Paul's height increase part 2

[DarkHorse]

Here are two pics of Paul and George standing next to each other. The one on the left is from the Ed Sullivan show in '64. The one on the right is from the Revolution video in '68. See how the height in the left picture is the same where as in the right picture Faul looks some 2 inches taller than George! And Faul's head is looking down! Also, notice how much broader Faul's shoulders look compared to George in the right pic and on the left pic they are about the same size or slightly bigger.

[Red Lion]

DarkHorse said:

Faul looks some 2 inches taller than George! And Faul's head is looking down! Also, notice how much broader Faul's shoulders look compared to George

Bingo! Good work DH. Faul looks to be 20-30lbs heavier than JP as well.

[kazu]

But it is still hard to tell, because the image on the right appears to have not been taken at a level angle. Also, the image on the left... can you tell me which Ed Sullivan appearance it was from. In one of the appearances, Paul was not wearing the same boots as John and George, or Ringo. Everyone had pionty boots with tall (At least 2 inch) heels, except for Paul, who had round tipped boots with no high heel.

[DarkHorse]

kazu said:

But it is still hard to tell, because the image on the right appears to have not been taken at a level angle.

It looks level to me(look at John and George's shoes). Not perfect, but about as good as you are gonna get. John is standing further away from George and still looks the same height. Faul is standing RIGHT NEXT to George and is significantly taller.

Also, the image on the left... can you tell me which Ed Sullivan appearance it was from. In one of the appearances, Paul was not wearing the same boots as John and George, or Ringo. Everyone had pionty boots with tall (At least 2 inch) heels, except for Paul, who had round tipped boots with no high heel.

Which apearance are you talking about?

This one is from the third Ed Sullivan appearance, which was taped at the same time as the first appearance, but was aired 2 weeks later on February 23, 1964. I've seen the whole performance and Paul was wearing the exact same boots.

[revolver]

I've got to admit I'm getting taller,
a little taller all the time...

[matchbox]

The fact that there are so many examples that don't consistently show one conclusion regarding height would tend to suggest that small changes in camera angles can make a big difference in the perceived height of the subjects.




Mr. Postman video


Royal Variety Performance

[kazu]

I already explain all this on my site.

www.paulisnotdead.com/index-2.php?secct=pind&toppic=pind&subbt=photos&pagge=4

In the image used by DH, George is not as close to the camera as Paul. Even a 6-10 inch difference from the camera can cause this effect in 2 grown men. The camera is lower than head level. This is why someone a few inches back seems shorter. In the image provided by MB, George steps forward with his left foot. Looking at his position to Paul and the microphone, he is more in line with Paul now. They are suddenly closer to the same height.

As far as Paul being broader than George, that's a given. In the Ed Sullivan show (And everywhere else) Paul is broader. It is more apparent when you see them standing next to Ed talking to him. Find the interview where Paul is on the far left.

Ok. I tried to get a point of reference. The amplifier in the middle is a Fender Twin Reverb Guitar Amplifier (neccessary to play Revolution). It is supposed to be 19.87 X 26.5 inches looking at it from the front. In the image provided by DH, the amplifier is too wide. Also, John's guitar is not symetrical, like it is supposed to be. Paul's bass body is too long. The image is not giving true to life proportions. I can't comment on anything with these images.

[FlamingPie]

matchbox said:

^ Reminds me of the rooftop performance in Let It Be. ;D

[DarkHorse]

Well all I can say is that if you've watched the videos you can see that Paul and George and John are the same height in the Ed Sullivan performance and Paul looks taller and bigger in the Revolution video. If you've seen those and still can't see a height difference then no amount of stills I post, or anyone for that matter, will make a difference to you.

In the two bottom pics matchbox posted, the quality is very bad and it's hard to tell if that's their actual height or stretching because of bad quality. I've seen both of those videos and Paul and George look the same height(Paul is maybe 1/2 inch taller than George) and yet you've managed to catch a still where Paul looks taller. The quality of the stills I posted is much better and clearer.

