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Post by carman on Feb 14, 2009 0:17:28 GMT -5
SOS? Now that's really filling in the gaps. I think I understand your drift. The Beatles were afraid they were in big trouble with ? CIA ? Nixon. Ok, I too believe they were afraid of the powers to be, but only because they were using their popularity to instigate a massive social movement. I don't think the government ever figured their plan out. I don't believe the CIA killed John Lennon either. I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories. I only believe what makes obvious sense. If the government wanted to get rid of John Lennon it would have been during this period. He was also addicted to heroin at this time so it would have been very easy to fake an OD. I still believe what I wrote. Yes, it was dangerous and risky. My guess is that it was primarily John's plan. I don't think Paul was as enthusiastic about it. It never came off because the sixties died with the Altamont festival and the nutty Charley Manson. After that we all learned the sad lesson that "love is not all you need".
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Post by FP on Feb 14, 2009 1:37:10 GMT -5
We all love Ringo but know he wasn't the most creative Beatle. Let's give him the credit for "a little help from my friends" anyway, the others got their share. Give him credit anyway? I don't recommend being so loose about facts, not even the small ones, if you're trying to get people to take this whole thing seriously.
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Post by carman on Feb 14, 2009 2:09:52 GMT -5
Wow! You people are tough! I don't think I ever said Ringo wrote the song. Let's move on to the important stuff.
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Post by iameye on Feb 14, 2009 7:44:13 GMT -5
Carman, I said it's unreadable because the format is cumbersome to navigate. I seriously recommend a better book format for presentation. I got annoyed and stopped reading. You can't even skim it with out scrolling thru 9000 pages. Content is totally lost. The SOS graphic I made was just to point out that you noticed the "o" you are "adding" to "Beatles" ...but you ignored a "s" of equal caliber. It could mean a few things.... nice right angle And as JoJo pointed out, there is indeed a Greek island story, so at least don't mention it if you don't know
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Post by eyesbleed on Feb 14, 2009 9:04:24 GMT -5
Carman wrote: "You see, if you read the book he may as well shut down the forum all together, because you will no longer believe for a second that Paul McCartney really died (not in body anyway.)"Well I read the book, and I don't concur with that statement. I fully understand your take on it, Carman, but there still is a possibility that Paul may have really died, and that you aren't aware of it. Or he may have simply left the group: "He bag production." (He said "Screw this; I'm out of here!") I do not agree with your assessment that Paul "looks the same today as he ever did." I'll give you a challenge, Carman. You wrote about the lyrics for "Blue Jay Way" in your book. You didn't, however, address why George was worried that he "might be asleep" in the song. You see, he was still fairly young when the song came out. Why would he be worried about being "asleep" (dead)? I would suggest that perhaps the time element of his expectation exceeded just a few short years. (starts singing) "There's more to the picture, than meets the eye..."[/color] [/quote] 1. a large number of us here came to the conclusion a long time ago that Pauls death was figurative not literal. Although about half of the members here will disagree with that. But that has been a subject of debate for a long time. 2. a large number of us also understand that the whole PID thing put out there in the late 60's was only the first layer of the onion, there's lots more going on here...... many layers just like an onion. The deeper you peel away, the stinkier it gets. PID is just covering something else. 3. I've been on plenty of real "trips" back in the late 60's early 70's & you are correct that it was a totally different substance from what passes as so-called "LSD" nowdays. This has also been discussed here. Granted, I wouldn't expect you to spend a month reading old threads around here before posting, but I think you'd be surprised if you did, that's all.
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Post by pauliedied on Feb 14, 2009 10:28:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the book! i think its a good and interesting read. and there is a lot of work in it... Well done and thanks Carman
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Post by JoJo on Feb 14, 2009 11:22:29 GMT -5
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Post by carman on Feb 14, 2009 12:05:20 GMT -5
What I'm finding out here is that we agree on a lot of issues and that's OK with me, I'm not here to argue, we all want the truth. The format of my book leaves a lot to be desired and that's mostly a technical problem. For that, I need professional help and I'm not going to invest a lot of money without a return. Another thing I've learned here is I guess times are tough and people are careful about spending. The only way the format will change is if a real publisher decides it's worth the investment to turn this into something salable in a book store. I'm not sure that's going to happen. At some point I may give it a try but I'm not 'betting the farm' on it. Actually, it's just a great feeling of accomplishment to me that I've expressed ideas I've carried around in my head since the sixties. I've never discussed these with anyone before. I know that many people on this forum have been studying these questions as well. I did not read your ideas first because I don't want to be influenced by them. I want to keep my mind clear and take an unaffected view. For instance the ' s ' on the cover was not a part of my memory from the sixties. I believe that the Beatles or people they were working with decided how to get people searching. The Leso island thing would never have been born so soon without their help and they never brought attention to the 's'. I think they were in control of spreading the rumors. So, in my mind anything that people came up with later was not part of the Beatles original strategy and I don't incorporate it into my analysis.
