await with baited breath.

Pass the grass and we'll look into the glass onion and see into the future.

[beatlies]

"I am he as you are he as you me" comes from the opening line of "Marching to Pretoria," a song of British imperialism. Even the melody of I am the Walrus sounds similar to that song on this opening line, as it sounds like a march, in step with the muted police-siren like electric keyboard notes that are the prelude.

Wikipedia says:

The song's opening line, "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together", clearly parodies the opening line of the song Marching to Pretoria, by The Weavers: "I'm with you and you're with me and we are all together." This is a remarkably little-noted fact.

[Doc]

This has been a lovely, "melting pot" of thoughts here on this thread. Thanks to each and every one of you who contributed. What good things have been written!



As for the rest of you, thanks for staying the hell out of the way. Please don't start interfering now. It wouldn't be any good for the feeble and dim out there to start gumming up the works in this philosophic parade of intellectual depths.


OK, OK, lol I AM KIDDING!!!!!....... (about the second paragraph.......)
I myself am one of the dim, happy to have a place to cogitate..........

[lili]

I am so glad to have four here with us. He seems to be a man of deep thought, just like our beloved "Doc". ;D

[fourthousandholes]

Uh, thanks. I'll try to live up to my billing....