[matchbox]

DarkHorse said:

The quality of the stills I posted is much better and clearer.

To be fair, the quality of the stills you posted was much smaller, not clearer.

[eyesbleed]

DarkHorse said:

If you've seen those and still can't see a height difference then no amount of stills I post, or anyone for that matter, will make a difference to you.

Besides the height difference, what's most noticable to me is the overall difference in build & stature.
People don't remember what a slight build JPM was.
This guy here is bigger in every way, it's a totally different body.


Well DH, I know what ya mean. I've been more amazed at how so few folks will acknowledge the differences in facial features, especially listening to the PID box set, everybody's dwelling on all these creepy clues buried in songs & plastered on album covers & not one radio show brings up the differences in appearance....
None of them.

But people see what they wanna see......
Or what their brain will allow them to see.

[matchbox]

eyesbleed said:

But people see what they wanna see......
Or what their brain will allow them to see.

Agreed.

[kazu]

It seems to be that Paul has always been wider than George. Here is an example. It also appears that he is a little taller, but that could be because he may be a little closer to the camera. But then again, it is easier to see that in this image. The first revolution still is too obscured to see their feel clearly, though the second one is not.



If Paul is bigger because of that, then I can only deduce that being inches closer to the camera can make a dramatic difference in apparent size. This is a common fact used by photographers and movie directors everywhere, so it's not like I am pulling this out of my sleeve or anything.

[LarryC]

I think DarkHorse is most likely correct about Paul's boots in the Sullivan Show, just by looking at the way the heel on his right boot appears to be pronating a bit...but there are photos from those earlier times where you can see the profile of his boots and they did not have the tall cuban-style heel like the others.

From what I can recall of both the Sullivan performances and the Revolution video, they were much more animated as they played on the Sullivan show than in the Revolution video. But just the same they were moving when they played...and more than likely there was some vertical movement along with horizontal movement. My point is that these pics are frame grabs taken from a moving picture. It would be best to use still shots where they are posing because there would be no movement in any direction.

To go along with what kazu said about the angle of the shot...he did not mean it was a level shot on a horizontal reference...what he was referring to is that the Revolution shot is made with the camera more on the level of the stage instead of a more elevated shot like the Sullivan show. The Sullivan shot appears to have been shot from slightly above head-level, whereas the Revolution shot was taken more even with their waistlines. Slight variances in camera angles can have a profound impact, especially if one of them, like George for example, is not standing as close to the camera as say like Paul or John.

Poor Ringo is getting left totally out here, guys! He looks great sitting in his trap in both shots. GOOO RINGOOOO, GOOOO!

[kazu]

I will go see if I can find the shot I mentioned about the Ed Sullivan Show and Paul's boots. In one scene, they are putting down their guitars and Paul turns sideways. His does not seem to have the same hels as the other 3. They walk one by one to the side of the stage. They all walk a similar path in the same lighting. Everyone else's heels are obvious as you can see the light shining under the boot because the heel is so tall and thin. no light shines under paul's boot, even sideways.

I will go find it and post stills after I get home.

[DarkHorse]

kazu said:

I will go see if I can find the shot I mentioned about the Ed Sullivan Show and Paul's boots. In one scene, they are putting down their guitars and Paul turns sideways. His does not seem to have the same hels as the other 3. They walk one by one to the side of the stage. They all walk a similar path in the same lighting. Everyone else's heels are obvious as you can see the light shining under the boot because the heel is so tall and thin. no light shines under paul's boot, even sideways.

I will go find it and post stills after I get home.

I watched the whole thing the other day and you really can't get a shot of the side of Paul's boot. There are a few times but it's only for a split second. However, Paul is wearing those boots(or similar) in the first concert played in DC and you can see the heels and you can see his height is the same as John's and George's.