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Post by carman on Feb 14, 2009 12:11:56 GMT -5
By the way, if anyone sees a typo or grammatical error, don't think it petty to pont it out. I'm my own editor and that's not a good way to do this.
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Post by plastic paul on Feb 15, 2009 7:57:30 GMT -5
Bye the way, if anyone sees a typo or grammatical error, don't think it petty to pont it out. I'm my own editor and that's not a good way to do this. OK. It is supposed to be "by the way", not "bye the way." Just "ponting" it out, sorry pointing it out. Anyway, it turns out that what you said has been pretty much discussed here in the past and still is being discussed, so, err, yeah, thanks for all your work but it really wasn't quite as groundbreaking as you made out. I'm just surprised that all our tiny minds could handle the truth! Well personally I disagree with your version of the truth, I have my own ideas, as does every single member of this forum, and that's why, having read your "book" the forum is still here, gasp! And you said there would no longer be a need for this forum? Au contraire my friend, you have just given more fuel to the fire, and for that I am very grateful.
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Post by JoJo on Feb 15, 2009 10:30:06 GMT -5
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Post by iameye on Feb 15, 2009 11:54:44 GMT -5
Museum of Hoaxes AND a typo
you are all too much Carman
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Post by carman on Feb 15, 2009 12:01:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the Bye thing. I wasn't a 'world-beater' in school either. What I meant by this forum wouldn't be needed was in it's purpose to search and prove that Paul physically died. If after reading my book, you still believe that, then what can I say? You can't force people to change their thinking if what they really want is to engage in endless investigation and conjecture.
As for me, I'm satisfied with what I've concluded the Beatles were trying to do. What more do we want, need or expect from them? At some point we need to stop examining them and start examining ourselves. That what they were telling us.
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Post by skyward on Feb 15, 2009 14:51:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the Bye thing. I wasn't a 'world-beater' in school either. What I meant by this forum wouldn't be needed was in it's purpose to search and prove that Paul physically died. If after reading my book, you still believe that, then what can I say? You can't force people to change their thinking if what they really want is to engage in endless investigation and conjecture. As for me, I'm satisfied with what I've concluded the Beatles were trying to do. What more do we want, need or expect from them? At some point we need to stop examining them and start examining ourselves. That what they were telling us. This needs repeating, The title of this forum is 'Paul Was Replaced', so I think the idea is that some are open to the idea that JPM was replaced... I wouldn't say that this is a hard core Paul is Dead forum, though some here do think that way. I guess you'd rename the fourm, 'Paul is Dead, figuratively'. That has been tossed around here, as some have pointed out. I don't know why you opted to come here so presumptuous about what we all know or don't know and how your insight renders this forum moot and defunct. I suppose it's part of the hype, but it is bluntly and broadly dismissive, what with placing everyone beneath the wisdom you have gleaned in your own research.
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Post by carman on Feb 15, 2009 15:28:20 GMT -5
I apologize for challenging your sense of purpose. I really don't care whether Paul is alive, dead or just an illusion. I just care about what the Beatles tell us in their music. If no one else on this forum does , then you're right I don't belong here.
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Post by skyward on Feb 15, 2009 16:11:49 GMT -5
I apologize for challenging your sense of purpose. I really don't care whether Paul is alive, dead or just an illusion. I just care about what the Beatles tell us in their music. If no one else on this forum does , then you're right I don't belong here. Carman, if you weren't presumptuous, you would understand that many people here feel the same as you. This forum has tackled many topics, ideas, theories, etc. that range from the trivial to the fantastical and they span across the entire Beatles spectrum, it isn't just limited to PID. Lots of people have taken the time to ponder lyrics and movies and cartoons and videos and interviews and artwork and just about anything else linked to the Beatles. You have deduced your own theory and in that regard, you are not much different than any other member who posts here. The difference is that members, here, don't tell other members that their input is no longer warranted because their's is 'the definitive be all end all.' I don't mean to knock your investigative efforts.
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Post by carman on Feb 15, 2009 16:34:13 GMT -5
I'm content to know that my book is available to anyone who wants to read it. Once again, I thank JoJo for not banning me. If members agree with what I've presented that's fine. If they disagree, that's OK. I'm not that hard to get along with, but we all need to decide what we want to spend our time on. I really can't add much more to the forum because my book is the compilation of all I care about. (at least as concerns the Beatles).
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Post by P(D)enny La(i)ne on Feb 15, 2009 17:06:18 GMT -5
I'm content to know that my book is available to anyone who wants to read it. Once again, I thank JoJo for not banning me. If members agree with what I've presented that's fine. If they disagree, that's OK. I'm not that hard to get along with, but we all need to decide what we want to spend our time on. I really can't add much more to the forum because my book is the compilation of all I care about. (at least as concerns the Beatles). Carman, I think that you should seriously consider familiarizing yourself with the work of this forum. As skyward (and others during the course of this thread) has already explained, NIR is lucky enough to have several brilliant people investigating the PWR phenomenon from almost every conceivable angle. The problem that I have had with your approach here is that you obviously spent zero time acquainting yourself with our work before you determined that it was all irrelevant, and that we all needed to *see the light* of YOUR work. You were pretty condescending right out of the gate, and in order to show you why you got the reaction that you did, I've compiled a collection of your own words: "If I give it out for free, many of the people who read it will not put the time in to think seriously about what I'm saying, and yes this does require some thinking.
It's far too important to me to give it away to the people who just want to judge without doing any serious analysis."
"I've come to the conclusion that most Beatle forum members don't really want to know the truth, they are either afraid of it or have too much invested in the trivia and myths. This website will make no sense after you read my book. Well, actually Paul did die but not how you think he did. Look, it's time to move on."
"I'll reiterate, when you read this book you need to do some serious listening and thinking. I've put together a mental picture from many divergent sources. Some from people on the Sgt. Peppers album cover. These people were picked for a reason. You too will need to construct the total picture. You will read my lyric interpretations and need to listen again to each song. You will hear these songs for the first time. This takes effort, open mindedness and the courage to dismiss much of what thought about the Beatles."
"Ok, keep your three bucks, spend it on a latte in starbucks or something. I hope at least I got some brain cells firing. Now we can all go back to our lives of quiet desperation."
"You see, if you read the book he may as well shut down the forum all together, because you will no longer believe for a second that Paul McCartney really died (not in body anyway.) JoJo, maybe we can redirect the focus of the forum from myth to truth. But, the truth is scary, especially once we acknowledge it then we need to do what the "fool on the hill" wants us to do."
"I really don't care whether Paul is alive, dead or just an illusion. I just care about what the Beatles tell us in their music. If no one else on this forum does" Now, if you've read the above, and take the time to examine our work, I think you'll understand why you got the reaction that you did. I've read about half of your book so far, and in all honesty, it's really difficult for me to get past the spelling, grammar, and formatting problems that some have already mentioned. Having said that however, I also must say that I think you're closing yourself off from 95% of the rabbit hole that is the PWR phenomenon. I do believe that the Beatles were expressing the idea of spiritual death and rebirth, and that they were even sometimes tying it in with LSD, but it goes so much deeper than that, and your seemingly stubborn refusal to acknowledge that others may have something to contribute will prevent you from seeing the bigger picture. So again, please take some time to look into our work. I suggest starting with the "Best of NIR" threads. If after that, you still question our dedication to knowing the truth, or believe that we have too much invested in trivia, then by all means, go away. I believe that you'll feel differently, though. Best of NIR: invanddis.proboards29.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=5118
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Post by carman on Feb 15, 2009 19:08:10 GMT -5
OK, I'll make a deal with you. I'll spend time reading through the forum so you probably won't hear from me for a while. I know how to be ojective. As far as my book, I've stated many times I am not a professional writer and you're looking at work in progress. I am making corrections every day. I can't believe that it's really that difficult to read. Maybe your being overly critical or have taken a defensive stance. I will tell you this, I have ventured into other areas of the forum and what I read I found to be absurd. I hope there is more to learn or we will end this disliking each other very much because I am not deterred by people not liking me.
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Post by B on Feb 15, 2009 20:18:05 GMT -5
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Post by carman on Feb 16, 2009 2:10:30 GMT -5
OK, I tried, I really did. It would be better if I say nothing, I really like you people. Thank you for your time.
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Post by 65if2007 on Feb 16, 2009 14:18:36 GMT -5
I apologize for challenging your sense of purpose. I really don't care whether Paul is alive, dead or just an illusion. I just care about what the Beatles tell us in their music. If no one else on this forum does , then you're right I don't belong here. Oh shoot; everyone "knows" what the Beatles "tell us in their music". "What the Beatles tell us in their music" is always in the eye of the beholder. It's always in the eye of whoever purports to interpet for them. Isn't that right? In your case, isn't it a fact that the ideas, concepts, and values that "the Beatles tell us in their music" bear a remarkable similarity to your own ideas, concepts, and values?
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JS2
For Sale
Goo Goo G'Joob etc.
Posts: 192
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Post by JS2 on Feb 16, 2009 14:21:21 GMT -5
Aye, as John said, "There is no specific 'Turn me on, dead man' or anything like that. Whatever you want to be there, is there." (Something along those lines.)
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Post by 65if2007 on Feb 16, 2009 14:31:40 GMT -5
Well, I meant that "what the Beatles tell us in their music is in the eye of the beholder" in terms of larger themes.
"Number Nine" certainly backmasks into "Turn Me On, Dead Man". Even a skeptical Russ Gibb heard it and was "freaked out" by it.
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Post by B on Feb 17, 2009 19:52:28 GMT -5
Still....it's not as if The Beatles were the only ones espousing tripping: Amboy Dukes, The Journey to the Center of the Mindwww.youtube.com/watch?v=UN2VNFpiGWoOK, I admit....I just wanted an excuse to post this video! Check out Ted Nugent as Gumby! (What's with his eyes?!)
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