[kazu]

Because of a different post, i searched on Gettyimages for Paul mccartney. There were too many to post here, and they all have a gettyimages watermark across them. I found him standing straight upright next to Bill Clinton. Clinton is 6'2". I could not see their shoes. Paul was at least 3 inches shorter that Bill clinton in that image. In another he was standing straight upright next to Billy Joel. Billy Joel is 5'7". Paul was about 4-5 inches taller.
I also looked up Colin Powell. He is listed officially as 6'2" like Bill Clinton.
Now why is this important? An image of Colin Powell standing next to Paul was used to demonstrate that Paul was too tall to be really Paul because he was too close in height to Colin Powell.
Well on Gettyimages, I found Paul next to Bill Clinton, and Paul seemed to be about 5'11".
I also found images of Colin powell standing next to Bill Clinton. Although they are supposed to be the same height, Bill Clinton is noticably taller. In a full body shot, he does not appear to be wearing any special or tall shoes. I believe Colin Powell is not 6'2", or he has lost height due to spinal compression or some other age related factor.

[Red Lion]

Cant say these are the same boots, but the heel is indeed healthy.

[kazu]

I'm only talking about one performance. The height thing is really a red herring, though. I mean. people move around. How can we judge them unless we place them back against a wall.

[JoJo]

Here's another try at it. (why not) In this alt version of Hello Goodbye, We have the camera at a little above the stage level, and pointed at Paul and George. In this animated gif, Paul is bouncing up and down. Thing is, when he's at his highest, he's standing on his heels, which would tend to display your correct height. (try it) George doesn't move much, he shifts between standing with one leg slightly bent while keeping the other one straight, shifting back and forth. Not saying he's standing up straight exactly, but it's not with the bent knees we see in a number of videos like Kazu is talking about. (sorry about the large file size)



Here's Paul captured standing on his heels:



Standing flat on the ground, and does it look like Paul is standing lower, or in some kind of depression?



An explanation for that from the much clearer Anthology video, apparently the stage is made of wood, but there is something placed in the middle on which they stand. It appears to slope off at the sides.



And lastly let's take a bow:

[Deleted]

EXCELLENT JOJO!
THANKYOU!

[ecenzo1]

While viewing the clip, I noticed this: George is playing his Epiphone Casino with slightly rounded, huntched-over shoulders. He's not standing completely upright.(The Casino is a wide-bodied guitar. George's right arm is well-over, with the top of the guitar tucked into his right arm-pit. It's a more comfortable position when playing a guitar of this body type than the low-slung position associated with solid body electrics like the Stratocaster and the Les Paul) Regardless of Paul's up and down movements, this clip is not an accurate standard to judge Paul's height by because George's playing style is not totally upright. Consequently, Paul's height relative to George is not accurate.

[JoJo]

One last thing that needed to be done, a similar scene with pre 67 Paul and George. Just got my Help DVD in the mail, and this is as good a one as any. Here they are doing "You're Gonna Lose That Girl" in the studio, and first, let's get the "shoe issue" out of the way. Neither are wearing the pointy boots, just regular walking shoes it looks.



I'll show an animation in a sec, but here is the one frame where George is hunched over his guitar, while Paul stands up straight. Paul looks a little taller, but it really is only an inch or so. Also, I'd say it's very apparent that Paul in "Hello Goodbye" is standing on the lower part of an incline. You may speculate as to why, I'm sure you know my opinion. The post 66 Paul is a big guy, or at least bigger than the pre 67 version.



Here's the animation, and I again apologise to the dial up folks, it weighs in at 2.5 MB.

[Morph]

DarkHorse said:

Here are two pics of Paul and George standing next to each other. The one on the left is from the Ed Sullivan show in '64. The one on the right is from the Revolution video in '68. See how the height in the left picture is the same where as in the right picture Faul looks some 2 inches taller than George! And Faul's head is looking down! Also, notice how much broader Faul's shoulders look compared to George in the right pic and on the left pic they are about the same size or slightly bigger.

Look at how much higher Faul holds that Hofner. Like he's trying to hide behind it. heh...

[matchbox]

Morph said:

Look at how much higher Faul holds that Hofner. Like he's trying to hide behind it. heh...

Must be John was also replaced. He's holding his guitar much higher too.